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posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 02:41 PM
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Don't you all find it interesting that a person's abduction experience and details about technology are limited to what that person knows about such things. An example as I havbe stated in another thread...if a Professional astronomer was abducted his story would be full of details about what type of planet, what star it is surrounded by and how to find it in the cosmos, where as if a physicist will have details about the physics the craft and crew use to get around,etc...And is it also not interesting that when it comes to thier stories, you will find that they are a mixture of many stories. I think when pressed for details about these so called creatures taking them you will find that they will be vague or will completly ignore questions, stating I do not have to prove nothing to you, (really meaning if this was real I could tell since it ain't I can't get into detail because of thier limited knowledge). Thier stories and fairy tales will only have details that they are knowledgeable. This is why these stories are false, thier entire experiences only include what thier mind is knowledgeable about and totally depends on what thier intelligence level is at. The more intelligent the more the story will become detailed about technology and other things. The less intelligent...the less detail A person will give because thier minds can only make up what it knows.




posted on Sep, 23 2008 @ 01:05 PM
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Hi riggs
Since knowbody seem to be biting on your thread I will bite
My registered IQ is between 127- 131 depending on what test is used
But I gave a big clue to something new I may have brought to the table
I said that UFO may all be power by exotic matter

Look it up on wikipedia (exotic matter)

I believe exotic matter and monatomic power to be one and the same

Do some research spend some real time on it and prove me wrong this will be a huge feather in your cap......

You can start here so you understand this a little more
www.gold-eagle.com...

[edit on 23-9-2008 by smokingman2006]

[edit on 23-9-2008 by smokingman2006]



posted on Sep, 23 2008 @ 01:20 PM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

When you look at people posting I.Q. scores, many of them come from tests when they were adolescents. The scores are elevated.

Look at the stats. Only ~2% of the members have an advanced degree of those polled.

My impression is that there are only two or three posters on the board now who would test over 130 I.Q.

I can count the number of posters who never post a grammatical or spelling error in their posts (a sure indication of I.Q. - attention to detail).

Again, my opinion but I'm not seeing evidence of all these claiming >131 I.Q. The content of the posts, lack of evidence of math and analytic skills, vocabulary, 99% of ATS posters are probably just average I.Q. Remember we only have between 9K and 10K active posters.

Don't believe me? Here's a simple test.

How many parts can you divide a circle into with four straight lines?


(This is not meant to insult any ATS members all of whom I like and respect as fellow members.
)

To stay on topic, yes I agree. In the 1800s the stories were about 'blimps' and aliens who looked like people.

In the 20s and 30s during the Contactee movements they described aliens as looking like someone wearing Greyhound bus driver uniforms, and the females wearing box-pleated skirts (from Orion)

After the 1950s flaps and the upsurge of sci-tech and the movies, aliens took on other-worldly appearances similar to horror movies.

In the 60s we have Betty and Barney Hill talking about looking like Nazis and wearing hats.

Later, after the 70s and Star Wars we get furry creatures, reptiles, insects.

After Whitley Strieber we have a lot of Grey alien stories.

It's not clear, always, which influenced what.

To me -real- aliens would look far stranger than we imagine now, no bumpy fore--headed aliens as you see in Star Trek. Current models look essentially like homo sapiens, with rib cages and similar skeletal features. Sure, we could all have a common ancestor, but that seems unlikely. It would make sense to see a certain amount of bilateral symmetry.

2 cents.


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.




[edit on 23/9/2008 by Badge01]



posted on Sep, 23 2008 @ 01:33 PM
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another poster who jumped in before thinking IQ has nothing to do with spelling or most the other things you mentioned on you post
but more to do with wit

They have tested monkeys with much higher IQ than some humans

Then there is the professor who is brilliant but wears two different colored socks

You can have a child who's IQ is off the charts but his locked in the world of autism and can't even tie his shoelaces up.

this place is starting to disapoint if people dont think things out before posting




[edit on 23-9-2008 by smokingman2006]



posted on Sep, 23 2008 @ 01:52 PM
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reply to post by smokingman2006
 


The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


Monkey's with higher IQ than (normal humans)? Citation, please.

