Russia Sends Warships To The Caribbean

Originally posted by eaganthorn
No, my friend, this move is more than an exercise or routine training excursion, perhaps a demonstration of affection or support for a paranoid dictator in SA

And what is so wrong if that is the case? U.S. supports its share of dictators around the world. On what moral ground can U.S. oppose a friendship between Russia and Venezuela?

And I seriously doubt that you will see Russian bases pop up in Venezuela anytime soon, or anytime at all for that matter.

Originally posted by eaganthorn
perhaps a fortuitous happenstance to advance a presence in this hemisphere

Again - no realistic threat in that. If Russia came to this side of the Atlantic uninvited - then that would be a cause for concern. But it was invited. Remember - U.S. military presence has been building all around Russia for some time now. Maybe Russia is looking for some "payback". But even then - all it is is chest-thumping. Nothing will come of it - because Russian military budget doesn't compare with U.S.

Originally posted by eaganthorn
Perhaps Venezuela wants to aggressively collect some debts from one of their neighbors

And what makes you think Russia will support anything like that? Russia and Venezuala still have a relatively distant and cold relationship, and aren't anywhere near a real military alliance.

Originally posted by eaganthorn
needed to buy a shipload of weapons and wanted some extra muscle in place before they advanced, I can only guess, but the potential is there.

Well if Venezuela wants to buy weapons - then it has every right to. I don't know much about Venezuela's relations with its neighbors, but Russia is still dealing with a legal government of a country. What's the problem with Russia selling weapons to Venezuela?

Originally posted by WestPoint23
reply to post by smallpeeps

 

Thank you for informing me that I an not welcomed here as a member unless I accept conspiracy views for the sake of having a conspiracy angle; when in my opinion there are none. My purpose here is to try and inform people on realty and not fantasy. You're welcomed to disagree and attempt to prove me wrong. However don't question my membership or reason for being here. If I did not find the site compelling and worthwhile I would not have been a continuos member for 4+ years.

This is the last off-topic reply I'll make, so don't bother distracting the thread with personal axes you may still have left to grind.

[edit on 23-9-2008 by WestPoint23]

Alluding to the drugs which many people have read about and are aware as a possibility is hardly going off topic. That particular angle on things is what I pressumed for years before I even looked online for conspiracies. The drugs, sex trade, and luciferean crap is the only thing that makes sense of the twisted world, crammed full of the most inappropriate and mystifyingly ignorant responses of politicians and courts, and the corrupt and evil Hollywood. Thought these things all on my own since the 80s. Now to discuss other possible motives to their positioning themselves is not derailing anything, nor going off topic, it adds to the topic.
There are many different layers to topics. Sometimes the rabbit hole goes very deep indeed.

[edit on 25-9-2008 by mystiq]

Originally posted by maloy

Whether he is right or wrong will be left for the future generations to decide looking back at history. Russia is slowly prospering for the first time in over a century. Russians are content with their leadership. For now that is what matters the most.

Yes, trying to define Putin's leadership is perplexing. Start with a big chunk of KGB, sprinkle in some Russia mafia corruption, mix in some lunatic business associates (Ahmadinejad and Chavez), stir in some Georgia with vigorous muscle flexing, add some anti-US rhetoric, pour into some rusty old communist dictatorship threats and what do you have? A Russian leader who has overstayed his welcome. Unfortunately he's too absorbed with his own ego to notice.

Who is Putin? (Yes, I'm confused about who he is.) I doubt he even knows. And therein lays the danger.

Enough said. The fact that he's still in power after serving his two presidential terms says it all. Russia loves it's dictators.

Due to constitutionally mandated term limits, Putin was ineligible to run for a third consecutive Presidential term. After the victory of his successor, Dmitry Medvedev, in the 2008 presidential elections, he was then nominated by the latter to be Russia's Prime Minister; Putin took the post on 8 May 2008.

In his last days in office he was reported to have taken a series of steps to re-align the regional bureaucracy to make the governors report to the prime-minister rather than the president. The presidential site explained that "the changes... bear a refining nature and do not affect the essential positions of the system. The key role in estimating the effectiveness of activity of regional authority still belongs to President of the Russian Federation."

