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Möbius strip - Will Infinity be our destiny?

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posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 07:04 PM
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I don't know for sure where this info came from (may be illuminati lore) or whatever.. but has anyone heard of the German mathematical equation describing Möbius strip? I am very much into mapping technology, etc and ran across this methodology there science and technology explains with rubber and tape a concept of non-orientability. The reason I stumbled up this has to do with spherical topology, map projections, etc.. and it led me to investigate a resonance theory for lightwave propagation in order to explain why timewave calculations produce flatline results of 2012, and Telsa technologies.

The thing that interested me in the subject comes from the simple concept of taking a globe of earth and projecting it onto a screen or paper, and it occurred to me why there may be been an age old argument over the "flat earth thinkers" and just how ridiculous that sounds to us today. I never really gave it much thought, but it occurred to me that there *must* have been a reason flat-earth thinkers think the way they do. If a spherical object could be represented at flat object, then the inverse is true as well.

Ok, this is were it got really interesting for me.. The mathematical symbol for
Infinity also called "lemniscate" has some really ancient roots in science.



In the electronics field, this symbol infinity has name "Ohm" which is a fundamental element for the measurement of resistance. Is this a coincidence? Hmm. Could it be that resistance is nothing more than the the specific gravity of an element?

After further investigation, I find the mobius symbol looks points to a alternate religion, and these ancient symbol seen inscribed in rock in the mountains of Tibet. If you look closely at that link, you will see that religious
link between or connection to the Infinity Snake which is the depicted in Tarot, etc. Could this be the roots of Mysticism? You be the judge.

But until recently has the math been solved and put to rest. Which leads us to present day technology.. As Pink Floyd puts it. Welcome my friends.. to the "machine".. the LHC Halo Collider, the design of the 17 mile circle is in fact the a huge mobius strip. Counter rotating rings designed to cross beams. Common sense might tell ya, blasting light into light, may not be such a good idea. Will the effect yield another dimension, a black hole, a fireball, or parhaps a Ring of Fire? Who really knows, but humanity is fixing to roll the dice and find out. Like it not, this is our inevitable fate. Something will be revealed.. Is mankind taking something that belongs to God? I think it was Einstein that said, "God doesn't roll dice", so what gives humans that right? The Future will tell the history.. In my mind, we don't know the consequences of our actions until it is too late, "To Err is Human". Do we really trust ourselves with the fate of the planet? Will Infinity be our destiny?

[edit on 21-9-2008 by mapsurfer_]

[edit on 21-9-2008 by mapsurfer_]




posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 07:20 PM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.



Good point.

I just made a post about this.

Essentially the Universe, itself, may be 'warped' back onto itself, so that there are no boundaries when trying to 'travel' across it.

Just as when your cursor goes off the edge of your PC and instantly appears at the other edge, or off the bottom and appears at the top, traveling to the end of the Universe is not possible - it may just wrap back around on itself like a Klein Bottle, or Roman Surface or any other non-orientable objects (one surface).

These seem a bit non-intuitive to a lay-person who is used to 3-D objects, and thus the Universe's 'wrapping' feature is probably only approximated by these examples.

HTH




As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 07:33 PM
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Originally posted by mapsurfer_
In the electronics field, this symbol infinity has name "Ohm" which is a fundamental element for the measurement of resistance. Is this a coincidence? Hmm. Could it be that resistance is nothing more than the the specific gravity of an element?


That's not true.

The symbol for infinity is, as you correctly stated, a variation on the mobius strip , but the symbol for electrical resistance is that of Omega (Ω) and measured in Ohm's.



posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 07:36 PM
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reply to post by Badge01
 

Well, the idea here is just to get people to think about what we actually know of our universe, and perhaps if infinity folds back on itself, then those "What If?" types of questions arise from it. Does it make Time Travel more plausible? Dimensional Travel? Is there such a thing as real magic? I think along these lines because symbolic meaning of infinity is far reaching and ancient. The symbol seems to predate the math, which give it even more significance, imo.



posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 07:45 PM
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To the what if time goes on for ever, it won't matter by about 10 followed by eighty naughts, all our protons will have decayed, unless of course we crunch, whereby we can view the subsequent big bangs as being potentially infinite. Anyway, we'll either have lost all our protons or been crunched and therefore dead.
On infinity, there's a few mathematical ones with 'Aleph' subscript 0 as the base one, the next is c, and then it goes up by power sets as 2c, 3c, and so on.
As for the collider, it's not going to make big black holes, it's going to get nowhere near that, and Einstein may have believed that 'God never rolls the dice' because he was so opposed to quantum theory, which said that God did if you believed in him. And Einstein kinda got that one part wrong at least, but then it was threatening his relativity, so you can forgive him. We have done calculations to show it's safe, so we'll probably get away with it.



posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 07:50 PM
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Originally posted by stumason
That's not true.