I just find it hard to believe a claim of high I.Q. with a poor vocabulary. That's one of the tests. If you use 'you're' (you are) when you mean 'your' (possessive) and don't even realize it. then I'm dubious; sorry.

You can protest, but statistically, out of 10k posters, only 0.25% will test above 130 I.Q. (how many is that?(*) )

Now there is a difference between I.Q. and intelligence.

I prefer to go by grammar, ideation, spelling, creativity, sense of humor, knowledge, vocabulary, abstract thinking, cleverness, ability to learn and a certain degree of humility. We've all got a lot to learn.

2 cents. ('',)












(*)25


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Sep, 23 2008 @ 01:58 PM
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I think the OP has some good points. I have studied this phenomena and I am an experiencer. It is very true that the phenomena, whatever this is, interacts on a very personal level and is told through the person's our reality filters.

Read some of the Late Dr John Mack's books if you are truely interested in this subject. He puts foward a better aguement than I ever could.



posted on Sep, 26 2008 @ 07:58 AM
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another poster who jumped in before thinking IQ has nothing to do with spelling or most the other things you mentioned on you post
but more to do with wit


Can I add to the list of neccessary requirements for believing a claim of high IQ would be the use of punctuation. Do the French not punctuate? Do ex futures dealers not have that simple skill to hand?

Anyhoo...

To rigs2099, I have said the self same thing, in various forms, several times over and in many posts. The amount of information supplied by posters who make extravagant claims, I believe, is directly comparable to the amount of information they glean from the internet, or sensationalistic books and publications.

What does not appear to occur, however, is that simply regurgitating data, and previously well-covered data at that, ad infinitum does not fool everyone. It does, unfortunately, draw in those who really want to read of someone who has experienced something fantastic. By throwing various emotive subjects into the mix (Pleiadians, Reptillians, Nibiru, Alexander the Great (!?), Sitchin, Moses, monatomic gold etc.) to many will only, sadly, solidify the OP's veracity.

It can also be noted that the more attention these threads gain, the greater the claims become. Strange that, isn't it?
In my opinion, this simply suggests that if you cast enough nets, you snare lots more prey.

I have also stated that I would distrust any alien species that hands its message of world-changing hope over to a poor communicator.
What would be the point in that?
Do they actualy want to dilute a communique they have travelled countless miles to deliver? Or can they not guage the communicative abilities of their chosen agents? Does that not worry anyone else?

And since smokingman2006 has chosen to tilt at the subject of this thread, would it not be pertinent to ask of him whether he has also posted his "experiences" on a French web site?

I am not in any way criticising his English (I do not speak any other language, so it would be churlish to do so), but maybe if we can view posts in his native tongue, then the finer details of his claims that many of us would love to hear could be added to his story.

ie. His emotional viewpoint on what has "happened" to him since his "contact" and the family problems that have allegedly befallen him.

The intellectual, religious and subjective impact, and all other life-changing ramifications, of meeting a "Pleiadian".

How he quantifies the statement that he is not amongst the "chosen" few who will, apparently, be "saved", yet has been selected to deliver the aliens' message.

Thise would be very interesting to peruse.

Instead, we get:


Then there is the professor who is brilliant but wears two different colored socks


Ever heard of eccentricity?


this place is starting to disapoint if people dont think things out before posting


Never, ever a truer word.



posted on Sep, 26 2008 @ 11:57 AM
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reply to post by riggs2099
 


What you have stated is the problem with hypnosis as it is done today. The one's who do the hypnosis are fishing for an experience, and the one who is under hypnosis will use their life experience and interests to fill in the blanks. I am not saying there are no alien abductions, but I will state the vast majority of the claims are sleep paralysis or some kind of neurological disorder.
The above is not a popular stance in the abduction phenomena.



posted on Sep, 26 2008 @ 12:36 PM
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Originally posted by Badge01
reply to post by smokingman2006
 



Monkey's with higher IQ than (normal humans)? Citation, please.