Very fishy, indeed. These are not ordinary actions, especially in light of his new antagonistic rhetoric and geopolitical games against the US.

Originally posted by Matrix1111
Start with a big chunk of KGB

And? What does KGB have to do with this? What is the big problem people have with KGB?

Originally posted by Matrix1111
sprinkle in some Russia mafia corruption

How does that play any role? Medvedev is currently focused on fighting corruption, and Putin was the one who uprooted the main mafia syndicates of Russia - those that belonged to oligarchs like Berezovsky.

Originally posted by Matrix1111
mix in some lunatic business associates (Ahmadinejad and Chavez)

What about Saddam, Musharraf, Kadafi, and the Saudi kings. Are they not lunatics by the some relativistic standard? If you are going to assign guilt by association - then you can start with the U.S.

Originally posted by Matrix1111
stir in some Georgia with vigorous muscle flexing

Muscle flexing would have resulted in Saakashvili being strung up by his neck, and Tbilisi being occupied by Russian tanks.

Originally posted by Matrix1111
add some anti-US rhetoric

Oh no - not the anti-US rhetoric. That's a sin.

Originally posted by Matrix1111
pour into some rusty old communist dictatorship threats

Back to Lenin, Stalin, and Trotsky I see. Are you actually aware that this Marxist bunch has been dead for well over half a century now?

Originally posted by Matrix1111
and what do you have?

I can tell you what you have - a bunch of random USSR cliches wraped around in a prejudiced twist that would make any science fiction writer proud.

Originally posted by Matrix1111
A Russian leader who has overstayed his welcome.

Where did Putin or Medvedev overstay their welcome? I wasn't aware they were anyone's guests.

Originally posted by Matrix1111
Unfortunately he's too absorbed with his own ego to notice.

Notice what?

Originally posted by Matrix1111
Who is Putin? (Yes, I'm confused about who he is.)

It shows.

Originally posted by Matrix1111
I doubt he even knows.

I doubt he know who you are, or that he knows that you know who you are.

Originally posted by Matrix1111
The fact that he's still in power after serving his two presidential terms says it all. Russia loves it's dictators.

So Franklin D. Roosevelt was a U.S. dictator too, because he served a third term? Who knew.

Originally posted by Matrix1111
Very fishy, indeed. These are not ordinary actions

Nor are they extraordinary actions - given that Yeltsin's Presidential term saw even more drastic revisions of the powers of the executive branch. In addition to this Yeltsin (who was pro-U.S. in most cases) violated the Russian constitution several times, and failed to heed the rulings of the Legislative branch of the Russian government that he is out of bounds.

Yeltsin did far more to impede democracy in Russia than did Putin. And through all his efforts, U.S. firmly supported Yeltsin and his actions - when they were in clear violation of the Russian constitution. Very fishy indeed.

reply to post by maloy


Seventy years of Marxist-Leninism programmed billions of people to perceive through the tainted glasses of Marxism. It's distorted the perceptions of several generations of people. The victims, as demonstrated by Putin's mindset, are incapable of realizing their minds do not see the world in the same way as the generations of people that have lived without being programmed with terror networks and fear. People raised with freedom resonate a different spirit relative to the people raised with totalitarianism.

The issue is really one of materialism vs. spiritualism. Consequently, the mindset of Marxism and Post-Marxism makes a reciprocal base with a certain level of spirits (resentful, competitive, loveless) while the mindset of religio-spiritual people resonant with a higher-vibration-level of spirits (caring, nurturing, love-giving). The lower-realm-influenced people are spiritually blocked from perceiving the true character of the higher-realm-influenced people. The former breathes in the noxious fumes of negativity while the latter breathes in life-giving oxygen.

The only way to remedy this problem that's reflected in the recent actions of Putin on a geo-political stage is for the oxygen of Liberty to out-produce the noxious fumes of Post-Marxism.


