Something Wicked Dwells Within.

Wow, OP, that is some profound info, if it's indeed true (I don't have any bibles to look it up right now)

This particularly struck me(emphasis mine):

Luke 11:2
KJV.And he said unto them,When ye pray,say,Our Father which art in heaven,Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come.Thy will be done,as in heaven,so in earth.

As above, so below?!?

Anyways, just curious OP have you compared KJV to some of the really modern versions, like "The Message," which are a complete deviation from the original?

I thought you were arguing Mary had children before Yeshua. She did have children afterward, probably...sorry about that one...

S'ok

I'm not trying to be condemning towards your views, or you, I just am trying to get to the core of where you're going with this.

Furthermore, did you ever think that perhaps the translators of the Bible for the KJV took liberties? It's also true that they had way fewer manuscripts to go by. No original manuscripts exist, but when the thousands are put together and distilled, the original works for the most part shine through.

I know,and i can understand your arguments.As AshleyD said,this topic usually leads to arguments but I'm hoping for more of a civil discussion.

As mentioned in a previous post,the KJV comes from the William Tyndale bible and,contrary to what you believe he had access to original and copies of original scriptures.He completed the NT and the 1st 5 books of the OT before he was betrayed and burnt to death as a heretic.
His work became the foundation of the KJV.The translators commissioned by the King worked mainly on the books Tyndale didn't translate,the sources for these books come from later latin texts.


Its also important to remember what i said in the OP about the method of translation,this has a huge impact on the translations of today.The people behind the NIV have used a method that cares more for the thought and the feeling of a verse rather than copying word for word.Do you not find that important,that a book that is the guide and strength to billions of people has not been copied word for word,but has been changed so the translators can convey something they can't possibly know anything about??

NOTurTypical.

Thank you for the links you've posted.Not had a chance to read all of it yet,but i will.

Lexicons corrupt the word of God

I think that many people don't realize that a lexicon's function is as an index to the Bible and is not there to provide content or commentary.




asmeone2.

As above, so below?!?

I would say that is linked to the verse that says whatever holds true on earth holds true in heaven.(it goes something like that.)

Anyways, just curious OP have you compared KJV to some of the really modern versions, like "The Message," which are a complete deviation from the original?

I have,and have laughed myself silly while doing it.The Message is completly off the map!

My reason for naming versions such as the NIV is because they are the most widely used and therefore will impact on the lives of more people.

Originally posted by asmeone2
Wow, OP, that is some profound info, if it's indeed true (I don't have any bibles to look it up right now)

This particularly struck me(emphasis mine):

Luke 11:2
KJV.And he said unto them,When ye pray,say,Our Father which art in heaven,Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come.Thy will be done,as in heaven,so in earth.

As above, so below?!?

The key to understanding that verse is the previous sentence....

Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.

reply to post by doctorex


Can you elaborate on what your personal opinion of the meaning is, then? If you're implying that I should know something less than obvious, then you're totally lost on me.

I am not a Christian but to me, it is just one more thing in the Bible that speaks to the existance of multiple dimensions--without going into too much detail, the implication that I get is that there are multiple worlds/dimesions ("heaven") which all follow the same kind of pattern.

Peace All

I would ask you to consider one thing....God gave you everything you need to survive at birth...no need for a book to know God. Another surprising fact, when you die...the book stays with the physical body, no matter if it is KJV, NKJV, NIV, NIB, LT, YLT, CLV, NAS, even if it is "the necrinomicon". What do you think is being spoken of when talking about "the doctrines of men"? Paul said, that "ALL SCRIPTURE", meaning not only "christian letters", but "ALL Scripture is good for reproof and learning".

The King James Version...Wasn't it nice, of a King no less, to commission a bible to be translated, so that the common man may be able to PURCHASE the holy word for themselves, even though most couldn't read? Better yet, Shakespeare I believe, had a lot to do with helping the the kings court to publish it...."Thy Kingdome Cometh".

