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Russia to equip Iran with 'game changer'?

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posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 04:36 PM
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Russia to equip Iran with 'game changer'?


www.presstv.ir

Russia plans to equip Iran with advanced antiaircraft defense systems amid reports that Israel will soon acquire advanced smart bombs.

Russian arms exporter Rosoboronexport has disclosed that despite US opposition, Moscow intends to empower Iran by supplying the country additional air defense systems.

Moscow has already delivered 29 Tor-M1 missile systems to Iran under a $700 million (£386 million) contract signed in 2005.

Reports, however, began to surface as early as 2005 on the possibility of another deal - the delivery to Iran of S-300 surface-to-air missile systems that can complicate any aerial strike on Iranian nuclear facilities.

"If Tehran obtained the S-300, it would be a game-changer in military thinking for tackling Iran. That could be a catalyst for Israeli air attacks before it is operational," said Dan Goure, a long-time Pentagon advisor, in late August.

"This is a system that scares every Western air force," he continued.
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 04:36 PM
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The rhetoric continues apace, with the news that russia may be supplying iran with advanced SAM systems.

This would certainly complicate matters for those who might wish to bomb iran - although how the system would fare against advanced aircraft is not something I can comment on.

It also raises the possibility of an escalation in the mini cold war we are seeing at the moment.

www.presstv.ir
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 04:45 PM
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IF this is true, it would almost force Israel to drag the U.S. into this, as we would easily take out their SAM sites with our cruise missiles, stealth air force, and intelligence. Something I'm unsure Israel would have the ability to do.



posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 04:51 PM
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reply to post by yellowcard
 


Hmmm, not entirely sure about that:

The S-300 is a series of Russian long range surface-to-air missile systems produced by the Almaz Scientific Industrial Corporation all based on the initial S-300P version. The S-300 system was developed to defend against aircraft and cruise missiles for the Soviet Air Defence Forces. Subsequent variations were developed to intercept ballistic missiles.

The S-300 system was first deployed by the USSR in 1979, designed for the air defense of large industrial and administrative facilities, military bases, and control of airspace against enemy strike aircraft.

The project-managing developer of the S-300 is Russian Almaz corporation (government owned, aka "KB-1") which is currently a part of "Almaz-Antei" Air Defense Concern. S-300 uses missiles developed by MKB "Fakel" design bureau (a separate government corporation, aka "OKB-2").

The S-300 is also capable of destroying ballistic missile targets, and is regarded as one of the most potent anti-aircraft missile systems currently fielded[2]. Its radars have the ability to simultaneously track up to 100 targets while engaging up to 12. S-300 deployment time is five minutes.[1][dead link] The S-300 missiles are sealed rounds and require no maintenance over their lifetime. An evolved version of the S-300 system is the S-400 (NATO reporting name SA-21), entering service in 2004.

wiki

If a pentagon advisor thinks this is a weapon to worry about, then we need someone qualified to provide a counter argument.



posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 04:56 PM
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New systems are always cause for concern. The S-300 family is worthy of concern based on its statistics alone esp the 175-200 km range. However, the IAF as they showed in Syria are pretty formidable themselves.



posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 04:58 PM
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... Just because no one has SAID they've given Iran s-300's doesn't necessarilly mean they haven't. Beyond that oh the irony of missiles designed in 1979 being a serious threat with the trillions we've spent since then to negate their advantage.



posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 04:58 PM
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The S-300 is also capable of destroying ballistic missile targets, and is regarded as one of the most potent anti-aircraft missile systems currently fielded[2]. Its radars have the ability to simultaneously track up to 100 targets while engaging up to 12. S-300 deployment time is five minutes.[1][dead link] The S-300 missiles are sealed rounds and require no maintenance over their lifetime.


Nice.
I read somewhere that the Russians had a deal with Iran for these weapons long before the newer tensions arose with Israel and the US. Still, i bet they feel pretty happy handing them over and p*ssing off the US even more.

Hopefully it will cause a stalemate between Iran and Israel, doubtful though.



posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 05:02 PM
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Originally posted by roguetechie
Beyond that oh the irony of missiles designed in 1979 being a serious threat with the trillions we've spent since then to negate their advantage.