[edit on 9/25/2008 by Matrix1111]

reply to post by maloy


I think I started by saying, "Ok kids, this is one of those stories you should keep track of, don't let this slip by you.
Whenever the greater military powers move their ships around, it isn't for gips and giggles. It is a very large financial cost to move these bad boys across the ocean, and they don't do it for exercise. There is a military reason.
If it is one thing I know, it's carnage and this smells like carnage."
I stand by this comment and nothing spat thus far actually disolves or refutes it, not even the pithy sarcasm.

And todays report indicates more fuel on the fire as Russia has now loaned a Billion dollars to Venezuela to purchase that much in weapons from Russia as well as endorsing with finance their newly disclosed Nuclear developement program. Russia is now assisting another thug into the world areana with nuclear technology. The smell is getting stronger.

afp.google.com...

Pay attention, kids, pay attention.

I just have one question. Who runs Russia? Putin or Medvedev? I thought the president was the one who runs the country but it doesnt seem so in Russia's case. Is this something new?

reply to post by eaganthorn


It also wouldn't take much more than a single pre-engineered act of war right now for the government to justify to its citizens that the NAU is the best idea they've ever heard.. The real people running the world are not the politicians.. The fate of the world has already been pre-ordained by the real men behind the curtain. The concentration camps in the U.S. are already constructed... The brand new vehicles with the government license plates are all parked at these facilities for when they are needed. The government already has classified underground facilities all over the country to coordinate everything. We already have facilities and infrastructure built and put in place with tax-payer dollars that are constructed to process and detain uncooperative citizens.. Everything is ready..

Not to get too far off topic but..
This is important stuff for everyone to see and think about.....




-ChriS

[edit on 26-9-2008 by BlasteR]

Originally posted by maloy

Originally posted by Fang
It's finding Polonium in my Sushi that frightens me.

So did you find any yet?

Keep looking. I am sure the FSB has wiretapped your communications, and Putin's henchmen are engineering the best way to get rid of you.

I gave up eating Sushi in central London after the last 'FSB additives' scare. Consequently,
my Omega 3 levels are low, my arteries are clogged and hardening, so the FSB will achieve my demise by indirect means. Cunning these Russians.

reply to post by BlasteR


Nice find BlasteR, I am glad to see you paying attention. Same for you Matrix1111, elderban, and all the others on this thread that are watching the real world and are paying attention.

This is a very critical time in our history for all of us, we have the means in which to monitor our world and keep a watchful eye on our governments, the politicians and those who would consider themselves our lords and masters. We can use the very same medium that was designed to watch us, to watch them. These people in charge are people, same as you and I, and can just as easily succumb to the very same vices and corruptions that temp each and every one of us. It is therefore our responsibility to carefully watch our governments and politicians and monitor them for integrity and virtue, to keep them honest, or at least honest-er.

I am not suggesting that we place them in high reverence, just the opposite, they are on the exact same level as you and I, except they are our employees. And just like it were any other business we would manage or own, we must “check” our employees regularly to make sure they are being honest, are doing their job and are not dipping into company funds.

This action by the Russian government to send war ships into our area is strategic with an anticipated long term result. Their timing, to do this while America is so disorganized, in the middle of a national election of federal administration and in a crisis situation with host resources divided and unstable, is a fine example of military strategy. Well played and I might add, kudos to whoever is their tactician.

Since WWII, the major super powers of the world have waged war vicariously through third world countries. This is generally done for control of those countries resources by financing puppet or shell governments in the various world markets and regions while mass marketing an ideology. It would be fascinating to watch if it weren’t for the fact that it spreads an incredible amount of suffering and unwarranted carnage. It is also, completely unnecessary in this modern world of technology and advancement, but the old ways and habits die hard.

Hugo Chavez of Venezuela is a thug, er, well, at least that is the impression many of us get. He is routinely cited as being involved in mafia style drug cartels and linked to copious amounts of nefarious underworld activities. He is considered to be another one of those puppet dictators, selling his country out to the highest bidder. While poverty does exist everywhere in the world, there are poverty conditions existing in that country that go well beyond extreme and is far to widespread for modern times. There exists also a very extreme wealth and both the wealth and extreme poverty have grown during Hugo’s reign. His country is rich with various mineral resources and some new technology has revealed more oil than previously thought and some additional surprises under the Venezuelan soil. The country is also the strategic anchor of the “Bridge of the Americas”, the string of islands used as a trade and shipping route for legitimate and illegitimate merchants for North and South America as well as the islands themselves.

