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The Sins of Scripture

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posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 04:27 PM
Surveying the great conflicts in western history, we can see the Bible playing a central role, if not a supporting one. For instance, the Bible was used to oppose the Magna Carta and support the divine right of kings, to condemn the insights of Galileo and Charles Darwin, and to support slavery and later apartheid and segregation. Christian leaders used the Bible to justify the Crusades and their unspeakable horrors against Muslim peoples, as well as the murderous behavior of the Inquisition and the virulent anti-semitism of the Holocaust. The Bible is still quoted in the church to justify treating women as 2nd-class citizens. Today it is the chief weapon of politicians and preachers seeking to deny justice for gay and lesbian people. In addition, the Christian church, while claiming allegiance to this book, has encouraged the abuse of children and supported environmental degradation. How can a book called "The Word of God" leave a trail of such violence, hostility, and death throughout it's history?

This central question is covered by Episcopal Bishop, John Shelby Spong in his thought provoking book, The Sins of Scripture

I thought this channel of the forum would be a good place to present this inquiry for further discussion.

And i'll start off with one of my own.
Has the bible been used for more good then bad in the world, or visa versa?

[edit on 22-9-2008 by The All Seeing I]

posted on Sep, 23 2008 @ 12:14 AM
To me it is all in how you look at it. The Bible has more power to destroy or help those who have read it. The bible did not kill or hurt anyone it was the people who read it and acted upon what they thought it said. Just because someone tells you to do this it is still your decision to do so. The Bible is read by many different people and has a power but can not be blamed for how people act.

posted on Sep, 23 2008 @ 11:22 AM
I was coming from the perspective of the Bible being an instruction manual of sorts, that gives direction/meaning/purpose to life. When you have schools, churches and bible study groups assisting/encouraging people to apply the scriptures/values to ones life... it gives shape to every aspect of our lives; from our foreign policies we embrace to the quality of treatment we show our fellow wo/man; minorities, foreigners, sexual orientations, agnostics/atheists/other-religion-believers etc

Free-will to be a free-thinker is not always an option. The bulk of followers subscribe to the sermon of their choice, but "choice" is not exact the right word to describe the introduction of scripture to let's say a grade schooler. Children generally absorb everything like a sponge... with this fact in view you could say that "free-will to be a free-thinker" is not an option, for before someone has had a chance to formulate their own thoughts and opinions of the world they have already been handed a filter through which to see the world in a certain way. In other words, limiting the scope from which one sees reality.

[edit on 23-9-2008 by The All Seeing I]

posted on Sep, 24 2008 @ 01:42 PM
But it is not just the Bible that is the problem. There are those who have not even read the bible that has the same values of the Bible. I was raised in a semi-religious household. I know most of what the bible says and I still make my own choices. I know alot of what i do is not looked upon with favor by others. Both chirstian or otherwise. I am just saying you can make the some choices no matter what book you have read. Be it the bible or the koran or whatever. People just use the bible or whatever to justify their actions. Even if the bible did not exist we would be having this dicussion about some other book. Or would we I do not know.

posted on Sep, 24 2008 @ 11:57 PM
The Bible plays many different roles...

1. Bible and Pastor as a guide from which people shape their lives and the lives of their children.

2. People using the Bible as a tool to manipulate the masses (see 1)

3. People using the Bible to justify their character flaws

and as you eloquently pointed out...
we can see the same influencing factors at work in other religious scriptures... whether it be the koran, bhagavad gita, tanakh or dianetics... so i think you may be right... we would most likely create another oracle and misuse it in similar ways.

Though i think the devil is revealed in how each religion...
despite their similarities have also created many differences in the values and perspectives of their followers. In other words, muslims, christains, jews, hindus, buddists, scientologists all have varying ideals, which have been expressed throughout history in varying degrees of good and bad deeds.

So for those of you who think i am singling out the Bible, you are right, but not for the reasons you may be assuming. It just happens to be one of the most influential books in all of history.

[edit on 25-9-2008 by The All Seeing I]

posted on Sep, 25 2008 @ 10:01 PM
this about sums it up lol

posted on Sep, 25 2008 @ 10:27 PM
reply to post by The All Seeing I

No, it doesn't 'sum' it up.
The Old Testament had certain laws that were changed when the Temple in Jerusalem was misused and later destroyed.
Life has all those things written on that fallacious warning label, yet, we still live it.
How in the world was early America not turned into a horrible, den of wickedness with all the Bibles in school?

posted on Sep, 26 2008 @ 07:53 AM
Please elaborate... i am a bit confused?

