why did He bother giving us free will if He is just going to kill us if we choose sin???

why did God even bother giving us free will if He is just going to kill us if we choose sin???

some people think that God loved us so much that he gave us the choice of choosing sin over God or God over sin.

ok...

but if he loves us if we choose sin (or get tempted and accept) why does He kill the people that choose sin???

examples:

He flooded the ENTIRE world just because some people were choosing sin over Him

He destroyed Soddum and Gumorah just because people were choosing sin over Him

there are also other examples in the Bible and you just have to look...

God & Freewill? I quote myself from the "God can make better decisions then you" thread.

There are three possibilities:
We don't have freewill and god has planned for his children to harm one another (ie sin).
We do have freewill and god does not love us (because he is not protecting his children by giving them the option to harm one another).
OR
God does not exist.

[Edited on 22-3-2004 by Jonna]

Excellent Question!

Why do we have freewill. Why not make robots.
You have something that God wants, but he can't force you to give, that being love for Him. If he forced it, it wouldn't be love in the way he wants it. I think you can relate to this in your relationships with others.

I agree, It's Gods fault that we are made so it is easy to sin. So, I guess it would only be fair if He was punished instead of us. Yeah, God should have to die for sin instead of us since its not our fault......

Wait, that's exactly what He did.

I'll admit I don't fully understand why it's done that way. Its hard to believe that this was the best way. Listen to this, much better explination than I can give.

That's a very good question. One I've pondered over many, many times, myself.

I'm a Christian, but there are times I just feel like this is one big game of chess between two entities who use us as pawns.

Here's a question: Why should God bother with Satan at all? Why give him an audience and ponder his taunts? (Think: Job - a story I find little or no solace in. Although God blessed Job with even more family and fortune, that could never blot out the pain and suffering that poor man had to endure.)

Some things we must take on faith. We will only know the answers when we are in His presence.

I've foten thought aboutt this often too. It's just one of those big philosophical questions that have to be thoguht about, because there is no real answer and no one will ever know the answer untill they pass away.

And after many a time of pondering, I have come to some simple solution:

There is no such thing as free will because god in his infinite wisdom already knows the outcome of every event that has or will take place., and not only that but they happen as a result of him existing as he created us and so we are simply acting out his will no matter how evil or good we are.

This would lead me to beleive that there therefore cannot be such a place as HELL because no one is ever really evil, and because no one really has such a thing as free will. And, it would also mean that there is no devil, because correct me if i'm wrong but god is too mighty and powerful to let any other being/fallen angel/entity have any influence over us.

So there is no free will, imagine life as a multiple choice question paper. You have the 'FREE WILL' to choose which one you want as the answer. But never the less your outcome is already expected no matter how unlikely they may be.

In closing, this would mean FREE WILL IS AN ILLUSION!!! (don't mean to sound too matrix)

Hope you have enjoyed my opinion, Ja Bless.

Yea he realised he made us overly free willed and came down as Jesus to see for himself why his creations made in his own image liked to sin. After doing so he died on the cross in an effort to show us that he was real and now understood us and forigve us if we just belive in him (in the God form and Jesus form). Beliving in Jesus is still only believing in one god, just realizing the one god came down in our form to spend some time with us and died for our sinful free will nature.

Just a big show of love is all it was. So you see you have an out.. He didnt just give us free will to kill us if we sinned. He tried the old law and it did not work so he came down and changed it in person.
If you believe you wont sin as much (your free will will change).. You will continue to sin though. Believe and your forgiven. He made us to free willed for our own good heh.

Oh yea these thoughts are my own and their is no proof just my point of view.


[Edited on 22-3-2004 by Xeven]

He tried the old law and it did not work so he came down and changed it in person.

So he thought it would work but it didnt is that what you are saying?

Originally posted by Amuk

He tried the old law and it did not work so he came down and changed it in person.

So he thought it would work but it didnt is that what you are saying?

Yes that is what I think.

Originally posted by Xeven
Just a big show of love is all it was. So you see you have an out.. He didnt just give us free will to kill us if we sinned. He tried the old law and it did not work so he came down and changed it in person.
If you believe you wont sin as much (your free will will change).. You will continue to sin though. Believe and your forgiven. He made us to smart for our own good heh.

Bah, a god who makes mistakes and has to correct it is not a god I really want to believe in...shouldn't that god be perfect? shouldn't he have realized that the old law would not work.

Also, a perfect god is not a vindictive god, which the god of the old testament surely is. It doesn't matter what he did after the fact, but he drowned the entire world. That's pretty damn vinidictive if you ask me.

