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How We Became the the United States of France

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posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 01:08 AM
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How We Became the the United States of France


www.time.com

This is the state of our great republic: We've nationalized the financial system, taking control from Wall Street bankers we no longer trust. We're about to quasi-nationalize the Detroit auto companies via massive loans because they're a source of American pride, and too many jobs — and votes — are at stake. Our Social Security system is going broke as we head for a future where too many retirees will be supported by too few workers. How long before we have national healthcare? Put it all together, and the America that emerges is a cartoonish version of the country most despised by red-meat red-state patriots: France. Only with worse food.

(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 01:08 AM
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Technically this is an opinion piece, but there's a lot of truth to it. It just angers me to the point that I can't actually think about it too long or else I become enraged to realize that this was a divide & conquer plot. Get those of us who still believe in true capitalism and the "good ol' boy" way of pulling yourself up by your own bootstraps to hone in on socialized healthcare as a target, meanwhile set things up where the passage of socialized healthcare (or any other socialistic system you can name) pales in comparison with the socialization of our banks, mortgage institutions, and our monetary system in general.

We probably will see socialized healthcare slipped under the door tacked onto one of these bailout bills before too long, actually. It will be done in such a way that the bill it is attached to is "vital to the survival" of our financial system and anyone who tries to criticize it or anything attached to it will be immediately shouted down as "playing politics."

They got us, guys. They got us good. I was wrong and I'm sorry. You can count the number of appologies this man has given for my political and social views in my life on one hand, but today I'm sorry for doubting & feel like the world's biggest ass for ever wasting my time trying to defend the bastards who set us up. This Halloween, I'm just going to wear ass ears because it seems to be appropriate.

www.time.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 02:13 AM
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Well I support everything your against in your piece. The entire Earth should be united under a single governing entity and all vital industries related to modern human survival and convinience (healthcare, energy, transportation, infrastructure, agriculture, education) should be socialised and regulated by the people.

With those industries globalised under one world Gov, there would still be millions of private businesses to run. People still liek a variety of food. Just because you buy the main ingredients from the "peoples government" does not mean you do not have the freedom to make it any which way you want.

Just because you buy the raw materials from the "peoples government" does not mean you cannot create your own products and tools.

Just because yuor money is held and loaned out by the "peoples goverment", does not mean you cannot open up a new privately run theatre, general store, theme park, laser tag, tanning salon, training center, light store, pool supply store, novelty shop, book store, musical shop, recording studio.

EVERYONE that despises government regulation of key and vital industries only objects to the fact that it reduces the right to pay less in taxes and keep all the money for self excess.

Well I feel that if there is an oil field being exploited, the board should be the People of that Land and all the profits should go to socialised causes.

Socialism did not fail, it was systematically attacked by a system whose sole purpose is to generate excess wealth and destroy any other system with any thought of growing in balance, not saturation.

That is all that true Capitalism is, it is Saturation. The sole goal is to grow and grow indefinetly utilizing as much resources as possible.

Well what you are seeing now is the saturation of Capitalism. Sometiems you just grow too big. Problem is that even after every Empire on Earth in history has gone through the same, too many people will just continue to believe it.

Those are the ones who begin to isolate themselves thinking that the new system is out to get them, living away in some desolate locations, spiting the prosperity of the New Order desperately hoping and believing there will be a revival any day now. They will only dissapear into the quiet of time.

For the record I dont beleive this is going to happen to you, it appears you are to accept the transition and will simply adapt to psoper with it.
thats good, because adaptation is what keeps the civilization together. Given enough time, and assuming you still have enough years left you may in fact come to enjoy the renewed policies.

Live long and Prosper



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 02:30 AM
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well... that was a strange overblown load of Star Treck Socialist nonsense.