In all fairness, I must point out that my information about Hugo Chavez is for the most part, anecdotal as I have not witnessed any of this myself. I am going by what the news reports, what I find on the internet and some people I’ve met while I lived in Miami that were from that country. They were desperately trying get as many relatives and friends out of Venezuela as possible. Some of the photos I was shown were devastatingly horrible and bordered on evil. It is reminiscent of when Fidel took over Cuba, but more savage IMHO.

The question as to whether or not Russia is violating any agreements or laws at this time isn’t really the only question here. It is entirely possible to do the wrong things while remaining legal. I suppose it comes to intent, provable intent and plausible deniability. Does Russia realize they are propping up a puppet dictator, providing him with weapons, providing him with the money to buy those weapons, providing him with the technology to build super weapons? I would think so, but why? Just to get more oil, to play the role of broker between China and Venezuela? Hmmmm, they are giving a bully the means in which to be a bigger bully and they are setting up protection for that same bully by sending in Battleships. What do they get in return?

I for one, am going to watch this very carefully and I would hope everyone else would do the same.

Putin was "invited" to become Prime Minister by President Medvedev in May of 2008. He had served two consecutive terms as president and was ineligible for a third. His last day as president was May 7, 08 and the very next day Medvedev designated Putin as Prime Minister. And from the looks of his behavior since, he welds more power than President Medvedev.

What’s going on with Putin? What’s behind his saber rattling in international waters? Here’s what I’m coming up with:

It’s reported that Putin considers the demise of the Soviet empire to be the “greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century” and seems to be doing everything possible to undo this “catastrophe.” He is not trying to bring back Communism as such but using oil and gas “diplomacy” to try to restore the Russian empire…

Putin and his ex-KGB friends in the Kremlin have never accepted the political independence of the former Soviet republics...

David Satter, an American journalist and expert on Post-Soviet Russia, says that “Mr. Putin has gradually destroyed Russian democracy and concentrated in the Kremlin not only political but also economic power by renationalizing the country's vast energy resources. As Russia looks more like the Soviet Union at home, its foreign policy follows old patterns as well. It sells nuclear technology and missiles to Iran while giving it diplomatic protection. Wherever there is a major political crisis -- be it Syria or Sudan -- Moscow almost inevitably opposes U.S. policy and backs the rogues…”

Source: www.freerepublic.com...

Judging from his treatment of former Soviet nations like Ukraine and Georgia, Putin has learned well from the Russian mafia. (Or simply retains his KGB terror tactics.) As president he’s been using extortion, intimidation and threats to strong-armed his way back into the affairs of former Soviet nations and now as prime minister he is using the same tactics to bully his way around against the US and NATO.

Why is he doing this? Because his strong-arm mafia tactics of the past have caught up with him, scaring away any sane international business venture capitalist. Without trade partners and investors, Russia cannot function within the world markets in any legitimate manner.

Published: October 29, 2003
After laboring to project the image of a rational, law-abiding statesman, President Vladimir Putin of Russia has reverted to the vengeful violence of his old employer, the K.G.B. No longer willing to pursue Russia's most prominent tycoon through the courts, Mr. Putin sent masked agents to seize the business magnate, Mikhail Khodorkovsky, aboard his airplane and threw him into the notorious Matrosskaya Tishina jail, where he will stay at least through the end of the year.

The arrest was a serious mistake, and Mr. Putin's claim that it was the act of an independent judiciary convinced no one, least of all the markets, which plunged on the fear that the Kremlin was showing its true authoritarian colors. They recovered somewhat yesterday, but the economic damage is already large. The longer-term damage to Russia's image and Mr. Putin's credibility may be even greater.”

Source: query.nytimes.com...

An ex-KGB agent and Russian dissident, Alexander Litvinenko, was poisoned in London, apparently by another ex-KGB agent loyal to Putin. Pavel Basanets was an ex-officer who was the first to sign a blunt document damning Putin’s plundering of Russia and his autocratic leadership. Basanets suddenly died in Moscow. And yes, Watson, he was poisoned.