Originally posted by Xeven

Originally posted by Amuk

He tried the old law and it did not work so he came down and changed it in person.

So he thought it would work but it didnt is that what you are saying?

Yes that is what I think.

So God was wrong? He made a mistake? I thought he was all powerful

Ok maybe we should wonder..... WHY does a perfect being NEED? Why does a perfect being need love and worship? Why does a perfect being create sin? A perfect being should not NEED sacrifice, love, company, food, drink. Even better a perfect god should not be jealous........ whats to be jealous of if no one is as perfect.

There is no perfect being. Unless this is just some sick game for his amusement. Like us keeping one of those Milton Bradly ant farms! Some weird science experiment gone horribly wrong.

Originally posted by favouriteslave
Ok maybe we should wonder..... WHY does a perfect being NEED? Why does a perfect being need love and worship? Why does a perfect being create sin? A perfect being should not NEED sacrifice, love, company, food, drink. Even better a perfect god should not be jealous........ whats to be jealous of if no one is as perfect.

There is no perfect being. Unless this is just some sick game for his amusement. Like us keeping one of those Milton Bradly ant farms! Some weird science experiment gone horribly wrong.

I wont pretend to know all about god but I believe the answers lie in our evolution and learning about the universe he created. I also do not take the entire bible literally much of it imo has been edited to suit the needs of the editor. Ever play a game and totaly ruin the fun by cheating or turning on god mode/cheat codes heh?

Originally posted by meddled

Originally posted by Xeven
Just a big show of love is all it was. So you see you have an out.. He didnt just give us free will to kill us if we sinned. He tried the old law and it did not work so he came down and changed it in person.
If you believe you wont sin as much (your free will will change).. You will continue to sin though. Believe and your forgiven. He made us to smart for our own good heh.

Bah, a god who makes mistakes and has to correct it is not a god I really want to believe in...shouldn't that god be perfect? shouldn't he have realized that the old law would not work.

Also, a perfect god is not a vindictive god, which the god of the old testament surely is. It doesn't matter what he did after the fact, but he drowned the entire world. That's pretty damn vinidictive if you ask me.

Perfection has to be inperfect

Also about the drownding god gave them the chance to believe and follow his teachings

If you worship false gods then the youth would automaticly worship false gods and go to hell

Basicly by drownding the false worshippers he allowed any youth to have the chance to worship the real god and save themselfs

Remember that kitch saying

If you love something set it free, if it comes back to your it's yours, if it doesn't hunt it down

ahhh, no not that one, this one...

If you love something set it free, if it comes back to your it's yours, if it doesn't it never was

Its a similar rule to your question. If God creates a being that never is able to choose who or what it wants to worship and obey then you have made a robot.

Free will gives you the chance to make the choice.

Now its YOU that makes the choice, not God, nor anyone else, but its your free will that is doing the deciding. If you chose NOT to follow God then you can hardly complain about the outcome, after all you know what the result will be. People have been telling about it for the last 4000 years.

He doesn't "kill us if we choose sin" you kill YOURSELF. As its you that chooses NOT to follow God.

If you have a pet that can't live outside, and you love it enough to let it choose where it wants to live, then its the choice of the being to either die in the cold or live in the warmth. You are not held to blame if your pet has been fairly given the choice and with full knowledge chooses death.


In the end God's purpose is to create a people from all nations who follow him to build a new jerusalem and to serve him. Its your choice if you want to be one of them or not. You are a long time dead with the choice you make, why do you think that so many people over so many years, have told people about it?

The world you are in is a war. There are two sides, one side has already lost but they are taking as many people as they can with them. You are in some way a thinking pawn, although you are manipulated by the waring sides ultimatly you decide your own fate.

"why did God even bother giving us free will if He is just going to kill us if we choose sin??? " == they see all

The answer, as in all things, is there if you really look for it. I normally don't post
in this area but I will, just to show all topics carry necessary interest.

Besides, I like to tell stories and this one is a favorite.

