Something Wicked Dwells Within.

reply to post by MorningStar8741

I am rather curious though what makes anyone think that KJV is any more reliable than this new version. Have you seen every revision of the bible throughout history? Have you translated the original transcripts? No. I would say this new bible is every bit as reliable as KJV. Bother were edited by men to represent the best interests of those men.

As mentioned in previous post,the foundation of the KJV came from the Tyndale Bible.William Tyndale was one of the few men who translated it for an unselfish reason;he believed that everyone had a right to read the bible and had a right to have their own copy.

reply to post by jakyll


Or so you have been told. The bible is stories. The history of the bible is stories. To even think that you have anything close to the original is laughable and probably why you neglected to answer why if it was so unselfishly translated by anyone for purely altruistic intent, then there WOULD HAVE BEEN NO DEBATE EVER ABOUT WHICH BOOKS NOT TO INCLUDE. The story ends right there. It was edited from the very beginning so to think it is possible to get a straight translation from an already edited book is just insane. And why would anyone want to exclude even one story from the bible if their intention was nothing more than to spread the word.

reply to post by MorningStar8741

Or so you have been told. The bible is stories. The history of the bible is stories. To even think that you have anything close to the original is laughable and probably why you neglected to answer why if it was so unselfishly translated by anyone for purely altruistic intent, then there WOULD HAVE BEEN NO DEBATE EVER ABOUT WHICH BOOKS NOT TO INCLUDE. The story ends right there. It was edited from the very beginning so to think it is possible to get a straight translation from an already edited book is just insane. And why would anyone want to exclude even one story from the bible if their intention was nothing more than to spread the word.

I never said it was the straight story,but i believe it to be one of the closest to it and would be more so if it included the books removed.

And the debate about what books to go in it didn't happen with the publishing of the KJV.That happened at the Nicaea Council and then during the Protestant Reformation.

Tyndale worked on his own and debated with no one.

reply to post by jakyll


And what did he have to work with? Did he include those excluded books? Why not? See my point?

Every translation and every version is different from others. The only 'true' version would be the original document, which no longer exists. Although sprinkled with some historical facts, like a previous poster said, it's really just a large collection of short stories and should not be looked at in anyway other than a beautiful piece of ancient literature.

reply to post by MorningStar8741

And what did he have to work with? Did he include those excluded books? Why not? See my point?

Originals and copies of originals.
And his bible did,as did the KJV,thats why i tell people its important to read these other books.

In 1880 the American Bible Society voted to remove the "Apocrypha" Books from the King James Version. These 14 Books [There are 155,683 words in over 5,700 verses in 168 Chapters] of the Apocrypha had been part of the King’s bible since 1611.

www.bibleufo.com...

reply to post by jakyll


OK, what about the books that were left out to begin with? He did not re-include those, did he?

reply to post by MorningStar8741

OK, what about the books that were left out to begin with? He did not re-include those, did he?

No.
Because they weren't known about then.
The Vatican had some locked away,and still does.
And many weren't discovered until 1945.(Nag Hammadi)
and between 1947-1979.(Dead Sea Scrolls)

reply to post by jakyll

Here is what I do. go to scripturetext.com... then go to bible.cc...
The one site gives you the text and breaks it down and the other gives you some commentery.
You use the drop-down menu at the top, left and get the verse you want.
It gives you every version and also the different versions of the greek and latin.
For commentery I use the Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary.
It is good because it explains how to understand the right way to translate how the words are used.

Originally posted by jakyll
reply to post by MorningStar8741

 

OK, what about the books that were left out to begin with? He did not re-include those, did he?

No.
Because they weren't known about then.
The Vatican had some locked away,and still does.
And many weren't discovered until 1945.(Nag Hammadi)
and between 1947-1979.(Dead Sea Scrolls)

So....you went through all this why? I said that no matter how well he intended to translate the truth, he never had access to the whole truth so it was flawed from the beginning. Thank you for making that point for me, slowly.

reply to post by MorningStar8741


You're welcome

So....you went through all this why? I said that no matter how well he intended to translate the truth, he never had access to the whole truth so it was flawed from the beginning. Thank you for making that point for me, slowly.

And half of the truth is better than no truth at all.
No one has access to the full truth for centuries and i doubt anyone can even name 1 3rd of the estimated 600 books,letters and epistles that made up the original scriptures.









[edit on 24-9-2008 by jakyll]

reply to post by jmdewey60


I use those sometimes.For the interpretation of Hebrew scripture though i usually ask my friend.I'm lucky enough to have my very own Jewish scholar.lol.