The above links provide abundant evidence that all three of the poisonings were either ordered or condoned by President Putin. They were committed with exotic KGB style poisons, which were difficult to detect and difficult to obtain. (Radioactive isotopes are not stocked next to commercially available rat poisons.) And these attacks were all conveniently conducted against outspoken critics of Mr. Putin.

You don’t hear too much from his opposition now. These abjectly cruel, brutal, sociopathic poisonings sent a clear message to all who would oppose Putin: “Don’t mess with me.” They don’t.

Source: www.bloggernews.net...

It was one of the highlights of the Soviet calendar - a chance for the communist superpower to show off its military might and for ordinary citizens to check that their gerontocratic leaders were still alive, perched on top of Lenin's tomb.

But 17 years after the last hammer and sickle tanks trundled through Red Square, the Kremlin is to revive on May 9 the Soviet-era practice of parading its big weaponry, the Russian defence ministry confirmed yesterday. As well as 6,000 marching soldiers, it will show off its latest tanks and rockets - such as the new intercontinental ballistic missile, Topol-M.

"Under the plan adopted by the president, land and air military equipment will be involved in the parade on Red Square," General Yuri Solovyov said. The parade will include the new S-300 missile defence system that Russia has just sold to Iran.

The decision to revive this symbol of the cold war is likely to provoke criticism from opposition parties, which accuse Vladimir Putin of turning Russia into a pastiche of the Soviet Union. The parade might also raise a few quizzical eyebrows inside the British embassy in Moscow. Last week, Russia closed the British Council's two regional offices in St Petersburg and Yekaterinburg using what UK officials described as "classic KGB tactics".

Source: www.guardian.co.uk...

Moscow
This week's global market catastrophe kicked the Russian economy when it was already down. On Wednesday trading was suspended for a day and a half. An unprecedented 1.126 trillion rubles (around $44 billion) has been allocated to rescue three major Russian banks. One, Gazprombank, is controlled by Yuri Kovalchuk, Vladimir Putin's closest partner.

The market's collapse, down 57% since May, is linked to the dysfunctional nature of the Russian state and economy. Nearly every aspect of commerce in Russia is deeply entangled with state power, if not with Mr. Putin personally. This, for obvious reasons, does not comfort most investors.

One famous investor in particular was worried about the security of doing business in Mr. Putin's Russia. Rupert Murdoch, speaking on News Corp.'s earnings call on Aug. 5, had this to say: "The more I read about investments in Russia, the less I like the feel of it. The more successful we'd be, the more vulnerable we'd be to have it stolen from us, so there we sell now."

The hoped-for liberalization under new Russian President Dmitry Medvedev has turned out to be another case of wishful thinking both in Russia and the West. There's no doubt in the business community about who's really in charge. After his cronies' takeover attempt of steel and coal giant Mechel was rebuffed, Mr. Putin's public outburst of criticism in late July was enough to destroy the company's market value.

Source: www.guardian.co.uk...

Originally posted by princeofpeace
I just have one question. Who runs Russia? Putin or Medvedev? I thought the president was the one who runs the country but it doesnt seem so in Russia's case. Is this something new?

Many democracies around the world have the Prime Minister as the head of the government (Israel for example), while the President has a secondary role.

But in case of Russia - the President still has more official powers than the prime minister. So theoretically Medvedev has the most legal power. Knowing the Russian politics fairly thorough I would say that Russia will not switch to the "Prime Minister - as head of government" system, although there will be more power sharing between the two. The PM has more duties and powers than before.

Ultimately it doesn't matter if its Putin or Medvedev that runs the country. They are in the same party, they share the same goals and strategy, and Medvedev may very well consider himself a protege of Putin. There is no reason for them to diverge on any policies.




I do not understand what it is that you see so undemocratic about Russia. Russia has never developed into a full democracy, and the 90's could hardly be called democratic times. So Putin/Medvedev are not backtracking on anything. They are just rebuilding the fragile mess from the ground up - and for a good reason. By 1998, the Russian Federation was a failed country. A radical change was required if Russia were to continue to function as a solvent state. Putin introduced that change, which is still ongoing. The progress has been considerable - just looking at the Russian economy.

reply to post by Matrix1111


What are you trying to prove by posting "opinions" and blogs, and articles from sources that are known to be highly biased?