Are you suggesting that there was once a better version of the bible and if the better version was untouched we would have a better script from which to guide or lives... in turn making a better world?

As for "early America not turned into a horrible, den of wickedness with all the Bibles in school?" ...suggests that you think the bible kept this country on a higher ground. Though i see the bible was used in large part to justify our treatment of the indians, african slaves, women... all three pretty horrible and wicked in my opinion.

[edit on 26-9-2008 by The All Seeing I]

posted on Sep, 26 2008 @ 08:37 AM
reply to post by The All Seeing I

The wars between the indians and the settlers was a sad story of both sides.
I am part Cherokee, but, I know of the atrocities on BOTH sides.

In Jamestown, I believe there were NO slaves at first.
Four centuries

On both counts, tradition deceives. Rather than enslaved, the Africans were compelled into a period of indentured servitude--after which they became landowning members of the community.

There were also indentured Irish, English and others servants, but, not usually by Puritans, Pilgrims or Quakers, that I know of.

How were women abused at large, in your opinion?
You also have to note that not all newcomers were even nominally Christian.

posted on Sep, 26 2008 @ 09:21 AM

Slavery in the United States began soon after English colonists first settled Virginia in 1607 and lasted until the passage of the Thirteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution in 1865. Before the widespread establishment of chattel slavery, much labor was organized under a system of bonded labor known as indentured servitude. This typically lasted for several years for white and black alike, and it was a means of using labor to pay the costs of transporting people to the colonies. By the 18th century, court rulings established the racial basis of the American incarnation of slavery to apply chiefly to Black Africans and people of African descent, and occasionally to Native Americans.
( )

as for women... was thought that there was no reason a woman should know how to write. Writing was the prerogative of men. A woman was expected to be subservient to her father until she married and then to her husband. Ministers often reminded their flock that women were inferior to men and more inclined to sin and error.
( )

...and i think the "Salem witch trials" provides an accurate picture of the mentality of the day. Charges of witchcraft were a way of controlling women who threatened the existing economic and social order.

[edit on 26-9-2008 by The All Seeing I]

posted on Sep, 28 2008 @ 09:49 PM
From another angle, and yet just as valid a point if not more dire/important is this acknowledgement...

The Bible tells us to be like God, and then on page after page it describes God as a mass murderer. This may be the single most important key to the political behavior of Western Civilization. ~Robert Anton Wilson

posted on Oct, 8 2008 @ 01:22 PM
Ran across this interesting quote today...

"Religion is an insult to human dignity. Without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."
- Steven Weinberg -

...though i think it could be said that religion has changed some evil people for the better. The temptation of heaven and threat of hell are strong motivators for many. Yet i question how good of a person is ... if these are hidden motives to push people to "act" good.

posted on Oct, 13 2008 @ 01:42 AM
reply to post by The All Seeing I

I'd argue that all those horrors and abuses came about because people were NOT following the teachings of Christ.

I mean, I can say I follow Islam, but If my actions are 100% contrary to the teachings of Mohammad what would you call me?

A liar? Most likely so.

posted on Oct, 13 2008 @ 05:54 AM
NOTurTypical... i think you have some explaining to do.
What is the meaning of your post when your BTS points mark the sign of the beast?

... all joking a side, i agree in part with your premise. Though there are some exceptions. Here are a couple youtube videos that do a good job of pointing out where some of jesus's teachings are a miss.

Jesus said it, but he didn't mean it.

Jesus was Wrong, Part 1

Jesus was Wrong, Part 2

Jesus was Wrong, Part 3

Jesus was Wrong, Part 4

Jesus was Wrong, Part 5

[edit on 13-10-2008 by The All Seeing I]

posted on Oct, 13 2008 @ 09:47 AM
reply to post by The All Seeing I

Eeeeeeeeeeek!!! LOL.

The videos don't work.

U2U me the actual links if you wish.

(Also tell me how you embed the videos, plz, thx.)

posted on Apr, 26 2009 @ 11:06 PM
Is the Bible a sexist doctrine?

Verses/scripts that promote the superiority of men over women:
(note: A woman's lower status to the man's is even related to godliness.)


1 Corinthians 11:3

3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God.
(Head of every woman is the man)

1 Corinthians 11:7 - 9

7 For a man indeed ought not to cover [his] head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.
8 For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man.
9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.

