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If Hell is Unfair... Then so is Heaven.

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posted on Sep, 25 2008 @ 11:11 AM
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Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



That still doesnt mean that the thief went to heaven, it meant that he went to Paradice, Paradice is a different place than heaven or hell. It's a waiting room for souls awaiting judgement day.


That was true, on the 3rd day Jesus ascended to heaven. Jesus spent 3 days in Paradise. On the 3rd day Jesus ascended to heaven, all the people afterwards who in the Lord go straight to heaven, "paradise" is no more, Jesus was the first Son of Man into heaven.

"To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord."

You are correct... however, 3 days later Jesus ascended to heaven and brought all God's children with Him. Read your Bible.




posted on Sep, 25 2008 @ 11:14 AM
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Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


So your saying that the child rapist/killer just because he believes in Christ will assend to heaven but be given less rewards in the afterlife?

Thats not only silly, it's against gods will.


That's exactly true, because when a person accepts the shed blood of Jesus Christ as payment for their sins, God sees Christ's righteousness when He looks at us. He doesn't see our sin anymore, He sees Christ's righteousness.

Kind David murdered, so did Moses... When God saw those men, he saw Christs righteousness.

Precisely why Jesus got on the scale... The Bible says God remembers our sin no more.

It's terribly easy, all one needs is Jesus Christ.



posted on Sep, 25 2008 @ 11:28 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



Kind David murdered, so did Moses... When God saw those men, he saw Christs righteousness.


so King David and Moses now were alive AFTER Christ? mmkay then, as long as we have the timeline correct.

Ill completely stop arguing this at this point. Nevermind. don't worry bout it. I was completely wrong thinking that King David and Moses were born before Christ and could not invoke any belief in the lamb of god.

Thank you NOTurTypical, My view on history has been corrected.



posted on Sep, 25 2008 @ 11:35 AM
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Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



Kind David murdered, so did Moses... When God saw those men, he saw Christs righteousness.


so King David and Moses now were alive AFTER Christ? mmkay then, as long as we have the timeline correct.

Ill completely stop arguing this at this point. Nevermind. don't worry bout it. I was completely wrong thinking that King David and Moses were born before Christ and could not invoke any belief in the lamb of god.

Thank you NOTurTypical, My view on history has been corrected.


Did I claim they were alive after Christ? Pathetic straw man dude.

Just as simple as it is for me to look into the PAST to what Christ did for me, these men looked toward the FUTURE what the messiah would do for them.

Believe me, these men WROTE that the messiah would die for the sins of the world. lol



posted on Sep, 25 2008 @ 11:38 AM
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"For God so loved the world (meaning everyone who ever lived), that He gave His only begotten Son so that WHOSOEVER believed on Him would not perish, but have everlasting life."

John 3:16

Moses and David wrote that the messiah would die for the sins of the world.

They believed in Him... so do I.



posted on Sep, 25 2008 @ 11:46 AM
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Lot's of interesting discussion is taking place in this thread. That's great. Many of you are making some excellent points.

reply to post by miriam0566
 


I absolutely agree. Faith without works is dead. This cannot be made clear enough. I'm actually following a study at the moment called, 'Get Right or Get Left.' It's great stuff. It talks about how being a Christian is most definitely based on faith and belief to be saved but it's never over after that. We are commanded to walk in the light, righteousness, and the holiness of Christ. However, when we fall, and it will happen, we are still under grace. That is the point of the video, even if they used an extreme case of the Christian being the worst one of all while the non-Christians were more 'righteous' then he was.

Again, I believe belief is the 'salvation' issue and works are the 'walk' issue. For instance, accept Jesus and then get my life straight. Not get my life straight and then accept Jesus. We are made righteous through Him then it becomes a matter of maintaining that relationship and walking the walk. It should never, ever be a case of, 'Great I'm saved. Thanks Jesus! Ok, now I have some sinning to do.'