If you base your view on Russia and Putin just on these biased sources - then you see only a very small part of the picture. The sources you provide are pure propaganda, and do not present the events in their entirety, just focusing on what fits their agenda.

Originally posted by Matrix1111
The victims, as demonstrated by Putin's mindset, are incapable of realizing their minds do not see the world in the same way as the generations of people that have lived without being programmed with terror networks and fear.

You speak of the victims mindsets - yet I can bet that you have never been to Russia and do not have a slightest clue what happened in Russia since 1990. Nor do you have a slightest clue about the mindset of the Russian people and Putin's policies.

Just what do you know about the Russians' mindsets? So far - as evidenced by your attempts at psychological analysis laced with ambiguity, not a thing.

And you think Americans have not been programmed with terror networks and fear?

Originally posted by Matrix1111
The issue is really one of materialism vs. spiritualism. Consequently, the mindset of Marxism and Post-Marxism makes a reciprocal base with a certain level of spirits (resentful, competitive, loveless) while the mindset of religio-spiritual people resonant with a higher-vibration-level of spirits (caring, nurturing, love-giving).

Is this hippie talk somehow supposed to prove that Putin is an evil commie?

So Americans and Europeans are not resentful, competitive, and whatever the hell "loveless" means? As for "caring, nurturing, love-giving" - is that supposed to be a joke. Sound like some more hippie talk. Just who do you see as "caring, nurturing, love-giving"?

Originally posted by Matrix1111
The lower-realm-influenced people are spiritually blocked from perceiving the true character of the higher-realm-influenced people. The former breathes in the noxious fumes of negativity while the latter breathes in life-giving oxygen.

HUH??? What is this scientology?

Originally posted by Matrix1111
The only way to remedy this problem that's reflected in the recent actions of Putin on a geo-political stage is for the oxygen of Liberty to out-produce the noxious fumes of Post-Marxism.

So is "oxygen of Liberty" dropped from B-52 and B-2 bombers in the form of 5,000 pound bombs?

Originally posted by Matrix1111
It’s reported that Putin considers the demise of the Soviet empire to be the “greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century”

It was one of the greatest geopolitical catastrophies. The demise of USSR resulted in dozens of conflicts, the uprooting of global bipolar balance, and the poverty of tens of millions of people.

Try and argue that what Putin said is wrong.

Originally posted by Matrix1111
He is not trying to bring back Communism as such but using oil and gas “diplomacy” to try to restore the Russian empire…

Ah now we are getting somewhere. So he is not a Marxist as you say, and he is not trying to restore communism.

So get your opinion straight - is he trying to rebuild communism, restore the Russian Empire, or construct the Death Star?

Originally posted by Matrix1111
Putin and his ex-KGB friends in the Kremlin have never accepted the political independence of the former Soviet republics...

Again where are the reasons to justify this statement?

Originally posted by Matrix1111
David Satter, an American journalist and expert on Post-Soviet Russia

A self-prescribed expert - with an agenda.

Originally posted by Matrix1111
says that “Mr. Putin has gradually destroyed Russian democracy and concentrated in the Kremlin not only political but also economic power by renationalizing the country's vast energy resources.

How did that destroy the Russian democracy? Where is the tie between "nationalization of national resources" and "destroying democracy"? Many democracies around the world have nationalized aspects of their economy (such as energy, healthcare, education, public transportation).

Originally posted by Matrix1111
As Russia looks more like the Soviet Union at home, its foreign policy follows old patterns as well.

All we hear are statements of opinion. Where are the facts? The self-prescribed expert is desperately lacking critical thinking skills.

Originally posted by Matrix1111
It sells nuclear technology and missiles to Iran while giving it diplomatic protection.

And? U.S. is a democracy, yet it supplies weapons and allies itself with some of the world's biggest dictatorships - namely Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. It also given them diplomatic protection.