You know that whole premise for actually working requires people to actually be willing to not be corrupted by power

Maybe the Vulcans will come and teach us how to eliminate our egos once and for all

I prefer a system by which I have a fair fighting chance to be better than the next guy.

and the reality, create the system of socialism your talking about, people will either take control of it or they will tear it down in hopes of not being ruled

I'll be one of them, Life isn't fair I'm not here to be on the same standing as people who have half my skills and abilities or to have a government run my life

I Love what America was...

Good for you Burdman

The Sob's didn't even give me any Flan...

Stared and Flaged





[edit on 22-9-2008 by mopusvindictus]



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 02:36 AM
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Your welcome to resist, but you will perish. All you have to do is adapt, and you will prosper.



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 02:38 AM
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Originally posted by burdman30ott6
They got us, guys. They got us good. I was wrong and I'm sorry. You can count the number of appologies this man has given for my political and social views in my life on one hand, but today I'm sorry for doubting & feel like the world's biggest ass for ever wasting my time trying to defend the bastards who set us up. This Halloween, I'm just going to wear ass ears because it seems to be appropriate.

Don't feel bad...You finally "woke up" & once you have, there's no going back. I've seen how you used to post when you first started here on ATS & I notice a marked difference in your postings now. For example, the topic you have for this thread, I have to admit to my own ignorance on how much the US seems like France! I've never really developed an interest in France as a "research subject" so I'm ignorant about it.

"Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects." -- Will Rogers

"Being ignorant is not so much a shame, as being unwilling to learn." -- Benjamin Franklin
IMO, there's no need to apologize for a prior ignorance, but you deserve credit for standing up with the ATS motto to Deny Ignorance!


I have to admit though, I love the way the article you linked to has such a way with words...

You just know the Frogs have only increased their disdain for us, if that is indeed possible. And why shouldn't they? The average American is working two and half jobs, gets two weeks off, and has all the employment security of a one-armed trapeze artist.

Trite, but true.


And this one:

Mitterand tried to create both job-growth and wage-growth by nationalizing huge swaths of the economy, including some big industries, including automaker Renault, for instance. You haven't driven a Renault lately because Renault couldn't sell them here. Imagine that. An auto company that couldn't compete with a Dodge Colt. But the Renault takeover ultimately proved successful and Renault became a private company again in 1996, although the government retains about 15% of the shares.

Now the U.S. is faced with the same prospect in the auto industry. GM and Ford need money to develop greener cars that can compete with Toyota and Honda.

They forgot to mention that Tesla Motors could also be serious competition...If they'd only get a better PR firm to work. Maybe GM or Ford could "buy them out" & bring bigger manufacturing facilities to the forefront?...


There's a lot of other good word-play that I like in that article, but I don't want to get too verbose & turn this into a two-part post...But I have to admit that Bill Saporito (on the byline) has a decent sense of humor.


So I thank you for bringing up the subject of how the US is starting to act more & more like France...

We're more French than France.


But for some reason, the US government thinks it has to become a fascist tyranny to "distract the public" away from this similarity. Well, Bush has been recorded as saying, "This job would be a lot easier if it were a dictatorship, but only if I were the dictator." Ironically, that's probably the only statement of truth he's ever said since his "appointment" into the first term of Office.


[edit on 22-9-2008 by MidnightDStroyer]



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 02:42 AM
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WELCOME TO THE AUTUMN/FALL EQUINOX SEPTEMBER 22

Funny how the stocks crash around last week and maybe this week....

And how this time of year is called fall...


You can't say that the world is boring, or will be in the next 4 years.



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 08:04 AM
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As soon as I read this I was going to post it but I'm glad I did a search because you beat me to it, burdman.

I love this article. It's so funny, because it's true. And that's what also makes it so sad.

A very humorous quote...

We're now no different from any of those Western European semi-socialist welfare states that we love to deride. Italy? Sure, it's had four governments since last Thursday, but none of them would have allowed this to go on; the Italians know how to rig an economy.


And one which is painfully true...