Just a quick thing about the 'invitation' parable. I believe that refers to the fact we know Jesus said the Jews would reject Him as a whole but the gentiles would accept Him. Also when He says He has come first to the lost sheep of Israel. So, they were the ones who had the 'first invite' so to speak but rejected that invitation. So instead, the Gentiles were invited. And before anyone thinks I support replacement theology- I do not. lol Jesus and the Bible make it very clear there are two separate plans for Christ's church and the Jewish people. The Jewish people are promised spiritual restoration at the end- it's not a case that they completely lost their covenant as adherents of replacement theology believe.

About Heaven being unfair- that was a play-off of all the people who always say, 'Hell is Unfair.' So if being judged for willfully rejecting God is unfair, then it 'Heaven is Unfair' because we don't 'deserve' grace- we are simply given it out of mercy. We, as people, don't deserve anything but we are granted it nonetheless.



posted on Sep, 25 2008 @ 11:49 AM
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Rewards? why would you need rewards if you're already in heaven? are there different levels of heaven? some people get a better heaven then others do?



posted on Sep, 25 2008 @ 12:15 PM
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reply to post by ThePiemaker
 


Some people believe there actually will be different 'stations' in Heaven. And as for the rewards, do you not believe this is so? And, do you believe the Bible? If you do, then the fact rewards are given and our works are tried is wholly Biblical.



posted on Sep, 25 2008 @ 12:35 PM
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Originally posted by ThePiemaker
Rewards? why would you need rewards if you're already in heaven? are there different levels of heaven? some people get a better heaven then others do?


Everyone throws their rewards at the feet of Christ, to give the glory to Him to which it is due. If a person in heaven has no rewards to throw, that person will be pretty embarrassed.

I'd so much love to have many rewards to give back to my Lord, I don't want to be empty handed when others have many crowns to give back to the Lord.

[edit on 25-9-2008 by NOTurTypical]



posted on Sep, 25 2008 @ 12:47 PM
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Once saved always saved is not biblical. Faith without works is dead as the NT says. they go hand in hand. That's why st Paul feared being a cast away after preaching to the faithful.

Now as for the video. I don't like it. It's true but it comes off bad. The last guy did have his head hung in hu mility which is (ALL) God looks for.

He looks and searches hearts for humiltiy first, without which all the works in the world are baised on alot of pride and not helpful to make it.


The reason the rest couldn't get into heaven is because they don't have Jesus in them in holy communion.


" lest you eat the flesh and drink the blood you have no life in you '

and I have felt what communion does for the soul, he comes into you and teaches you humility and real love.


But the video I don't like because it makes Christians look like a comedy act. Comedy and the judgement seat don't go well together.


MO only though.



posted on Sep, 25 2008 @ 12:52 PM
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Pie maker.


" I come to reward each man according to his works "

this is in apacolypse.

what he means is that the more you do in humility and in the excercise of your heart (meaning not being lazy with time given), then he rewards justly baised on that.

He also told saints that he has many different levels of heaven according to the souls virtues, but that even the least in heaven experience true bliss.



peace,.



posted on Sep, 25 2008 @ 09:51 PM
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Originally posted by JesusisTruth

Once saved always saved is not biblical. Faith without works is dead as the NT says. they go hand in hand. That's why st Paul feared being a cast away after preaching to the faithful.



All Christians believe in "Once Saved Always Saved"...

Do you know of any Conditional Salvationists who admit that they are barred from heaven once they commit a sin?

I've never heard of one.

False Doctrines of Christianty



posted on Sep, 26 2008 @ 12:18 AM
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Sin doesn't bar you, but if you keep doing it then you are banished. i can give you and will later 5 or so passages indicating this.

Now answer me brother. Do you know of any Christians who stay out of sin? We don't know if christians commit one or fall back into sins for good.

once saved always saved is not biblical. It goes with running the race till the end as st paul says.


God bless you.



posted on Sep, 26 2008 @ 06:27 AM
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Originally posted by JesusisTruth

Sin doesn't bar you, but if you keep doing it then you are banished. i can give you and will later 5 or so passages indicating this.

Now answer me brother. Do you know of any Christians who stay out of sin? We don't know if christians commit one or fall back into sins for good.

once saved always saved is not biblical. It goes with running the race till the end as st paul says.


God bless you.


We ALL sin daily, we all fail one aspect of the law, here or there on a daily basis.

1 John 1:8

"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us."