Didn't the Yugoslav's shoot down a stealth bomber with an even older system?

[edit on 21/9/08 by Dermo]



posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 05:42 PM
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Yeah the rumors of the S-300 sale to Iran have been circulating for some time now in Russian sources. However Iran may already posssess an unknown number of these systems, most likely acquired from Belarus and Croatia.

I see nothing wrong with Russia selling these systems to Iran. While it won't completely prevent any attack against Iran by U.S. or Israel, it would severely complicate it. If this recent sale goes through, the units should become operation sometime in the first half of 2009 according to Israeli sources. Hopefully this will put an end to all the war rumors centering on Iran.



posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 05:48 PM
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Originally posted by Dermo
Didn't the Yugoslav's shoot down a stealth bomber with an even older system?


It was an S-125 system developed in the 60's. And the aircraft was a stealth fighter, not a bomber.

It is not the missile technology that resulted in that succesful shoot down, but a radar modification. Radars are really a key to these systems, and can improve their effectiveness greatly.



posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 06:24 PM
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This is madness.

It seems Russia and USA are building up a cold war in the hot middle east.

The place where your ice melts fast so I wouldn't be surprised if this will escalate sooner than we would expect.



posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 08:13 PM
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This exact same new story was posted on here over a month ago. Still news, just not breaking. I think some outlets just recycle past news so that the Iran crisis wont die down. And folks buy into it as breaking news. This is old.



posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 08:23 PM
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We would not have to worry so much about this if

Israel would shut up and stop building houses in violation of every g'damned peace accord.

I used to defend Israel back when they were a small country without this right-wing militant agenda, now I really don't care if the entire country goes up in flames. Also I have a lot of Jewish friends who think the same way, they refuse to give money or associate with Israelis in any way.



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 07:37 AM
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What radical right wing gov in Israel? Olmert and his crew have done nothing but sit idly by while Hezbo builds up on their border, they negotiate prisoner exchanges etc. This would have NEVER happened under previous leadership. Israel has had its most lethargic government in quite some time over there. Be glad Netanyahu isnt in power if you want to see right wing. You could kiss Iran good-bye if he gets in.


Originally posted by 2stepsfromtop
We would not have to worry so much about this if

Israel would shut up and stop building houses in violation of every g'damned peace accord.

I used to defend Israel back when they were a small country without this right-wing militant agenda, now I really don't care if the entire country goes up in flames. Also I have a lot of Jewish friends who think the same way, they refuse to give money or associate with Israelis in any way.



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 07:55 AM
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Originally posted by princeofpeace
What radical right wing gov in Israel? Olmert and his crew have done nothing but sit idly by while Hezbo builds up on their border, they negotiate prisoner exchanges etc. This would have NEVER happened under previous leadership. Israel has had its most lethargic government in quite some time over there. Be glad Netanyahu isnt in power if you want to see right wing. You could kiss Iran good-bye if he gets in.


Originally posted by 2stepsfromtop
We would not have to worry so much about this if

Israel would shut up and stop building houses in violation of every g'damned peace accord.

I used to defend Israel back when they were a small country without this right-wing militant agenda, now I really don't care if the entire country goes up in flames. Also I have a lot of Jewish friends who think the same way, they refuse to give money or associate with Israelis in any way.


I was about to say exactly the same thing, well put.

The S-300 maybe a game changer for Israel but not the US. There have been reports regarding Israels ability to infiltrate the system electronically. Where there is a will, there is a way!



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 09:36 AM
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reply to post by budski
 


When there is a will there is a way as long there are idiots running countries.

Greece assists Israel as war with Iran looms


Greece assists Israel as war with Iran looms
Greece has the same Russian S-300 ground-to-air radar systems as Iran. A June 2008 exercise with Israel may be preparation for strike.
Monday, July 14, 2008
By Edwin Black

Greece has quietly assisted the Israeli Air Force in a previously unreported fashion as the dreaded decision of a possible Israeli preemptive strike against Iran’s nuclear facilities draws closer, this reporter has learned.

A pivotal factor in Israel’s military strategy against Iran’s nuclear installations is the recent delivery to Iran of Russia’s potent S-300 Russian ground-to-air radar systems. Considered one of world’s most versatile radar-missile systems, Russia’s S-300 batteries can simultaneous track hundreds of semi-stealth cruise missiles, long range missiles and aircraft, including airborne monitoring jets.