I just find it hard to believe a claim of high I.Q. with a poor vocabulary. That's one of the tests. If you use 'you're' (you are) when you mean 'your' (possessive) and don't even realize it. then I'm dubious; sorry.

You can protest, but statistically, out of 10k posters, only 0.25% will test above 130 I.Q. (how many is that?(*) )

Now there is a difference between I.Q. and intelligence.

I prefer to go by grammar, ideation, spelling, creativity, sense of humor, knowledge, vocabulary, abstract thinking, cleverness, ability to learn and a certain degree of humility. We've all got a lot to learn.

2 cents. ('',)












(*)25


IQ wise...

You are assuming that the people who post on this board are your average person. In reality the people posting here are either

A. Highly inteligent and are seeing through govt. and social created smoke screens

or

B. We are all fantasy D@D players living in a fantasy world and are complete idiots because we have to have some type of conflict within ourselves about the govt. in order to feel elite and special. When in reality everything is as it appears. (Obviously this isn't the case.)


Assumptions about spelling and schooling just shows the limit of ones brain to disect what we are taught is correct and if that's the case then we wouldn't be posting here in the first place.

Myself for example. I have never been able to spell and can not comprehend the relationships of numbers to words in geometry (theroms) but I can do anything numbers wise.

I have never attended a day of college in my life however I trained pilots for the military all 4 branches + the gaurds, and also trained astonaut canidates for NASA.

When I decided to return home and said I was done with all this and just wanted to live a normal life with a normal job I was offered a position at a University as a professor. I turned it down not because I didn't go to college but because I had a plan in my life to retire with a large amount of money and had it already mapped out how to do it. I felt school was restricting and everything was taught as the answer is right or it is wrong. With numbers that is correct but with every thing else there is no such thing as a right answer as everything else can be interpited diffrently by diffrent people.

At 10 years old I was programing computers, and to this day can not define the Pathagreom therom let alone spell it.

Am I saying I'm smart, nope only a fool would classify themselves as being smart as true wisdom comes from realizing the interpatation of things is soley dependent on the individuals interpiting them.

Sure I did have a family member who had a photographic memory but all that does is cause more heart ache than glory in the end. I was the only one in the family that would talk to him as everyone else felt he was "too weird" to talk to, hence interpatations are not always correct.

Not a personal attack or anything just saying tests mean nothing after all the world was once flat.

[edit on 26-9-2008 by Darthorious]



posted on Sep, 26 2008 @ 12:50 PM
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Originally posted by kidflash2008
reply to post by riggs2099
 


What you have stated is the problem with hypnosis as it is done today. The one's who do the hypnosis are fishing for an experience, and the one who is under hypnosis will use their life experience and interests to fill in the blanks. I am not saying there are no alien abductions, but I will state the vast majority of the claims are sleep paralysis or some kind of neurological disorder.
The above is not a popular stance in the abduction phenomena.


Hypnosis is not accurate at all. My mother had it done to her and she recalled several things that occured in her life that never acctually happened and was proven to never of happened.

There was some research done on it I don't recall where I saw it but I'm sure someone has a link too it. The study found individuals recalling past lives were actually recalling details out of a book they had read. Each one was a fictional book and they would describe their past lives as one of the charecters in the book.

They were able to do this by researching all the books they claim to have read before the sessions started. Of course some couldn't be proven one way or another but after my mothers experiance I'm certain hypnosis is not the way to go in a case like this. So I have to agree with this poster.



posted on Sep, 26 2008 @ 01:39 PM
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Divide a circle into 9 parts with four straight lines.


Nothing here except to avoid the one-line thingy.



posted on Sep, 26 2008 @ 04:10 PM
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Huh?

People notice what they are interested in. I once went on a driving tour of parts of America with a petroleum geologist from England. He noticed things that I never would have about the types of rocks, rock strata, etc. etc. If we'd both kept a journal of what we saw, you might have thought they were two different trips.

Furthermore, people are limited by their understanding. How do you suppose the uncontacted tribespeople in Africa described the helicopters who buzzed their little village, as opposed to how one of our ATS aeronautics fans would have described it?