How weird, you would think there would be political reasons for such an endevor like, keeping people submissive to the King or the Vatican...wait a minute here....argh...they got me again.

I'll get you King James....if it's the last thing I do....I'll get you.....

Peace

Originally posted by doctorex

Originally posted by asmeone2

The key to understanding that verse is the previous sentence....

Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.

And if the Kingdom of Heaven is inside you, then how does the Kingdom come? Do you know how one becomes, "like a child"? Remember what Jesus said to Nicodemus, "How can I explain Heavenly things, when you don't even know earthly things?" God says, "My salvation is Generation to Generation perpetual"...

If Jesus only came to save that which was lost, then according to gods statement above..."My salvation is Generation to Generation"...who are the lost? Would it not be the ones in danger of not "bearing fruit" or being "childless"? Is the abomination of Desolation becoming clearer yet?

"As in Heaven, So in earth"...."And my reward is with me" "Eye for an Eye" "There shall be two in bed, one taken and the other one left" "In that day know one will say "Know the Lord"....for I am in their midsts"...

Peace

reply to post by letthereaderunderstand

God gave you everything you need to survive at birth...no need for a book to know God.

That's not what Jesus said:

"... It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God."

Luke 4:4

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by letthereaderunderstand

 

God gave you everything you need to survive at birth...no need for a book to know God.

That's not what Jesus said:

"... It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God."

Luke 4:4

"My food is to DO THE WILL of the one sending me"...

I wasn't quoting Jesus, but I will if you would like.

Regarding Scripture:
"Take no scripts with you, nor purse, nor...."
"Do not premeditate what you will say, but whatever is given you in that hour...speak"
"God's words are spirit, not flesh; the flesh profits NOTHING"
"In the beginning is the word, and the word is with God and the word is God.....and he was made manifest in the flesh"
"You search the scriptures, for in them you suppose you have eternal life..."

Regarding the word:
"His voice is like a rushing waters"
"His voice is like a trumpet"
"His voice is as if many voices"
"I am calling to you by your name. I am titling you, yet you do not know me"
"And I give to you treasures of darkness. And those buried in concealment will I open for you that you may know that I, Yahweh Elohim, calling you by your name, am the Elohim of Ishrael.

When it says, "...but by every word of God"...is Jesus speaking of the bible as the "word" or is he speaking of the bible as "bread"?

His word is spoken to you. His word is real. The Book is not required for salvation, nor is any book and most assuredly, not a man.

"Why do you call me Good, not one is good except God in heaven..." Jesus

Peace

Originally posted by asmeone2
reply to post by doctorex

 

Can you elaborate on what your personal opinion of the meaning is, then? If you're implying that I should know something less than obvious, then you're totally lost on me.

I am not a Christian but to me, it is just one more thing in the Bible that speaks to the existance of multiple dimensions--without going into too much detail, the implication that I get is that there are multiple worlds/dimesions ("heaven") which all follow the same kind of pattern.

This earth is currently ruled by Man, influenced by Satan, it is not the Kingdom of God. The kingdom of God is coming.... "Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven".


Daniel 2:31 Thou, O king, sawest, and behold a great image. This great image, whose brightness was excellent, stood before thee; and the form thereof was terrible.
32 This image's head was of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass,
33 His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay.
34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and broke them to pieces.
35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.

[....]

40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things : and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.
41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.
42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.
43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.
44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever.
45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it broke in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.

Originally posted by letthereaderunderstand

Originally posted by doctorex


The key to understanding that verse is the previous sentence....

Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.

And if the Kingdom of Heaven is inside you, then how does the Kingdom come?

I didn't mean the kingdom of God is inside you, I meant it is coming, a literal kingdom on Earth....

Revelation 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

[edit on 24/9/08 by doctorex]

reply to post by letthereaderunderstand

I would ask you to consider one thing....God gave you everything you need to survive at birth...no need for a book to know God. Another surprising fact, when you die...the book stays with the physical body, no matter if it is KJV, NKJV, NIV, NIB, LT, YLT, CLV, NAS, even if it is "the necrinomicon". What do you think is being spoken of when talking about "the doctrines of men"? Paul said, that "ALL SCRIPTURE", meaning not only "christian letters", but "ALL Scripture is good for reproof and learning".