I sin daily, do you?



posted on Sep, 26 2008 @ 06:41 AM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical

once saved always saved is not biblical. It goes with running the race till the end as st paul says.


We ALL sin daily, we all fail one aspect of the law, here or there on a daily basis.

1 John 1:8

"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us."

I sin daily, do you?


i think your misunderstanding what he´s saying.

once saved always saved is an excuse alot of christians use so that they dont have to run the race. jesus said to struggle through the door. its not easy at all

james talks about being doers of the word and not hearers. he likens it to looking in a mirror. if you look in the mirror and notice you are a mess, maybe your hair is all over the place, your cloths are all out of place, what would you naturally do? your fix it right?

sometimes as christians, we have to look in the mirror and examine ourselves. maybe we are haughty, or maybe we have a problem with fornication or violence, maybe we drink too much. if we say, ¨well god´s grace covers this¨ and walk away, then we are really missing the point of having that mirror (the law).

yes noone is perfect except christ, and noone will be able to uphold the law perfectly except christ, but that doesnt mean that we shouldnt try.

a person who doesnt try can lose their salvation. grace is not guaranteed. assuming grace is ¨turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness¨



[edit on 26-9-2008 by miriam0566]



posted on Sep, 26 2008 @ 06:57 AM
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All these Christians debating on their own different interpretations and we even have beliefs being mentioned which have no biblical source whatsoever, just individuals opinions of what Jesus / God thinks!

Is it any wonder that I am dubious of any viewpoint when The Bible / Scripture is offered as a source.

If you can't agree amongst yourselves on something that is such an important part of your faith how are you going to convince anyone else?

Which of you is correct and is going to go with Jesus, as sure as night follows day, according to Ash's vid, those of you that are wrong are heading the same way as the vast majority of us non-believers!



posted on Sep, 26 2008 @ 07:09 AM
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Who thinks they can have a liscense to sin???? That's absurd. I'll argue right here and now that those individuals were never "saved" to begin with. There are 3 different kinds of "faith", much like "Love" in English can be broken into 5 different words in Greek, "faith" is also one of those all encompassing words.

I can't think of a single OSAS Christian who thinks they have a liscense to sin. That's absurd. If a "Christian" holds that view, then I don't think that person has a saving faith inside them.

SO, they don't have a "Once saved" faith.. they are still in the darkness/lost. Christ even says that a person who claims to be a Christian and who doesn't try to follow Him isn't one of His sheep in numerous places.

these are paraphrase:

"Why do you call me Lord, Lord, and not do what I say?"

"My sheep hear my voice.."

Those "Christians" who claim they are free to live just as they always did were NEVER saved to begin with, these people are ignorant that Jesus Christ came to Earth to call sinners TO REPENTANCE. those people aren't Christians.

So how can those people be saved to begin with? They are fooling themselves.



posted on Sep, 26 2008 @ 07:27 AM
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reply to post by Freeborn
 


I think we ALL agree on the greater doctrines.
Becoming a Christian, etc........
If you notice how many denominations there are in Christianity, you understand we are not 'autobots' who just go with the consensus of Christian authorities!
Each man serves the Lord in his own conscience. That's why I believe in the American dream of the first settlers to have freedom of religion(In Christianity)
Not to FORCE dogmas and details.
That didn't last very long in Salem, Mass.



posted on Sep, 26 2008 @ 07:44 AM
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reply to post by Clearskies
 


So which is the right denomination and the 'One true word of God'?

It is often said that Catholics think they will be the only people in heaven, as far as I can see the same can be said about the vast majority of Christian denominations!



posted on Sep, 26 2008 @ 10:14 AM
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Any person who has Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and savior. If a person truly does have Him, they will do what He says.

The biggest problem today is the gross mistranslations and omissions Westcott and Hort put out. This has caused NUMEROUS false doctrines to arise, and these two men will receive an ENORMOUS punishment.

Another very big screw up from doctrine came when Origen added Hindu and Buddhist ideas to the scriptures in Alexandria Egypt, this Coptic Greek has given us the Gnostic beliefs we have today.

Those were two of the biggest problems, the Westcott and Hort Greek, and the Coptic Greek from Alexandria Egypt.




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