Originally posted by jakyll
reply to post by MorningStar8741

 

You're welcome

So....you went through all this why? I said that no matter how well he intended to translate the truth, he never had access to the whole truth so it was flawed from the beginning. Thank you for making that point for me, slowly.

And half of the truth is better than no truth at all.
No one has access to the full truth for centuries and i doubt anyone can even name 1 3rd of the estimated 600 books,letters and epistles that made up the original scriptures.









[edit on 24-9-2008 by jakyll]

Exactly. Do you not realize just how much any story can be altered by omitting parts of it? Have you never seen the effects of editing to completely change the meaning of anything? There is a reason someoe did not want certain things in there. Why not, if they were true? The fact is that some MEN did not like them, did not allow them to be passed on and therefore what you have is barely a joke of what the bible should be and should be held with as much regard. It is the collection of men's ideas about what they want you to think about religion. How that is in any way ok with you is beyond me but so be it. It is your "religion."

Originally posted by jakyll
reply to post by jmdewey60

 

I use those sometimes.For the interpretation of Hebrew scripture though i usually ask my friend.I'm lucky enough to have my very own Jewish scholar.lol.

I went back to reading the old King James and if I run into something that seems ambiguous I use that site to get a better understanding.
I would rather figure it out myself than to read a version that decides for me.

Originally posted by letthereaderunderstand
reply to post by doctorex

 

Hey doctorex and many blessings.

I wasn't aware that there were different "Kingdom's of Heaven". As I understand it, we are the Kingdom. You are a King and a Priest. As I understand it, Jesus was always speaking of the temple of the body, yet everyone else was awaiting the "fictitious" Kingdom from out of the sky. Most "Christians" are on this boat...waiting for the Kingdom Come.

Blessings to you also. The prophecies in the Bible talk of the kingdoms of man being replaced on Earth by a kingdom set up by God, ruled by Christ, such as the prophecy of the statue in the book of Daniel chapter 2....

39 And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth.
40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things : and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.
41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.
42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.
43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.
44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever.

The kings which "in the days of these kings" (the days in which God will set up his Kingdom) refers to is the 10 toes, the 10 kings that join and give their power to the beast in Revelation...

Revelation 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

It is also mention later in the book of Daniel chapter 7. The kingdom of God is not some airy fairy feel good butterflies in your stomach, it will be a literal kingdom. That is what the Gospel (meaning good news) was proclaiming, the future kingdom of God. The book of Revelation describes this taking place...

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign forever and ever.

The last kingdoms of man will fight Christ at his return (and loose) , and Christ will rule for 1000 years (chapter 19 & 20)

All of his acts, he said we would do and greater. That's hard to understand with the modern christian view, unless you study to find out, "to cure", simply means "to wait on as a slave" and not mystically.

Yes, we will do greater, after our resurrection to spiritual bodies, that time has not come yet. The Greek word for cure (therapeuo) means more than wait on as a slave or to serve, it means to heal also, and is where we get our english words like therapeutic and therapist. Other greek words are also use such as iaomai, diasozo, iasis etc, which also mean to heal or make whole again, and have nothing to do with being a slave.

Have you ever seen a blind man receive site or a Demon exorcised or a leper cleansed or the Dead raised...be truthful. I have not unless it was staged or in a movie seen these miracles. Do I believe they can happen? Yes, I know they can, only not the way I used to know from my KJV or NIV.

That time is still coming.

What "King James" gave us is a fairy tale complete with Mary "the tower" (Magdalene), Prince Jesus the Hero and "The Ogre" Satan. This story gives you a feel good ride and the basic message, but in the understanding department you are not given accurate account.

For Instance:
[color=#FFFFFF]Jesus cured people
KJV=Miracle/Mystically
Word for Word=He waited upon them menially and cared for them.

You can not blame what you see as a fairy tale on the KJV, the same story is found in the original scriptures, you either take it as it is, or you don't believe it all. He also did heal them...

43 And a woman having an issue of blood twelve years, which had spent all her living upon physicians, neither could be healed of any,
44 Came behind him, and touched the border of his garment: and immediately her issue of blood staunched.
45 And Jesus said, Who touched me? When all denied, Peter and they that were with him said, Master, the multitude throng thee and press thee, and sayest thou, Who touched me?
46 And Jesus said, Somebody hath touched me: for I perceive that virtue is gone out of me.
47 And when the woman saw that she was not hid, she came trembling, and falling down before him, she declared unto him before all the people for what cause she had touched him, and how she was healed immediately.

You can't explain that away by saying the scriptures meant he simply cared for her, or...