As many as ten intruders can be simultaneously engaged by the S-300’s mobile interceptor missile batteries, military sources say. As such, the S-300 is a major threat to the long-range weapons in the Israeli arsenal.

These include Israel’s long-range 1,500 km. nuclear-capable Jericho IIB missiles; unmanned missile-equipped long-range drones; Israel’s F-16s, F-15Es; long range heavy-payload F151s and F161s; and even its three new Gulfstream G550 business jets boasting a range of 6,750 nautical miles, newly outfitted with nuclear-tracking electronics and designed to loiter over or near Iranian skies for hours. The S-300 can compromise everything Israel has.

But Greece has the same Russian S-300 system.

Originally purchased by Cyprus in 1998, the Cypriot installation provoked a storm of protracted protests by Turkey because the system would make vulnerable all Turkish air movements. To resolve tensions and prevent a Turkish preemptive attack on the installations, the S-300 by international agreement was moved to Crete for safekeeping, and eventually joint-Cypriot-Greek control based on the 1993 mutual defense pact between Cyprus and Greece. On December 20, 2007, the move and installation of the S-300 was quietly completed.

In the last days of May and first week of June, 2008, Israel staged an impressive and well-reported exercise over Crete with the participation of the Greek air force. More than 100 Israeli F-16 and F-15 fighter jets, as well as Israeli rescue helicopters and mid-air refueling planes flew a massive number of mock strikes. Israeli planes reportedly never landed but were continuously refueled from airborne platforms. Israel demonstrated that a 1400 km distance could be negotiated with Israeli aircraft remaining aloft and effective. Iran’s Natanz nuclear enrichment facility is 1400 km from Israel.

While the Israeli-Greek air tactics were amply reported in the world’s media after initial reports in the New York Times, the pivotal information from Greece’s S-300 batteries has remained below the radar. By swarming its jets into the S-300’s massive electronics, Israel was able to record invaluable information about defeating, jamming and circumventing the Russian system.

Israel dubbed its exercise “Glorious Spartan.” It is recalled that 300 glorious Spartans went down in history by forestalling the massive Persian army at a tiny land passage at the Battle of Thermopylae in 480 BC. The tiny Jewish State is now contemplating whether it must act unilaterally to forestall Iran’s nuclear threat.

Iranian officials complained bitterly to Athens after the exercise, but were told by Greek officials that their Russian-made radar-missile batteries were “turned off” during the exercise, according to Greek, Russian and Iranian sources. Those sources expressed incredulity that Greece would “turn off” its critical radar installations and air defense during such an exercise. Shortly after that exercise, Iran began signaling to European diplomats that Tehran might be willing to negotiate in earnest.

Iran’s S-300s are more updated than the Greek installation. Russian sources speculated that as many as five batteries were recently delivered to Iran, these having been pulled from active Russia defense units. The transaction is thought to be


To tell you the truth if a public vote was issued in Greece for letting a common Israeli Greek exercise the result would be a sounding NO. Because public opinion is primarily against an attack on Iran as it was against an invasion on Iraq, but yet again governments do not ask people for their support, they act on their own as if they are disconnected from the very people they have been voted to govern.

In that light of events, Israel pretty much has been long expecting a Russian delivery of the S 300 system to Iran, so why all the fuss about it now? IMO it was a mistake from the Greek government to let this exercise happen. They have already given anything the US side asked, so it would be clever to remain a bit neutral and not worsen relations with Russia.
On the other hand maybe they were forced to act like this since the SIEMENS corporation scandal has been surfacing even months before this exercise. Siemens scandal brought to light from an US Congress committee responsible for searching about economic scandals, has been brought forth before some months or at least a year, where the present candidate for the US presidential race Mr. John McCain was head of this committee.
Coincidence?

Readers must have in mind that also Israel apart from Turkey although acting a bit under the radar on this one also pressured for an S300 system to not be deployed in the parts of the non occupied Cyprus which happens to be an ally of Israel along with Greece. Strange.
IMO this move of a common exercise was an idiotic one simply because there is dispute between Greece/Cyprus vs Turkey about territorial waters (underwater oil fields of good grade in Easter Aegean) and an S300 system was a good deterant in case of a looming territorial dispute. Now possibly Turkey being an ally of Israel thus sharing vital information pretty much knows everything about the Greek air defence.