The symbol for infinity is, as you correctly stated, a variation on the mobius strip , but the symbol for electrical resistance is that of Omega (Ω) and measured in Ohm's.

Yup.. My bad. Different symbol, which is another interesting one... Omega (Ω) ominous greek symbol which points to the end, and has biblical reference as well...

# Codex Athous Dionysii, an 8th/9th century uncial Greek manuscript of the Gospels on Mount Athos;
# Omega Point, a theory about computing at the end of the universe;
# In mathematics, the first uncountable ordinal number;
# Also in mathematics, the Omega constant;
# In physics, the solid angle;



posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 07:52 PM
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reply to post by mapsurfer_
 


The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

Well, I'm just suggesting that the 'shape' of space time may turn out to be more interesting than we thought.

As far as 'Time Travel', it may be that we can 'view' the most recent past, just as gravity lensing shows two images of far-off galaxies, or the way the water in a drop seems to show objects slightly on the other side of the droplet. But actually 'traveling in time' in a physical sense may not be possible in the conventional sense. We may end up limited to being able to 'see' back a few nano-seconds or something like that.

OTOH, we may end up being able to completely simulate going back in time, say in a Holo-deck. But, of course we couldn't change anything in our 'real' past. We would be able to 'examine' events in the past, limited only by the completeness of our data.

Just some thoughts.


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.




[edit on 21/9/2008 by Badge01]



posted on Sep, 23 2008 @ 05:07 AM
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Originally posted by mapsurfer_
.. and it led me to investigate a resonance theory for lightwave propagation in order to explain why timewave calculations produce flatline results of 2012, and Telsa technologies.


Could you be more specific- it sounds like your confusing some conecpts from pure mathematics with real physical quantities.


Originally posted by mapsurfer_
but it occurred to me that there *must* have been a reason flat-earth thinkers think the way they do.

Yes, they just don't like the idea and reject- it's really that simple!


Originally posted by mapsurfer_
If a spherical object could be represented at flat object, then the inverse is true as well.


No. There's an area of mathematics called topology that deals with this. Put it simply, the plane is not homeomorphic to a sphere- they are very different spaces- a sphere has intrinsic curvature, a flat plane does not.


Originally posted by mapsurfer_
In the electronics field, this symbol infinity has name "Ohm" which is a fundamental element for the measurement of resistance. Is this a coincidence? Hmm.


No that's completely wrong I'm afraid. The symbol for resistance is capital Omega- it was called Ohm after the German Physicist Georg Ohm! It has nothing to do with the symbol for infinity!


Originally posted by mapsurfer_
Could it be that resistance is nothing more than the the specific gravity of an element?

Where did that come from? You have one active imagination- no resistance is just that- the resitence to a potential difference!


Originally posted by mapsurfer_
Common sense might tell ya, blasting light into light, may not be such a good idea.


You are aware surely that there are far more energetic objects in in the Universe than the LHC? The general misunderstanding of the LHC and it's ability is truely shocking!


Originally posted by mapsurfer_
Will the effect yield another dimension, a black hole, a fireball, or parhaps a Ring of Fire? Who really knows, but humanity is fixing to roll the dice and find out.


Create another dimension? What on earth do you mean by that? If it did create a black hole- and I'm rather skeptical about that- it could only exist for a fraction of a second since Hawking's result shows quite clearly that the surface temperature of a star is inversley proporional to its mass, so the smaller the black hole, the quicker it evaporates!


Originally posted by mapsurfer_
Is mankind taking something that belongs to God?


That rather depends on whether God exists- however if you believe in such things then I guess you could argue that since God created Man, then anything Man creates and understands is also an act of God.


Originally posted by mapsurfer_
I think it was Einstein that said, "God doesn't roll dice",

Yes but he was talking about Quantum Mechnics! Einstien disliked Quantum mechanics in particular it's apparent randomness.


Originally posted by mapsurfer_
so what gives humans that right? The Future will tell the history.. In my mind, we don't know the consequences of our actions until it is too late, "To Err is Human".