True,the book stays behind,but the knowledge within it goes with you.The bible is a guide,without it millions of people would lose their way.

"All Scripture" does not mean that which is false or that which has been manipulated by the hands of man.Such knowledge is either of little use or the cause of corruption.

reply to post by letthereaderunderstand

I would ask you to consider one thing....God gave you everything you need to survive at birth...no need for a book to know God. Another surprising fact, when you die...the book stays with the physical body, no matter if it is KJV, NKJV, NIV, NIB, LT, YLT, CLV, NAS, even if it is "the necrinomicon". What do you think is being spoken of when talking about "the doctrines of men"? Paul said, that "ALL SCRIPTURE", meaning not only "christian letters", but "ALL Scripture is good for reproof and learning".

You missed out a few words when quoting Paul, he was not talking about "all scripture" as in everything written down, he actually narrowed down his point....

2TIMOTHY 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

reply to post by doctorex


Hey doctorex and many blessings.

I wasn't aware that there were different "Kingdom's of Heaven". As I understand it, we are the Kingdom. You are a King and a Priest. As I understand it, Jesus was always speaking of the temple of the body, yet everyone else was awaiting the "fictitious" Kingdom from out of the sky. Most "Christians" are on this boat...waiting for the Kingdom Come.

You will never see the kingdom you are talking about because it is fictitious. Remember God is True. You need to first see what is true, but to do this, you have to "sell all that you have" known, give that to the poor and follow him if you have ears to hear him speak.

All of his acts, he said we would do and greater. That's hard to understand with the modern christian view, unless you study to find out, "to cure", simply means "to wait on as a slave" and not mystically.

Have you ever seen a blind man receive site or a Demon exorcised or a leper cleansed or the Dead raised...be truthful. I have not unless it was staged or in a movie seen these miracles. Do I believe they can happen? Yes, I know they can, only not the way I used to know from my KJV or NIV.

What "King James" gave us is a fairy tale complete with Mary "the tower" (Magdalene), Prince Jesus the Hero and "The Ogre" Satan. This story gives you a feel good ride and the basic message, but in the understanding department you are not given accurate account.

For Instance:
[color=#FFFFFF]Jesus cured people
KJV=Miracle/Mystically
Word for Word=He waited upon them menially and cared for them.

[color=#FFFFFF]Jesus raises the Dead
KJV=Miracle/Zombie back alive
Word for Word=He is roused out of those who are in danger of dropping the "Baal" or "Blood"

[color=#FFFFFF]People/Places/Things
KJV=Galilee (of the nations)
Word for Word=Heathen Circle (of the nations)


KJV=Jordan
Word for Word=Descender
(Now crossing the Jordan makes a little more sense...Crossing Descendence...or "who can ascend, but he who First DESCENDS"

KJV=Egypt
Word for Word=Mitzraim=Mariam=Mary
("Out of Egypt/Mary I have called my servant")

KJV=Jerusalem
Word for Word="Founded Peaceful"

KJV=Danial
Word for Word="Judge of God"

KJV=Able
Word for Word="Hable"=Arrogant/Con seeded

KJV=Noah
Word for Word="Noakh"= Rest

and so on and so forth and these are the short versions. The original languages are the only way to study or else you loose the most important details of the story and how they actually apply to you.

If you've seen my other posts, you know I always post this, but this is a great resource for study.scripture4all.org...

Peace

Originally posted by doctorex
reply to post by letthereaderunderstand

 

You missed out a few words when quoting Paul, he was not talking about "all scripture" as in everything written down, he actually narrowed down his point....

2TIMOTHY 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Where did I miss at?

Why does Jesus tell us to let our yes be our yes and no be no, as everything else is of the devil? Do you know why?