To say that people experience events in accordance with their areas and levels of understanding, expertise, interest, education, etc. would in my opinion make perfect sense and explain what you are trying to describe.


Take a dozen random people into a mock UFO without telling them it's not real, and you'll get a dozen accounts of the experience that are all different from each other. That's not because they made it up, it's because different people experience the same event differently.



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 05:05 AM
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reply to post by Heike
 



Take a dozen random people into a mock UFO without telling them it's not real, and you'll get a dozen accounts of the experience that are all different from each other. That's not because they made it up, it's because different people experience the same event differently.


And I agree. But if you took them onboard with the express purpose of teaching them something, then surely you'd choose people whom you knew would grasp not only the concept, but be able to recount it correctly?



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 09:05 AM
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reply to post by riggs2099
 


Hey there,

Has anyone else noticed that riggs2099 started this thread on the 23rd Sept ... it's now 27th Sept and he has not replied to any posts.

How ironic would it be if he'd been abducted ???


I for one would take a front row seat to read his account and see how he perceived 'his' experience ... and how that related to his IQ ... and of course to see if he was still as belligerent and opinionated as he appeared in his OP !
(just typing out loud).

Alternatively, our friend riggs2099 may simply have been bored and decided to seek-out a little sport at the expense of his fellow ATSer's ... kinda 'wind em'up and watch em'go' senario.

Ok, I think it's safe to say I am fully wound after reading the OP, so hang-on because here I go.

As one of the few 'experiencers' who has replied to this thread, I can understand why he would have such a low opinion of abductees (or at least their regaled experiencial tales), because let's face it ... the subject does seem to bring every weirdo and wannabe out of their darkened cupboard doesn't it ?

However, having said that I do think it's unfair (and not particularly intelligent) of him to adorn all abductee's with the same banner of spuriosity. So, now that I've thrown my gauntlet firmly to the ground I suppose I should provide you with a little background;


(WARNING; If you are adverse to long-winded rants look away now) !


Academia is not my natural element and I am 'number-blind' ... which basically means I can work-out numerological problems with pen / paper / calculator etc, but ask me to solve the simplest of mathematical conundrums in my head and that part of my brain totally shuts down ... which as you can imagine, is very embarrassing at times.

Having said that my impediment did not prevent me from studying Natural Earth Sciences at degree level (I scraped through with 72%) ... and as a Registered Stress Consultant I was also required to study the Science of Psychology (in this field I scored 97%), and yes, I did use some capitals when I didn't really need to ... that's not because I am grammatically dim when it comes to writing ... it's just easier on the eye for me - that'll be down to my abstract thinking) !

IQ ... I would have to say about average (negligibly above average maybe), in the 'conventional' way.
But I have a much higher intelligence and logical understanding of metaphysical and philosophical theses. I believe this is due to the fact that the right hemisphere of my brain is more dominant than the left and so allows me to view such subjects with an abstract eye ... rather than being restricted to a dogmatic 'pinhole' viewpoint (as several members have displayed here in support of our absent thread host.

I am in effect a 'hybrid' because in spite of being essentially a 'right-brainer' I never accept anything of a paranormal nature at face value and I include aliens / alien abduction in that group (that would just be silly). I always use my 'left-brain' to look for a logical / scientific explanation first.

This being the case (and because of my experience as a therapist), I believe that the use of hypnosis should be restricted and only employed to eleviate / eliminate 'phobias' and 'addictions' when suggestion is an important part of the treatment. IMO hypnosis should never, ever be used as a method to retrieve abduction memories or pastlife memories !

As for my own abduction experience ... I can say with my hand on my heart that I have obtained certain elements of knowledge that I had no idea of before my experience ... these are the sole result of information gained during my abduction. Unfortunately, unless you knew me before the experience took place you have no way of knowing how different I am now ... so I guess I cannot prove it to you ... but that doesn't mean it's not true.

At the end of the day (and as other posters have already mentioned), accounts of personal experience are individual by their very definition ... in short it's all 'relative'.