Once upon a time in a physics lab in a college far away, a student assistant asked
his evangelical professor the Same Question, while setting up a demonstration with polarized light.
"Well," said the professor, "lets say we are doing the will of God right now. And
lets further say God is in the room over there that we are sending the polarized light
into. We are about to send some light through this filter and the polarized light
will go into the room with God. Lets pretend that each light photon is a person
with free will, and those that get thru the filter all have the property of aligning their will
with the will of God." ( The professor turns on the light source, and seems to
be unsatisfied with the polarized light entering "God's" room. He goes into
"God's" room and returns with a complicated set of optics. He now uses this as
the filter and the polarized beam is intensified. Having worked with the professor regularly,
the student knows there was a point to this demonstration.)
"I give up. Whats the point?" asked the student. The professor grins and says "the first
single element filter did not pass the amount that God needs. So he gave us
a better filter." "So," the student states, "the filters represent an entire universe
just to give God a polarized light beam?" The professor shakes his head in the
negative. "Son, they can represent anything you like, but I was being more
specific than that. To me, the first filter was Judaic Law, and the second was
the Messiah. I made the point of going into God's room to get it."
Feeling a little mischievous, the student quickly adds: "Ok, why even do this
demonstration if God knows everything right down to what each photon
will decide? That's pointless." The professor winks, and chuckles. "Knowing
and Having are not the same thing." The student makes a final retort. "But
what about all the photons that didn't make it. They are wasted." "Really,"
a surprised professor sternly glares at the student. "Look around you. Those
are the photons we see by in this room. There is no waste. They simply chose
not to be with God."


/\/ight\/\/ing

[Edited on 22-3-2004 by nightwing]

well God is omnipotent so he probably had the forsight to know that man wouldnt change his ways, so, in the case of the flood he wiped the slate clean so to speak. Only saving Noah his family and enough animals so as not to completely depopulate the earth.

Why would He give us free will if he was just going to let everybody into heaven. Then life would just be pointless

So God was wrong? He made a mistake? I thought he was all powerful


No he didnt make a mistake he gave us free will. He wants us to make our own choices but when it became to bad down here he chose the least intrusive message i guess.

[Edited on 23-3-2004 by JON]

To answer the question.


Because sin destroys us.


look at every command, and ask yourself [why] to all of them, and if you have a sincere heart you will understand.




hes telling us whats good for us and we question it without understanding it. if the entire world lived by jesus teachings or the 10 commands
then this world would be the kingdom on earth,but people hate the commands and is the world today not filthy and rotten?


ofcourse it is. I can see this and i grew up in the 90s. its just we don't see the commands as [guides] to perfection given by our God,your creator, but
we see them as [hard] rules,and this is where pride steps in that we don't want anybody telling us what to do.


God loves us and knows whats best,yet, we never see it this way.


ask yourself with any sin.

where will doing this end up?




peace

I personally just wonder what kind of mentality god has. Job was the same Job he was after the suffering as he was before, no?

Don't remember where I read this, but here's the gist.

God sets man and woman down in the garden and says basically "do whatever you like, oh, but just don't eat from that big, juicy-lookin' tree over there", and disappears. Of course, left alone and given a command not to do something with no justification why not, and being created with human curiosity (and appetite!), they stroll on over and take a big bite. God jumps out from behind a metaphorical bush and says "Gotcha!". It was a setup from the very beginning!

I'm a christian but I do have majors problems with Christianty.

You know I hate to say it it but a lot of the time I hate God and the whole Christian thing. Read Job and tell me you're not sickened. Ruining you most loyal worshiper's life for a bet with Satan?!? And this is the GOOD guy?!

Or take this little situation. There's two guys. The first one is a loving caring, wonderful man who's spent his whole life helping others. He gives money to charities, he takes in and nurses back to health hurt animals, he helps little old lady across the street. He's the nicest friendliest man you'll ever meet. He's teh type of person everyone wants as a best friend. But he's not Christian. Or he's gay or any other of the things that Christians find wrong.

Now take guy number two. He's a cruel rotten, evil man. Since he was a child he's broken every law he can manage, he steals, kills, rapes, and does every bad thing possible. He's made it his life gole to break every rule, comment every sin, and invent some new ones if he can. Then in jail say he finds God. Gets saved and becomes a Christian. Then by what the Bible says Guy number two gets into heaven but guy number one doesn't.

Does that seem like a loving good God? Let the guy who's done nothing but good suffer in hell forever but the guy who's done nothing but bad gets to live in Heaven forever?

To me the whole Christian thing a lot of the time makes God sound like a toddler having a fit. "You won't do what I say? You won't follow me? Then suffer forever!!!"

What really truly good God would send MOST of the world to hell just for not worshiping him? What good God would send good and loving people to Hell just because HE made them love the same gender? I can't and won't believe the real God is like that. Cause if he is I'd rather suffer in Hell then spend forever with someone like that.

*sits back and waits to be flamed for her post*