Matthew 12:13 Then saith he to the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it forth; and it was restored whole, like as the other.

He did a little more that wait on the guy menially, he restored his hand.

I do study the scriptures in the original languages, and I agree the KJV etc are not perfect in their translations, but they are pretty close for the most part.

Originally posted by letthereaderunderstand

Originally posted by doctorex
You missed out a few words when quoting Paul, he was not talking about "all scripture" as in everything written down, he actually narrowed down his point....

2TIMOTHY 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Where did I miss at?

"ALL Scripture is good for reproof and learning".

2Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

If God doesn't change and you've accepted Jesus death for your sin, then do you realize, you are responsible for his death as well as myself and everyone who's been "SAVED". If you don't give blood, you don't get blood and then your blood is on your own head(chief)?

Yes, my sins and your sins are the reason why Jesus had to die, so we are all responsible for the death of Jesus, he laid down his life to pay a price I myself could not pay, but I am not responsible for the death of anybody else, because none of them died for my sins.

Originally posted by doctorex

Originally posted by letthereaderunderstand
reply to post by doctorex

 

44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever.
The kings which "in the days of these kings" (the days in which God will set up his Kingdom) refers to is the 10 toes, the 10 kings that join and give their power to the beast in Revelation...

You just quoted, 44: And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever.
How will it never be destroyed if they give there power to the beast or where does it say "the kingdom(of these kings) will be set up, fall, and then be set up again"? The anti-christ spirit was in those days as well, so today. Understand who the "Anti-christ" is and that God's salvation is generation to generation forever. He does not change nor grow weary.

There is a time that will come when people are awake again, when the dead shall "live together with this body", and this will be the time of the true kingdom on earth, but that time comes in the ascension of generations, of the 70 Generations or 7's.

Be fruitful and multiply for the kingdom is inside, not out. Do you not know where you sit and that you are the body of those before you and you truly are a king of the earth, head of the house, the master of your domain? You are the mansion prepared for them that the son of man manifests? He said his kingdom was not of that time, and indeed his is a time that only the father can bring and give charge over such a moral character as to bring such peace to the flesh yet he dwells with the meak who inheret the earth...the earth you are made from.

The tree of life gives life and such is the family tree and its leaves give healing to the nations as "not one has come into the world if not through him". He is the gate of the sheepfold, and no one comes to the father if not though him. He says to "see what's in front of you and the rest will become clear". To give of yourself, is to suffer him as he has suffered you. "Worry not about tomorrow (or a future kingdom), for todays worries are sufficient." "Suffer the children to come unto me" "This old must put on new, and the corruptable the incorrupatable. His reward is with him..

Revelation 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
It is also mention later in the book of Daniel chapter 7. The kingdom of God is not some airy fairy feel good butterflies in your stomach, it will be a literal kingdom. That is what the Gospel (meaning good news) was proclaiming, the future kingdom of God. The book of Revelation describes this taking place...

Jesus and John both said: "The kingdom of God is at hand" "Turn from death and be saved" It is of very much importance to understand what being saved is and that "if possible even the elect would be fooled".
God dwells with the meek and with the rich, he picks up and he sets down, it is not something that is open to debate, it is individually dealt with for "his reward is with him". Do you not consider birth or the miracle of life? What is saved of you, for we are one in him, but the memory of you and that your name be written in the heavens of ascension?

The message of salvation, the Good News to be delivered two by two sent out, but yet one message delivered...the godspell...the encantation of life. How many will come to him and say, "when did we see you and feed you" to which he reply's "to the least of these, so also have you done it unto me"..."two by two"...there is a message you need to see. Life is a Pair-Able. Take root in the heal catcher, and blossom as He will rule as God. The spirit goes forward for it is the life worth more then the body, more then the ego for God does not recognize such. There is a scroll, a helix being carried to the end and in it are the past lives to be resurrected, all which he has kept and remembered. You are a pulse whose ripples effect the after life in memory, pray to be found in him through the generations.

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign forever and ever.
The last kingdoms of man will fight Christ at his return (and loose) , and Christ will rule for 1000 years (chapter 19 & 20)

Whose garments are bloody? Who has stomped all in his anger? The one from Edom, of Esau and of Ishmael. The only kingdom of man is in his mind. This is the battle waged to which such kingdom will be over thrown, to put away sin, by those faithful to life. He says, "you must first be faithful in the small things, then the rest will be given". There are 4 living creatures around the thrown, there are two olive trees that do not fail, there are 24 elders who cast there crowns at the feet of the living God and say, holy, holy, holy, holy, holy, holy, holy, holy, holy. The counsel, the conscience of the living God, who is the God of all men past present and future is life, not death and of inhabatence in the "good land, flowing with milk and blood", so that the two will become one.