Originally posted by Matrix1111
Wherever there is a major political crisis -- be it Syria or Sudan -- Moscow almost inevitably opposes U.S. policy and backs the rogues

Wherever there is a major political crisis -- be it Georgia, Turkmenistan, Pakistan, Iraq, Lybia, or Israel -- U.S. almost inevitably opposed the UN and Russia policy and backs the rogues.

Originally posted by Matrix1111
Judging from his treatment of former Soviet nations like Ukraine and Georgia, Putin has learned well from the Russian mafia.

Ok - how do Putin's actions in respect to Ukraine and Georgia mirror the operations of the Russian mafia? Any examples?

It is easy to say that Apple = Orange. Any idiot can say Apple = Orange, and pretend to be an "expert". The key lies in the reasoning and justification of this conclusion - based on critical analysis. These sources provide no justification of any kind.

Originally posted by Matrix1111
As president he’s been using extortion

Really? When?

Originally posted by Matrix1111
intimidation and threats

When was that, and how was it different from the kind of intimidation and threats the U.S. government regularly uses?

Originally posted by Matrix1111
as prime minister he is using the same tactics to bully his way around against the US and NATO.

He is? Says who? More importanly - based on what facts?




You see what you are doing? You make conclusions, without providing any reasons. So all of the above statements are conclusions. The only thing they prove - is that somebody has conclusions. They do not demonstrate how these conclusions were reached.

reply to post by WestPoint23


West, I agree. This is absolutely nothing. I live on the coast of Florida, and I recall the Cuban Missile Crisis as a kid. One third of the nearby B-52's were in the air circling, 24 hours a day, for days on end. You go out in the yard, day or night, hear the dull roar, and see them circling. And not for fun. Another third were in their planes on ready standby, and the other third were sleeping in their flight suits.

Most of the military had sent their families far away from here. When you see stress and extreme tension in the face of a military man, the situation is frequently grim.

This little flight and summer cruise will delight an idiot like Chavez, but the Russians know that every moment, every aircraft and every ship is in the crosshairs and only seconds from destruction.

Let the Russians have their fun. That's pretty much all the fun Russians ever have. There aren't many of those Backfires that can still fly, so those boys need a bit of practice. Russian Navy? You need to run these ships sometimes so that some of the accumulated rust on the bottoms will shear off as they pick up speed. Russia is not now, and never has been a naval power. There's a difference between having a lot of ships and being a naval power.

Besides. HAARP is for show. Consider Chernobyl. One big standing wave popped right back to the Russians like a big rubber band snapping. The Russians know. And that's all that's important.

Originally posted by maloy


You see what you are doing? You make conclusions, without providing any reasons. So all of the above statements are conclusions. The only thing they prove - is that somebody has conclusions. They do not demonstrate how these conclusions were reached.

I'm not alone in my conclusions. The Guardian and New York Times back them up. And tonight McCain said the same thing as myself and the articles, but in fewer words:

"I looked into Putin's eyes and what I saw were three letters -- K - G - B."







[edit on 9/26/2008 by Matrix1111]

Originally posted by Matrix1111
Seventy years of Marxist-Leninism programmed billions of people to perceive through the tainted glasses of Marxism.

Please explain to me how the "Marxists' ( Which neither Lenin or Stalin represented at all) programmed billions when they had no access to billions.

It's distorted the perceptions of several generations of people. The victims, as demonstrated by Putin's mindset, are incapable of realizing their minds do not see the world in the same way as the generations of people that have lived without being programmed with terror networks and fear.

Such as where? Russians may have been affraid but legitimately so as their country were invaded three times in just the last century. Should we not rather ask why Americans are so desperately affraid and what led to their perceptions of impending doom?

People raised with freedom resonate a different spirit relative to the people raised with totalitarianism.

So we can measure spirit resonance? In which year where that specific breaktrough made?

The issue is really one of materialism vs. spiritualism.

And how is capitalism more spiritual than socialism or even the facism of the USSR?

Consequently, the mindset of Marxism and Post-Marxism makes a reciprocal base with a certain level of spirits (resentful, competitive, loveless) while the mindset of religio-spiritual people resonant with a higher-vibration-level of spirits (caring, nurturing, love-giving).