If you have any interest in reading about my experience you can find the details in the 2 following threads;

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Sorry for the rant but the tone of the OP touched a nerve ... rest assured I have now stepped away from my soapbox and I'm climbing back into my darkened cupboard.


Woody



posted on Sep, 28 2008 @ 09:30 AM
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reply to post by woodwytch
 


Can just add that I should have clarified one matter when it comes to experiencers. What I should have said was that those who can elucidate and communicate their encounter with dignity and aplomb, in my opinion, are worth listening to.

woodwytch, you are capable of doing this with great decorum and a notable measure of self-respect. I have read your accounts and they draw the reader in; there is sufficient originality and enigmatic content to engage even the most skeptical of minds. You can convey the complete otherworldly atmosphere that must have enveloped you as you were subjected to such a bizarre event. And because of this, I am more than inclined to believe you.

It is these qualities that are sorely missing from most accounts, and that is why I, amongst many others, continue to question them.

I have no idea, and I fully expect no one else does either, if experiencers are somehow "chosen" to be the receptacle of knowledge. But it kind of makes sense if they are, don't you agree?

If you take the example of a peace keeping force working in foreign lands; they will employ locals as go-betweens, locals who can understand the importance of their work, and who are capable of expressing neccessary and significant information well and swiftly. What they need are trustworthy and dependable people. Finding these agents can only come through the use of intelligence gathered in the field. They would not simply pick the first peole they come across for fear of their mission being side-tracked or even derailed by a lack of aptitude.

So why would an even more advanced species not use such a basic premise?



posted on Sep, 28 2008 @ 01:41 PM
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Beamish my friend ... long time no type (how are you) ?

I would like to apologise to you and everyone else for my little outburst yesterday but I was just riled by the sweeping comment in the OP implying that ALL abductees were either liars or idiots.

I do agree with you and mentioned somewhere in my rant that there are a huge percentage of people who exaggerate such matters ... or blatantly lie about being abducted and it is the nature of the beast that genuine people get tarred with the same brush ! And this is very upsetting for those genuine 'experiencers' whether their personal experience was positive (as was mine) or terrifying.

I suppose what I really wanted to say yesterday was that it is not only healthy to be sceptical ... it is essential, but each case should be judged on it's own merit.
And however honest someone is about having such an experience there is no way to provide hard, indisputible evidence at this moment in time ... but it will come one day and then everyone will know the truth.

Just wish the 'hoaxers' would find another hobby and stop clouding the real issues ! Hey ho, such is life.

Again, sorry for getting on my high-horse yesterday. Woody


ps;(Beamish) Your Irish charm and flattering words made me blush ... thank-you for your calming influence.

Woody



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 01:13 AM
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reply to post by riggs2099
 


Tell me, how is a person supposed to relate things beyond their scope of knowledge?
If you're an average joe with an average intelligence, you will relate your experience in a normal way. If you are an intelligent, articulate, well educated person, your telling of events will be liberally sprinkled with more vocabulary and detail.
A person of average intelligence isn't suddenly going to become smarter and have a better vocabulary simply by having an experience he can't quite make sense of or explain well to others.
For instance, a mathematician and an average guy could both look at a chalk board filled with algebaic notations. The mathematician will tell you each formula and it's function, while the average guy will tell you it was a bunch of numbers, letters and symbols on a chalk board that made no sense to him.
How does this qualify his (the average guy's) story as false?
He can only explain what he sees in the best way he can.
If a caveman was shown a lighter how would he explain it to his tribe? As a "magic stick"? Surely, it would seem like magic to him.
So, if he explains what he saw to his fellow cavemen and can't explain it adequately, to THEIR satisfaction, the other cavemen are going to say, "He's crazy."
Does that make the experience any less valid?
I cannot follow the logic in your statement, and it is beyond me why this is not evident to anyone reading it.
The experience isn't going to make you suddenly able to describe things you never could before. Of course people are limited in explaining things according to their intelligence, that's a statement that is self evident.