1 Corinthians 14:34 - 35

34. Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
(Woman to be silent in church. A woman is not to speak in church)

Ephesians 5:22 - 25

22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so [let] the wives [be] to their own husbands in every thing.
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
(Wives must submit themselves to their husband, afterall he is the head of the wife)

Colossians 3:18

18. Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.
(Wives submit to their husband -- the Lord expects it)

1 Timothy 2:9 - 15

9. In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
(Women not to wear braided hair, gold, pearls, or costly array.
Women must learn in silence. Women are not to teach and not have
authority over men. Women must be silent. Adam was created first,
then Eve. A woman was deceived, but Adam was not deceived)

Romans 7:2

2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to [her] husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of [her] husband.
(woman bound to her husband for life)

Titus 2:3 - 5

3 The aged women likewise, that [they be] in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;
4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,
5 [To be] discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.
(Women to obey their own husbands)

1 Peter 3:1 -3

1. Likewise, ye wives, [be] in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;
2 While they behold your chaste conversation [coupled] with fear.
3 Whose adorning let it not be that outward [adorning] of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;

1 Peter 3:5 -7

5 For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands:
6 Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement.
7 Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with [them] according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.

Genesis 3:16

16. Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire [shall be] to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
(Women will be ruled by men)

Leviticus 12:2

2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a woman have conceived seed, and born a man child: then she shall be unclean seven days; according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be unclean.

Leviticus 12:5

5 But if she bear a maid child, then she shall be unclean two weeks, as in her separation: and she shall continue in the blood of her purifying threescore and six days.
(Woman unclean for 7 days if she gives birth to a man child.
She is unclean for 14 days to 66 days if she gives birth to woman child)

Esther 1:22

22 For he sent letters into all the king's provinces, into every province according to the writing thereof, and to every people after their language, that every man should bear rule in his own house, and that [it] should be published according to the language of every people.
Job 25:4

4 How then can man be justified with God? or , how can he be clean [that is] born of a woman?
(Any man born of a woman is unclean)

Ecclesiastes 7:26

26 And I find more bitter than death the woman, whose heart [is] snares and nets, [and] her hands [as] bands: whoso pleaseth God shall escape from her; but the sinner shall be taken by her.
( Women can be source of evil for men. Men source of evil for
women? -- doesn't say)

Deuteronomy 22:5

5. The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so [are] abomination unto the LORD thy God.
( Women not to wear pants, nor men to wear dresses)

1 Corinthians 11:14

14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?
(Men not to wear long hair)

[edit on 26-4-2009 by The All Seeing I]

posted on May, 7 2009 @ 08:49 PM
8 Trivial Reasons for Biblical Slayings by God

God kills a man for collecting sticks on the Sabbath. (Numbers 15:32-36)

God kills two sons of Aaron for offering him a "strange fire". (Leviticus 10:1-3)

God kills Onan for pulling out and "spilling his seed". (Genesis 38:8-10)

God kills 14,700 people for complaining about God killing people! (Numbers 16:49)

God kills 50,070 people for looking into the Ark of the lord. (1 Samuel 6:19)

God kills Uzzah for touching the Ark. (2 Samuel 2:6)

God commands bears to kill 42 children. (2 Kings 2:23-24)

God kills a baby because David blasphemed. (2 Samuel 12:14-18)

posted on May, 22 2009 @ 09:54 AM

“And the LORD spake unto Moses saying, “Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them the following–When ye are passed over the Jordan river into the land of Canaan, ye shall drive out all the inhabitants of the land from before you, and destroy all their pictures, and destroy all their molten images, and tear down all their high places…And ye shall dispossess the inhabitants of the land, and dwell therein, for I have given you the land to possess it…But if ye will not drive out the inhabitants of the land from before you; then it shall come to pass, that those which shall remain shall be pricks in your eyes and thorns in your sides and shall vex you in the land wherein ye dwell…”

Book of Numbers 33:50-56

As we can see, the Zionist belief/application of this script to the real world has served to be a very destructive self-fulling prophecy. Now in the hands of the Christians United for Israel we are being lead toward another self-fulling prophecy... called Armageddon. These people really scare me.

(click to open player in new window)

posted on May, 26 2009 @ 11:20 PM
Some very wise words from the author of "The Sins of Scripture"

John Shelby Spong, retired Episcopal bishop from Newark, N.J., talks about why Christianity must change its view of hell. Spong is one of the leading spokepersons for liberal Christianity.

posted on May, 27 2009 @ 01:57 AM
reply to post by The All Seeing I

As we can see, the Zionist belief/application of this script to the real world has served to be a very destructive self-fulling prophecy. Now in the hands of the Christians United for Israel we are being lead toward another self-fulling prophecy... called Armageddon. These people really scare me.

Be afraid of yourself.
The last five Presidents wanted to start Armageddon, including the current one. These people are insane and they are we, don't you know?

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