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If Hell is Unfair... Then so is Heaven.

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posted on Sep, 26 2008 @ 11:07 AM
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Originally posted by Freeborn
If you can't agree amongst yourselves on something that is such an important part of your faith how are you going to convince anyone else?


Look closely at the thread. Not a single Christian has made such a claim that we get to sin all we want. This accusation stemmed from non-Christians saying this is a 'sin-all-we-want' free pass. All of the Christians are saying it is not. In fact, we all agree that we are called to a higher standard after accepting Jesus.

[edit on 9/26/2008 by AshleyD]




posted on Sep, 26 2008 @ 05:01 PM
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freeborn Ashley is right, but this is where protestants and Catholics seperate.

Some protestants believe once saved you can't lose it, and Catholics believe the aposite.

You got to remember freeborn that Catholics and protestants are very different.

peace.



posted on Sep, 26 2008 @ 05:07 PM
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Notyourtypical you have to realize it was the 1611 KJV with the mass translation errors in it and pagan symbols all throughout the book. because satan created the revolt and this revolt created denomination after denomination. God made one hierarchy to interpret scripture and lose and bind things on earth,


Now as for.

" I sin daily do you "

You bet. I suck.

But that's not the point, only Miraim understood me.


I mean the sins called (mortal) sins. Not venial sins which are the lesser sins of imperfection. if you commit mortal sins daily like cursing your mother out, lust, ect... thern you are a christian fall away and not saved at all.


those sins are what god calls in scripture sins unto death. but the lesser sins people can commit like saying a bad word and those sins are not what i'm talking about.


peace.



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 09:53 AM
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Originally posted by JesusisTruth

freeborn Ashley is right, but this is where protestants and Catholics seperate.

Some protestants believe once saved you can't lose it, and Catholics believe the aposite.

You got to remember freeborn that Catholics and protestants are very different.

peace.


You're right, some believe salvation is by the grace of God alone, not based on works less any man should boast. Others think that they are saved based on their efforts.

One side of the coin admits we are helpless to redeem ourselves, and only by the grace and mercy of God can we be saved, the other side of the coin says we are the only ones who can save us, by following all the rules of the law.

One problem though... No one can possibly follow the law since 70 A.D.

There isn't a temple anymore.



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 09:58 AM
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Originally posted by JesusisTruth

Notyourtypical you have to realize it was the 1611 KJV with the mass translation errors in it and pagan symbols all throughout the book. because satan created the revolt and this revolt created denomination after denomination. God made one hierarchy to interpret scripture and lose and bind things on earth,




One can only claim the KJV has massive translation errors in it, if one judges it based upon the minority text. The majority text (5,000+ manuscripts), agree with it 95% of the time.

I guess someone could say that, if they hold the KJV against the minority text, the same text the church at Antioch rejected as corrupt, the same text born in pagan Alexandria Egypt, the same text Westcott and Hort used to come up with their perversions.

When the KJV is held up against the majority text, or the Textus Receptus it is the only modern translation that sticks to the majority text.



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 12:03 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
You're right, some believe salvation is by the grace of God alone, not based on works less any man should boast. Others think that they are saved based on their efforts.


or there are people who believe in a balance. that while no man can earn salvation, jesus only applies grace to those he feels are trying.

james 2:9 should be enough to see that just believing isnt enough



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 12:42 PM
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Originally posted by miriam0566

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
You're right, some believe salvation is by the grace of God alone, not based on works less any man should boast. Others think that they are saved based on their efforts.


or there are people who believe in a balance. that while no man can earn salvation, jesus only applies grace to those he feels are trying.

james 2:9 should be enough to see that just believing isnt enough


??

James 2:9: "But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors."

That means if you favor someone over another based on some aspect, i.e. wealth, then you violate the law. Perhaps you mean a different verse.

Check out James 2:10:

"For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all."

None of us are capibl to keep the law, we have all failed. So it doesn't matter how often we keep the law today, we have failed it before.

Is that a liscense to sin freely? Of course not, we are to obey as best we can, salvation cannot be lost, but rewards most certainly can.

Case in point: Was the thief on the cross justified by works or by faith? He was together with the Lord forever because he had faith in Jesus as the only Son of God. Faith alone. He wasn't baptized, he didn't take communion. He had saving faith in Jesus Christ alone.

Did the thief have rewards upon death? Most likely not, but he wasn't going to hell.



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 12:49 PM
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" he didn't have communion "

Yea but he didn't have the chance to recieve communion. He recieved a spiritual communion. But God did impliment the sacrafice and told all the apostles to do this in memory of me until the end of the world which we still do.


faith alone is not enough because what is faith? Faith means doing the law which means dilligence which means works. So faith is works and likewise works are faith. hand in hand as scripture says over and over.


peace.



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 02:37 PM
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the hypocrosy of a non Christian is astounding

Firstly thankyou OP for that vid, nice!

why do Non Christians

a) spout about Christians and love yet are not able to forgive?

b) seek equality for everyone and yet grade each individual and their worthiness?

c) express a desire to live and let live and yet so easily condemn?

d) deride us for using discernment and yet so readily judge others?