And for those who believe that "aliens" would WANT to choose people who could accurately describe them and their craft, you are missing the point entirely. Do you choose your hamburger by the articulate mooings of the cow it came from?
Think of an alien visitation/abduction as visit from the vet, making sure Farmer Brown's livestock is healthy enough for consumption. That might give you a different perspective as to how "they" might view "us".

For the record, I was tested 4 years ago by my employer and I came out with an I.Q. of 136. My ex tested out at 142, and that still has me baffled, for she has no common sense whatsoever.



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 04:33 AM
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reply to post by woodwytch
 


I'm fine and dandy, thanks, Woody! From the continuing quality of your posts, I see you're in fine fettle too!


I would like to apologise to you and everyone else for my little outburst yesterday but I was just riled by the sweeping comment in the OP implying that ALL abductees were either liars or idiots.


No need to apologise, at all.
Your reaction was caused by genuine concern and an obvious frustration brought about by your solid understanding of what, to most peole, is an as yet unproven phenomenon. In fairness, neither party can be blamed for any "hot-headeness", as the abduction scenarion is, by its very nature, not only extremely emotive, but ethereal, too.


I do agree with you and mentioned somewhere in my rant that there are a huge percentage of people who exaggerate such matters ... or blatantly lie...this is very upsetting for those genuine 'experiencers' whether their personal experience was positive (as was mine) or terrifying.


And there's the problem in a nutshell. These folks who want, or more correctly crave, the same attention as those who have undergone an abduction incident will willingly spread discord just so they get their fifteen minutes of fame. They never come across as genuine, and cannot, as their clear lack of an appreciable and deeper understanding of what has happened to others, to me, only goes to illuminate their own story's failings.


I suppose what I really wanted to say yesterday was that it is not only healthy to be sceptical ... it is essential, but each case should be judged on it's own merit.


I couldn't agree with you more. There seems to be a growing disease where die-hard, unquestioning believers will read posts such as mine etc. and concentrate on the fact that we will not accept everything we read as gospel, whilst happily skimming over that some of us really, truly beleive in ET! Having a balanced viewpont, as far as I'm concerned, is a prerequiste for any member of a conspiracy board.

If I wanted to be a sad and lonely skeptic with a capital S, then I'd be a follower of the dour Mr R. Dawkins and have posters of Randi on my bedroom wall.
I'm not.
What a miserable existence that'd be!

I make up my own mind with regard to the claims made here on ATS, and advocate the same procedure to everyone else.


And however honest someone is about having such an experience there is no way to provide hard, indisputible evidence at this moment in time ... but it will come one day and then everyone will know the truth.


I don't doubt that closing sentiment for an instant.

(By the way; thanks for saying I have a calming influence. I wish it'd work on me sometimes! And, for the record, though I live in Ireland, I'm English.)



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 04:51 AM
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reply to post by cmongo4
 



And for those who believe that "aliens" would WANT to choose people who could accurately describe them and their craft, you are missing the point entirely.


Why would they not?


In all seriousness, why would "they" travel across the universe (or side-step a dimension) to relay a message of immense importance for the continued existence of another species to someone who'll then deliver it in an insipid and uncomfortable manner to a mere handful of people?

What is the sense in that?


Do you choose your hamburger by the articulate mooings of the cow it came from? Think of an alien visitation/abduction as visit from the vet, making sure Farmer Brown's livestock is healthy enough for consumption. That might give you a different perspective as to how "they" might view "us".


So, are you indicating that "they" are treating us as a lesser species as, say, we do cattle?
Sorry, but I don't understand the analogy; are you saying the "messages" we are receiving are nothing more than a kind of oral toy to be played with and passed along the line so "they" can see how we're developing?
A form of chinese whispers designed to act as a test of spirituality or intelligence?
Bizarre theory, but as plausible as any I've heard. I don't believe anyone knows fully what "they" want.

And continuing the IQ arguement; I have a friend who is a member of Mensa, and has an IQ of 176. Sometimes, she's dumber than soup.



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 11:24 AM
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Beamish my friend ... you may not be Irish but something must have rubbed off on you.


Thank you for the kind words and reassurance ... it means a lot.

Woody.





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