In bailing out mortgage lenders Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, our government has basically turned America into the largest subsidized housing project in the world.


WTF is all I can say about America. WTFFFFFFF. How could they do this to it? How could we let them?

You can add Canada to the list of countries that America out-socializes now. But at least Canada has the good sense to tax the # out of the people to actually pay for all those social programs. That's right, they've had a budget surplus for years. And people actually get real, tangible benefits from those taxes, like this lovely Government of Canada website. It's so easy to navigate it's practially intuitive. Been on any US government websites lately? If you haven't, don't bother because they are so hard to navigate that eventually you just give up. Which is exactly what they want.

It's exactly what they want and we've all capitulated.



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 08:14 AM
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reply to post by burdman30ott6
 


nonsense, USA is no socialist , its fascist ////......

or should i say corporate communism



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 08:29 AM
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Originally posted by mopusvindictus
I prefer a system by which I have a fair fighting chance to be better than the next guy.

I'll be one of them, Life isn't fair I'm not here to be on the same standing as people who have half my skills and abilities or to have a government run my life


How does having trouble paying your bills make you less valuable as a human being? Do you feel money should measure the value of human life? For example: Person A works a minimum wage job and can't afford insurance, therefore person A has no right to health insurance? Have you lived at this level of society? If you haven't how do you know what a "fair fighting chance" looks like from this perspective?

As for the skills and abilities you tout, those only have value based on their relevance to the system, which is exactly what your espousing. So what reason would you have to complain if someone with a different skill set exceeds you in the system? Isn't that progress?



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 08:30 AM
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reply to post by DYepes
 


ahhh well, who am I kidding

I'll adapt, lol the same way I adpated to this system

I figure things out, find the loop holes and play the system to get what I want.

I don't know it much matters to me what system I am in...

I guess really it changes nothing for me because i'm not much of a "team player" no matter who's in charge or what there reason for being there is.

I'm just saying there is no good system because so long as thier is a system... well, to be honest people like me will spend thier whole life finding ways around it because they don't like to be ruled

and then the system will have problems, just like this one.


If you ask me... the only way I'd truely be happy is in a time of colonization ...like being able to ride out across a continent and do my own thing with my family, my way

No system would really make me happy...

and that's not in my cards in this particular eara of human history



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 08:45 AM
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reply to post by TravelerintheDark
 


It's all BS that's why I prefer it be right out on the table

I'm not a fan of UNRESTRAINED Capitalism... because Super Billionares can't even spend that kind of money which makes it pointless... so I don't mind a little socialism

But when it comes to the Common man...

The same people with problems that earn Minimum wage and are disfunctional will be the same people regardless of what system it is and the same people who get rich will be rich regardless of the system

It's just kind of a waste of time

Right to health care?

You see... my issue with Socialism is NOT what they Give to others...

It's what I am subjected to... the 10% tax difference or whatever means little to me, I'll figure it out and get what I want

what I worry about in lets say a National Health Care system is being told I HAVE to do things the way others do them

because not to be rude

Most people are straight up idiots and that includes doctors

For example...

If I got cancer, there is no way in hell I am going for Chemo and already, there are situations in which Doctors can ORDER your treatment

I BUY my Doctors

when I can't I go to Mexico to get what I want

But I decide my treatments (with advice) But I decide

and I think Chemo will kill me... no I don't think I know I can do better in treating myself

I haven't had a disease once in the last 20 years, ever since I started treating myself, my way as I know myself and what I need

so it has nothing to do with what they give others...

I'd prefer that aspect of socialism... give away the welfare it keeps the lowest IQ portion of the population in check... might even be there for me If I ever get really reckless and screw up

But

The option to handle my life myself... has to always remain...

I want to be able to always opt out of human stupidity when I observe it



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 09:06 AM
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guess what, capitalism is now so badly diseased, so unreasonably defunct and so sickeningly immoral, that the US government have two choices, shoot it or hang it. the only people capitalism suits are the elites, and they're so inbred and dumb that they were never going to be able to figure out a sustainable form of economy.