Christ came for the sinners and this is a gift to us by the grace of God.
you cannot change the criteria as it given to us by the almighty. Amen for Grace and thankyou Lord. because without it, just as in my earthly life, i would fail completely. I could never notch up the worthy points. my scales would so easily tilt against me despite the weight of any good works. My thoughts alone would condemn me.

david



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 03:09 PM
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reply to post by AshleyD
 


hello

could i quote from Isaiah 65:1 because without a single doubt i belive that every single person will hear the truth.

Isaiah 65:1 KJV

I am sought of them that asked not for me; I am found of them that sought me not: I said, Behold me, behold me, unto a nation that was not called by my name.

Romans 10:18 KJV

But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

we imagine a human only type intervention, we often forget the power of God

we can forget incidents such as Baalam's ass and we forget the angels and the shepherds. God doesn't need us to fulfill his promises.

Judges 2:4 KJV

And it came to pass, when the angel of the LORD spake these words unto all the children of Israel, that the people lifted up their voice, and wept.

although moses brought down the tablets, God spoke to everyone himself.

as we have entertained angels unawares, how are we to tell that at the last moments of life people have been told the gospel by angels? Our chance can last until our last breath.

david



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 03:19 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical

??


sorry james 2:19

(medication talking lol)



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 03:25 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


actually the 7th day adventist believe you can lose salvation, but its a continual willful sinning that separates you from God.

david



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 03:39 PM
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reply to post by JesusisTruth
 


with great respect Jesusistruth

mortal and other sins

a sin is a sin and all are forgiven except blasphemy against the holy spirit

a mortal sin a catholic idea of a sin against the law of God

However this makes a mockery, IMHO, of the blood Christ shed for us. and his own words in Matthew 12:31

Sin is the transgression of the law of God. If Catholic teaching is correct then everyone has committed a Mortal sin that separates us from God forever.

The wages of ALL sin without the blood of Christ and the faith by Grace is death.

david



david



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 05:58 PM
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Originally posted by JesusisTruth


" he didn't have communion "

Yea but he didn't have the chance to recieve communion. He recieved a spiritual communion. But God did impliment the sacrafice and told all the apostles to do this in memory of me until the end of the world which we still do.


faith alone is not enough because what is faith? Faith means doing the law which means dilligence which means works. So faith is works and likewise works are faith. hand in hand as scripture says over and over.


peace.


No one has faith in the law, are you mad? Well, I guess those who practice Judaism have faith in the law. (Which is odd, there is NO Temple to abide by the law with.)

My faith is rooted in the shed blood of my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. I have faith that since I accepted Him as my savior, and accepted to free gift of salvation that he would be faithful and save me.



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 07:00 PM
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I have only one thing to say: "ALL flesh shal see the salvation of God." - Luke 3:6



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 10:25 PM
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okay.. i'm no where near finishing the entire bible.. so if any one wants to help me out. which law are we talking about. is it god's law in general. or a specific one

[edit on 27-9-2008 by Jstykz31]



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 11:05 PM
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Originally posted by Jstykz31
okay.. i'm no where near finishing the entire bible.. so if any one wants to help me out. which law are we talking about. is it god's law in general. or a specific one



God's entire law, there are over 2,700 commandments throughout the Bible. To fail a single one is to fail the entire law in whole.

The law was never meant to save a man, the law was given for 2 reasons.

1. To offer various protections from the consequences of sin.
2. To act as a "mirror", to show a man he was hopeless to merit heaven by his own works/deeds and he needed a savior.



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 11:46 PM
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Drevill you misunderstand me. Catholic mortal sins are the sins that make you not in the state of grace after communion.

they cut you off of his (sanctifying grace) from communion which caused many saints to fall into ecstasy and so forth. I have felt what communion does for the soul. remember I used to be protestant back in 2001.

The mortal sins are basically the ten commandments. same thing.

but the little sins I talk about, are still sins, but stuff like saying a curse word. That's not a mortal sin or a commandment. It's a sin against patience. God said there are sins unto death and other sins.



Now as for notyoutypical.

Yes I accpet Christ too as my saviour. But the fact is that all four gospels, Malachias, and many psalms, and many other books prophecy not only a church that would spread throughout the world but also the new sacrafice or new offering of the NT.

He made a hierarchy in the OT and he did in the NT to govern the people and souls and to interpret scripture so amny different beliefs wouldn't exist through personal interpretation.


God bless you.



posted on Sep, 28 2008 @ 03:03 AM
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reply to post by JesusisTruth
 


thanks for the clarity

my apologies

david



posted on Sep, 28 2008 @ 03:36 AM
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Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
I have only one thing to say: "ALL flesh shal see the salvation of God." - Luke 3:6


a scripture that is ALWAYS taken out of context

[5] Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth;
[6] And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.
[7] Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

during jesus´ ministry, the jews were god´s chosen people, they were the first to receive the ¨heavenly calling¨. after, ¨all flesh¨ had equal opportunity to to partake of this same calling.

all flesh is referring to a people as a group made up of all nations and tongues. not individuals

second.. why would john or jesus even need to preach if everyone is to be saved?

third.. if everybody is saved, then you have to throw out half of what jesus said.




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