Because, "Every word that comes from the mouth of God must be fulfilled", so because he is true, all words must be justified or "Evening"...this is why there are so many proverbs about fools and the mouths they run.

Apart from him there is no Life and you behold him yet you don't know it...He is the Lord of HOSTS. He is the only salvation there is. "Forbid not the children to come unto me" or your not going to have a mansion in Heaven. The two becoming one flesh is exactly what it sounds like. 23 from you, 23 from her and the 46 becomes One flesh...(baby wipes not included) and bam we are off and running following the "son of man". That is the truth, but that is not what "the seat of Satan" wants you to know. They want you to keep thinking in complete non reality, but only "the truth will set you free".

People look for God to perform forgetting the miracle of life itself is given by him.

If God doesn't change and you've accepted Jesus death for your sin, then do you realize, you are responsible for his death as well as myself and everyone who's been "SAVED". If you don't give blood, you don't get blood and then your blood is on your own head(chief)?

"Be fruitful...and multiply"

reply to post by jakyll


Peace Jakyl

Have you ever seen God hand someone a book? All scripture has been "manipulated" by man. The true word of Gods mouth is from his mouth, not a book. I can witness of this to you and be true. You don't know if that is true or not, my statement that is, but I do. I witness to you of his title "Self existent" G-d, Yahweh, Jah, Yah, Eloah, Elohim, Anukki, the great spirit, brama, but only I know his name. He called me in it. He calls us all by name.

Peace

[edit on 24-9-2008 by letthereaderunderstand]

jackyll: Somewhat off topic, but you may be interested to know that "Gay Church" exists, and that there is an interesting individual named Sy Rogers (who happens to be speaking in my school's chapel) who is a former homosexual/transsexual, who has lots of information that really could help you relate to the Bible.

www.stonewallrevisited.com...
www.syrogers.com...

And just an FYI: those who say "God hates gays" are wrong. God loves everyone. Why else would he send Jesus to pay the debt for the collective sin of all mankind? All sin is equal in the eyes of God, and Jesus forgives all sins, outside of the sin of not accepting Him.

reply to post by letthereaderunderstand

Have you ever seen God hand someone a book? All scripture has been "manipulated" by man. The true word of Gods mouth is from his mouth, not a book. I can witness of this to you and be true. You don't know if that is true or not, my statement that is, but I do. I witness to you of his title "Self existent" G-d, Yahweh, Jah, Yah, Eloah, Elohim, Anukki, the great spirit, brama, but only I know his name. He called me in it.

No one saw God pass the 10 Commandments onto Moses.

But i understand what you're getting at.Although you seem to be forgetting that a lot of what is in the bible comes from prophets,people who claimed that God spoke to them.Of course things get lost in translation and man twists things for his own glory with hardly giving God a thought,but not all people are alike.Some find it hard to be spiritual so they rely on scriptures.Knowledge is important and we have to keep on the page what we can't fit in our heads.

reply to post by joesomebody



Thanks for the links an all,but i have no problem relating to the Bible.I'm also comfortable with who i am an have no desire to change


I agree with your view on God not hating gays.Many people think that because homosexuality is seen as a sin then God and Jesus must be homophobes too.I guess they look at it that way so they can justify their views and behavior.

Originally posted by Clearskies


Zondervan also publishes the satanic Bible.

The fact that Harper Collins publishes both bibles should not trouble anyone for any reason. They do not claim to be a Christian corporation, they are a capitalist corporation. Both books will almost certainly always sell, they are in business to sell books people are going to buy. There is no more to it than that.

I am rather curious though what makes anyone think that KJV is any more reliable than this new version. Have you seen every revision of the bible throughout history? Have you translated the original transcripts? No. I would say this new bible is every bit as reliable as KJV. Bother were edited by men to represent the best interests of those men.

Otherwise, there would have been no debate about which books to include and which not too. Why even discuss that if you mission is to bring the untarnished word of God to the people?