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 09:07 AM
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reply to post by mopusvindictus
 


I agree, all of it is BS. What I wonder is if that's because we've been shoveled under or are we just standing in human nature. Which is why I'm never so sure about claims that things will be the same no matter how different they are. I don't know the answer so I'm not promoting a social system to rectify it.

What I do see are people chasing smoke, herded into an idea that leads them to misery. Who's fault is that? Everyone is responsible for themselves. But I do know the view from the bottom is disheartening in a way that can be difficult to overcome. Squash dignity and you'll find a lot of people have trouble getting back up.

But I also believe one of the natural by-products of freedom is dignity.



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 09:26 AM
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reply to post by burdman30ott6
 


Its better late than never my friend. You and I have gone back and forth a few times over this stuff and trust me I was like you. I just woke up a little sooner thats all. The fact is our government had been hi-jacked. We have to ask our selves ok if we know they have been hi jacked then who did it. That is the question you have to ask yourself. As much as I want to lay it all on the banking industry I cant. This is bigger than the banking industry and more conspirators from other industries like the media and entertainment industries.

I like you am for the you work hard what you earn you keep. You rely on yourself and no one else especially the government. I believe in strong individual freedoms and no federal taxes. I mean these reasons is why the revolution was started wasnt it?

We have been duped and I suspect I know who we have been hi jacked by but cant say because you get labeled as being a certain way.



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 10:29 AM
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reply to post by mybigunit
 


I have a couple of ideas of my own as to who the man behind the curtain is (or men, rather). My problem is I'm still not sure who counts as "us" in us vs them, let alone who, exactly "them" consists of. (If that makes any sense.) It's suddenly like the nice little black & white crystal clear view of everything has been changed to a shades of grey stained glass window composed of millions of different pieces.



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 10:49 AM
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Originally posted by burdman30ott6
reply to post by mybigunit
 


I have a couple of ideas of my own as to who the man behind the curtain is (or men, rather). My problem is I'm still not sure who counts as "us" in us vs them, let alone who, exactly "them" consists of. (If that makes any sense.) It's suddenly like the nice little black & white crystal clear view of everything has been changed to a shades of grey stained glass window composed of millions of different pieces.


The sad thing is there needs to be more people to wake up. It took me a long time just like it did you to realize the Republican party is no more. Its been hi jacked by neo cons and that the democrats are playing right along with them. It really is a two party dictatorship and now you see what people were do gung ho about getting Ron Paul elected. This is part of a big plan that has been going on for years. There is no conspiracy. I think after all of the events of the past few years I think people can throw the conspiracy thing out the door. I mean Im a level headed fairly successful business owner who likes to think of himself intelligent and that is why for many years up until really ATS and other sites that have pointed this crap out. I fought and fought against people and I even threw out the anti American slogan. But as time went I started seeing these things happening and as of the middle of 2007 I was changed. No more was I the hardcore Republican or should I say neo con that I used to be. I am a Republican but I am a Republican of old. You know all those crazy things like balanced budgets, no foreign interventions, individual liberties, and all of that other crazy stuff.



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 10:58 AM
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Originally posted by manson_322
reply to post by burdman30ott6
 


nonsense, USA is no socialist , its fascist ////......

or should i say corporate communism


I so hate to agree with Manson, but I think he nailed it on this one...Odd how all the lines of opposition on ATS are changing this week!



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 10:59 AM
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To the OP:

Hysteria aside, I do not see how you can be a such a huge fan of the system that is apparently failing now. All that excess and all that irresponsibility happened precisely beause of uber-capitalistic free for all. As usual, the ordinary folks stand to suffer.



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 10:59 AM
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reply to post by TravelerintheDark
 


There is a very real strain of wealth = virtue on the right. It feeds the 'poor are poor because they want to be' part of the ideology.



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