[edit on 22-9-2008 by spacebot]



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 10:20 AM
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Originally posted by yellowcard
IF this is true, it would almost force Israel to drag the U.S. into this, as we would easily take out their SAM sites with our cruise missiles, stealth air force, and intelligence. Something I'm unsure Israel would have the ability to do.


Well another way is to overwhelm the system with mock targets.

You send a lot of "drones" in or UAV's pulling "sleds" or dummy targets.

When the defense system runs out of missiles, you send a small force
in to see if it is out of munitions.

If the small force makes its run, then you can send others, but don't
send them all at once in case they did decide to play empty.

Running the enemy out of ammo has been done before, but not
on the missile scale before to my knowledge.

Also as for the radars, radar homing missile tech is old,
and I'd say Israel has some radar homing missiles to take
down the radars.

We used to do it in a limited amount back in Vietnam flying
what was called a Iron Hand mission.

Ironhand missions

So it has been around for decades.

Iran may feel safe with their radars, but once they come on they
are open for Radar lock from a missile like the old Shrikes.



[edit on 22-9-2008 by Ex_MislTech]



posted on Sep, 25 2008 @ 07:00 AM
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Originally posted by FredT
the IAF as they showed in Syria are pretty formidable themselves.


IAF attacking Syria was not really a big deal because Syria hasn't got much anyway.IAF not attacking Iran till now just shows they know Iran ain't no piece of cake.If hezbollah gave israel a bloody nose than Iran has the capability of destroying more than 60% of israeli millitary infrastructure and with the backing of proxy millitant groups israel will basically be D00med.



posted on Sep, 25 2008 @ 12:25 PM
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The US has a problem with Iran buying air defense systems?

... I've got an easy solution.

Don't bomb Iran.



This whole thing reminds me of two children in a school yard.
With the bully pissed off cause the kid who was supposed to be his victim just found a bat to defend himself with.
"Hey, you can't do that, you have to let me hit you!"



Governments.

... when WILL they grow up?



posted on Sep, 25 2008 @ 12:51 PM
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Originally posted by Dermo

Originally posted by roguetechie
Beyond that oh the irony of missiles designed in 1979 being a serious threat with the trillions we've spent since then to negate their advantage.


Didn't the Yugoslav's shoot down a stealth bomber with an even older system?

[edit on 21/9/08 by Dermo]


not exactly

the F-117 Nighthawk that was shot down has a extremely low stealth capability

for purposes of this example, lets call the F-117 stealth rank 2
where as the French Rafale or B-1 Lancer would fit along stealth rank 1

its just a generalized scale to show u how "stealth" something may be

on this same scale, the B-2 Spirit long range bomber , would be more like Stealth rank 8 or rank 9

as you can see, from the development of the f-117 to the development of the b-2 , there is a huge jump in stealth capability

also, the F-117 isnt exactly called a bomber, despite that is its primary function ; nevertheless , it is reffered to as a Attack aircraft

the differance being, is a "bomber" generally is a larger variety of aircraft with significant payload used for strategic bombing of multiple targets

where a "attack" aircraft is used for individual tactical bombing of 1 or 2 targets , as the aircraft carry significantly less payload than a bomber would

point being, that the F-117 cannot be considered "truely stealth" by today's technological standards

the B-2 spirit and the F-22 can however be considered, "true stealth" in this comparison

but when we talk about stealth, we cannot forget Electronic warfare
A successful electronic warfare attack on radar or other sensor installations, effectively renders ALL Aircraft on the attacking side "Stealth"

simply because the radars themselves are jammed or disabled, they cannot track anything and all of their missles become nearly useless

thats what you really need to take into consideration i think, is the Electronic warfare technology, and how Iran could possibly combat that

Why doesnt anyone ever talk about what kind of Electronic warfare countermeasures Iran has? Because in the event of a real war, that will be the bottom line in my opinion.

Because I firmly believe it will be Electronic warfare that will seal the air battle




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