The right to understand how the Universe works! How can we not know consequences until they have happened! It's a little fact called cause and effect! Unfortunatley science is very good at what it does- so good in fact that it has allowed people to become very complacent about it- only a few people need to understand it for the rest to get all of the benfits out of it! It is thanks to science that we can have this conversation, yes?


Originally posted by mapsurfer_
Do we really trust ourselves with the fate of the planet?

Your belief in the power of human beings is truley remarkable. However, I don't think the time has yet come where mankind can leave a permenant mark on the solar system. You doom merchants really ought to have a glance around once in a while and take a day off!


Originally posted by mapsurfer_
Will Infinity be our destiny?

mystical mumbo-jumbo!



[edit on 23-9-2008 by timelike]



posted on Sep, 23 2008 @ 05:21 AM
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Originally posted by mapsurfer_

...perhaps if infinity folds back on itself, then those "What If?" types of questions arise from it.

How can it do that- infinity is just a mathematical concept, nothing more!


Originally posted by mapsurfer_
Does it make Time Travel more plausible?

No. In order to understand time travel it is gravity- not infinity- that we need to understand. At the moment I think the jury is still out on whether time travel is possible. The Einstien Field Equations are very complicated and only a few solutions are know. I think the general theory is that there may be some causility interjection brought about by quantum mechanics.
Until we have a complete theory of Quantum gravity, we shall never know!


Originally posted by mapsurfer_
Dimensional Travel?

Dimensions are just a mathematical invention and have little physical meaning. Inb general relativity, spacetime is 4 dimensional simply because to define a unique point or event in spacetime requires 4 coordinates or dimensions. Other dimensions are even more arbitrary, the 12 dimensions of string theory exist just to aloow for all the possible oscillations of the string.


Originally posted by mapsurfer_
Is there such a thing as real magic?

No.


Originally posted by mapsurfer_
I think along these lines because symbolic meaning of infinity is far reaching and ancient. The symbol seems to predate the math, which give it even more significance, imo.

The idea of forever is certainly a human concept but it does not predate maths. It seems unlikely that concepts of forever would occur without developing counting, sequences and geometry, this is where the need for infinity came from- from the need to define theorems about geometry and numbers for every number in existance etc. Moreover there are different types of infinity- the rational numbers are countable infinity for example, the real numbers are not etc.




[edit on 23-9-2008 by timelike]



posted on Sep, 23 2008 @ 06:46 AM
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reply to post by timelike
 

Please check your attributions. You have me in there as quoted and I said nothing about 'infinity'.

Thanks.



posted on Sep, 23 2008 @ 07:25 AM
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reply to post by Badge01
 



I'm sorry about that, I will edit it at once.



posted on Sep, 23 2008 @ 01:36 PM
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Those are some pretty interesting connections: mobius-infinity-mythological symbology

timelike: thanks for breaking down the difference between math and reality so someone like me could understand it.

Seems to me like math is only able to model certain real and theoretical relationships that naturally(or theoretically) occur as the universe constantly expands. Depending on the circumstances, varying forces culminate in manifestations of the mathematical illustrations.

I don't think if we ever did get to the edge of the universe that the rules would suddenly flip on us and we'd end up at the opposite side or anything quite like that.
I think we just don't know enough and we haven't quite evolved in the necessary ways to the point where we are able to step up as far as a more evolved species would be concerned. I believe as time progresses, if we haven't wiped ourselves out, natural selection may have enough time to yield some interesting evolutionary developments in our physiology and ability to unify in more ways with our surroundings. In combination with technology that we either couldn't even dream of yet or we have it and it's being hidden or saved until we are capable of operating it, we will eventually find a unifying theory that explains the function of god, the universe and everything in a more useful way than "42".

Ultimately, I can't imagine there won't be trade-offs, though, and we will always have limits at every level of existence.

The mystery of cellular memory and basic understanding about the conservation of energy lead me to believe that we are simply temporary constructs of elements and energies. We all came from the same place and will continue to multiply amongst infinite methods of recombination. Creativity and destruction from micro to macro in totality.

If we were able to reach the center, though...where it all began. That, I think, would be the most special(or the most spacial) place of all.



posted on Sep, 23 2008 @ 01:58 PM
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Yeah I didn't want to get into a heated debate about this topic, and people can argue the fine points of this theory. But there is something in my gut that led me to write this thread... just tying ancient symbols to new technology. You know the ol saying.. "There is nothing new under the sun", and "History repeats itself". It will continue this way until we reach zero point.


[edit on 23-9-2008 by mapsurfer_]






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