Peace


[edit on 26-9-2008 by letthereaderunderstand]

Originally posted by letthereaderunderstand

Originally posted by doctorex
44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever.
The kings which "in the days of these kings" (the days in which God will set up his Kingdom) refers to is the 10 toes, the 10 kings that join and give their power to the beast in Revelation...

You just quoted, 44: And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever.

How will it never be destroyed if they give there power to the beast or where does it say "the kingdom(of these kings) will be set up, fall, and then be set up again"? The anti-christ spirit was in those days as well, so today. Understand who the "Anti-christ" is and that God's salvation is generation to generation forever. He does not change nor grow weary.

The Kingdom of God does not belong to these kings, it is during their reign (the beast) when God abolishes the kingdoms of man and sets up the kingdom of God, they are simply the last to rule during the age of man, it is their kingdom that will be the last kingdom of man, it too will be destroyed.

Be fruitful and multiply for the kingdom is inside, not out.

That is based on on mistranslation of Luke 17:22.

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

The greek word translated as Kingdom (baseliea) here is interchangeable with King, and the word translated as within (entos) also means in your midst, or in the midst of you, because the king was in their midst, He was right in front of them.

cf.blueletterbible.org...

cf.blueletterbible.org...

Scriptures talks over and over again of the resurrection of the dead, Christ returning to do away with age of the rule of man, those reigning on earth 1000 years with Christ at his return, the kingdom of God being set up on Earth. You can try and explain it away as some fuzzy feeling in your stomach but that contradicts scripture. Christ explained in parables that the kingdom was not to be set up until the end of the age, after he had risen to heaven (a far country) and returned...

LUKE 19:11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.
12 He said therefore, A certain noble man went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.
13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.
14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.
15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.
16 Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.
17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.
18 And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.
19 And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.
20 And another came, saying, Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin:
21 For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou laidst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow.
22 And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow:
23 Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury?
24 And he said unto them that stood by, Take from him the pound, and give it to him that hath ten pounds.
25 (And they said unto him, Lord, he hath ten pounds.)
26 For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.
27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

The kingdom was at hand for those during the time of Christ, it has been at hand for all those who ever lived, since they make their decisions during their lifetime, decisions that decide whether or not they are part of the first resurrection, to reign with Christ, or 1000 years later at the judgment.

reply to post by MorningStar8741

Exactly. Do you not realize just how much any story can be altered by omitting parts of it? Have you never seen the effects of editing to completely change the meaning of anything? There is a reason someoe did not want certain things in there. Why not, if they were true? The fact is that some MEN did not like them, did not allow them to be passed on and therefore what you have is barely a joke of what the bible should be and should be held with as much regard. It is the collection of men's ideas about what they want you to think about religion. How that is in any way ok with you is beyond me but so be it. It is your "religion."

These are all valid arguments,and i agree with you.All scriptures,of any religion,are written by men,many have been altered by corrupt men,but that doesn't mean all truth has been lost.And if you read the other scriptures (dead sea scrolls etc) you will see some of the truth in them reflected in the KJV bible.

"For many will accept our teaching in the beginning. And they will turn from them again by the will of the Father of their error, because they have done what he wanted. And he will reveal them in his judgment, i.e., the servants of the Word. But those who became mingled with these shall become their prisoners, since they are without perception. And the guileless, good, pure one they push to the worker of death, and to the kingdom of those who praise Christ in a restoration. And they praise the men of the propagation of falsehood, those who will come after you. And they will cleave to the name of a dead man, thinking that they will become pure. But they will become greatly defiled and they will fall into a name of error, and into the hand of an evil, cunning man and a manifold dogma, and they will be ruled without law."

"For some of them will blaspheme the truth and proclaim evil teaching. And they will say evil things against each other. Some will be named: (those) who stand in (the) strength of the archons, of a man and a naked woman who is manifold and subject to much suffering. And those who say these things will ask about dreams. And if they say that a dream came from a demon worthy of their error, then they shall be given perdition instead of incorruption."

"For evil cannot produce good fruit. For the place from which each of them is produces that which is like itself; for not every soul is of the truth, nor of immortality. For every soul of these ages has death assigned to it in our view, because it is always a slave, since it is created for its desires and their eternal destruction, in which they are and from which they are. They love the creatures of the matter which came forth with them."

www.gnosis.org...

Sound familiar??

Double post.Sorry






[edit on 26-9-2008 by jakyll]