Where did you 'study' and what 'disciplines'?

The lower-realm-influenced people are spiritually blocked from perceiving the true character of the higher-realm-influenced people. The former breathes in the noxious fumes of negativity while the latter breathes in life-giving oxygen.

Actually we all breath oxygen so i suppose i can rule out a education in physics and biology/common sense.

The only way to remedy this problem that's reflected in the recent actions of Putin on a geo-political stage is for the oxygen of Liberty to out-produce the noxious fumes of Post-Marxism.

Americans have a hard enough time maintaining their liberties at home and it's certainly not a something that the US national security state have ever tried to actually export; aside from the pretense that is.

Originally posted by Matrix1111
Putin doesn't behave like he has a grasp of what a post-communist world is all about. Instead, he's reverting back to old-diehard communist geopolitics, as his public relations stunts with nutcase leaders of Iran and Venezuela prove. Same with your rhetoric.

Neither Hugo Chavez or Mahmoud Ahmadinejad seem even remotely crazy to me ( especially not as compared to George Bush) and i would like you to explain what 'old-diehard communist geopolitics' consists of. There world was never communist to start with and they never had a chance given how it was already dominated by imperial capitalist systems.

There's no reason for Putin to be antagonistic against the US, unless it still has global dominion ambitions?

Putin and the Russian people have every right to be worried about the US as it's the country that is still encircling Russian with bases in dozens of countries. If you want to discuss the imperial ambitions and successes of both countries we can certainly do that.

And why would he? To promote his keen "expertise" functioning in a "capitalistic" world economy? How long has he been an expert at that? What does he have to offer the world?

Oh i think mister Putin and the KGB/FSB old timers that still run that country are past experts at predatory capitalism and need little if any advice from the west. My question comes down to pointing out the terrible exploitation the US national security state has enforced on the world while the USSR worked itself to near exhaustion bringing about a credible defense against western imperialism. We may not enjoy a world where Russian reigns preeminant but the world that the US national security state brought about by armed and economic intervention has consistently killed 10 -20 million people each year for six decades running. I am all for trying out something new....

His poor judgment as a KGB Marxist? He choice Marxism and when it proved to be a flop what did he do? Did he apologize to the world for trying to impose the dictatorship of the proletariat upon the world?

The KGB and or USSR were never Marxist and your embarrassing yourself by claiming as much. The USSR did not 'flop' in the formal sense as it's collapse was mostly a facade to usher in change while attempting to fool it's own citizens into believing that they had achieved 'freedom'. Marxisms success may be based on a world revolution but fascism doesn't require that as the USS R's model proved so very effectively.

No, he just arrogantly reverts back to being a dickhead who thinks life is about being king of the hill. I guess when you've been raised to believe in a materialistic, Darwinian view of the world, he can't do much else.

So now you don't like Darwin?

Relatively speaking, Russia is morally and ideologically bankrupt and Putin's actions of late show it.

Russia isn't in any obvious way and how the actions of one man can sum up a nation only people like you would know. Based on your reasoning Bush must represent American citizens but luckily for you this view isn't shared by the rest of the world who rightly doesn't hold people responsible for the actions of their governments.

He's going through an identity crises and pulling Russia down with him

How? He isn't a dictator? .

I don't think the Russian mafia model is something the 21st century needs being implemented or promoted.

Maybe the neo 'conservative' model works better for you?

We should move forward and find avenues of cooperation and harmony, not continue the competition of weaponry. If Putin is really on the side of capitalism, then he's going about it all wrong.

This is a good idea and i thus suggest that you campaign in your country so that it may sooner withdraw it's troops from their occupation duties in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Stellar

America is in for its darkest time right now. Bankrupt, but still flexing its muscles all over the world, America is not wise anymore.

I beleive we are about to get a dose of what we have been spreading all over the world! The time is perfect right now. We are no longer the great power we appeared to be on paper and other countries are going to retaliate soon. You cant be threatening others while you are going down on your knees. Not very practical or wise.

I dont beleive this bailout is going to make any difference. I think in the end we are still going down, at which time we will be more vulnurable than ever for an unfortunate attack.