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What would justify the overthrow of the American Government?

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posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 04:33 PM
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After all the events that have occurred in the last 7 years (domestic spying, executive orders that ignore the constitution, abuse by those in authority, and the government bail outs, etc.) What do you feel would justify a violent overthrow? At what point do you feel the government has stopped acting for and in the interest of the people?

Our founding fathers felt much less was required than is happening now to do such.

I think that the government has gone too far with the proposal of foreign bail outs. I used to think that I would not be this outraged until some executive orders were executed, but this has left me with no faith in the government.

The government has been acclimating the population to fear foreign or islamic extremist terrorism, but I think the government should be more concerned about domestic revolutionaries in the future.

Note: This thread and this post do not and are not intended to suggest a violent overthrow of the government should occur. It is merely to gather and give opinions on that individuals feel justify such actions.

[edit on 21-9-2008 by Wolf321]




posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 04:47 PM
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Personally, I believe that time has come and gone.


These treasonous polititions should have been strung up by their necks a long time ago.

As long as there is a McDonalds on every corner and a football game to whatch, it will never happen.



posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 04:51 PM
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I agree that time has passed. The moment a government by and for the people do not redress any single one of our grievances its time to remove their power. The problem is that the peoples complacency has been at work for so long that it is too late for anyone to do anything about it.

Our only option is to watch it die a slow economic death and possibly intervene in the midst of that in order to change the system back to what it used to be, even if we believe capitalism and democracy even work anymore.



posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 04:55 PM
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reply to post by bismarcksea
 


What was your "last straw" ?



posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 05:26 PM
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For years the public has been mislead.TPB playing on the competive spirit of the people by manipulating the election process.The average citizen can't see the forest for the trees.While one side panders to the save the whales/kill the babies crowd,the other side kindles the rape the land/jail the alien crowd.Meanwhile both parties are just opposite sides of the same coin.Tax/spend or spend/tax.
We have had no representation in washington for nearly one hundred years. We as a people have been grist for the Federal Reserve's mill since 1913.Even before that Andrew Jackson tried to get the money back from private hands and failed miserably.
This country is done.Call in the dogs and piss on the fire.Anything that could have been done has long since passed.We stand at a cross road now.
We either have to accept the comming "new order" of the economy like the idiots they know we are or rebel.Not violently,just by doing everything in your power to not accept what they consider inevitable.Barter/trade,raise your own food,be self sufficent.By the time they see that their plan is failing,they will be engaged with the debtor nations trying to keep this country out of a hostile takeover.
Then and only then will we have the chance to make things right. There are still plenty of patriots in this country,that know dieing for the ideals of this country is a worthy cause.
Stand your ground!! God knows they want to take it from you. Don't give them the satisfaction!



posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 05:30 PM
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reply to post by Wolf321
 


My last straw was NAFTA in the 90's. I knew that was the beginning of the end. They sold us all downstream to keep the house of cards up for another few years.



posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 05:32 PM
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Originally posted by daddyroo45
Not violently,just by doing everything in your power to not accept what they consider inevitable.Barter/trade,raise your own food,be self sufficent.By the time they see that their plan is failing,they will be engaged with the debtor nations trying to keep this country out of a hostile takeover.


The barter/trade thing can only be done on a small and local scale. If someone ever works out a way to 'ebay' barter-trading then the government will want to regulate and tax it somehow I am sure. As far as self-sufficiency goes, you can see the way government try's to restrict or prohibit things like raw milk, it isn't much of a stretch before they clamp down on self production, especially if the rest of government is going sour.

daddyroo, at what point would you feel then that violence is justifiable or warranted?



posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 06:15 PM
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Hi There,

Being a Brit, I would hope you welcome some observations and comments I'd like to make concerning the 'OP's' question on 'what would justify the overthrow of the (currently incumbent) American administration'?

You are not out to overthrow the administration, but to seek a return to Constitutional values. There is no need to offer violence on the streets of America, but by all means peacefully protest: in fact, it is essential that you do...in your millions, time and time again. Doing so may run the risk of running the gauntlet of violence meted out to the protester by the authorities, but alas, that is what you are going to have to face.

Let the world see that the American people are doing whatever is necessary (short of being violent) to repatriate themselves to the values of their Constitution. You will see a wave of empathy engulf the planet that has never been witnessed. The problem (from the foreign perspective) is that Americans are perceived not to understand that what transpires in America ripples out to affect other countries. Your apathy sends out the wrong signal, rather than being in the same boat as some other countries, you are perceived to sanction whatever your administration deems fit for its own benefit...hence you are criticised.

The time of election is almost upon you, and is the time (the all-pervading moment) to be most vociferous in the loudest voice, shouting out as one nation for the principles upon which it was foundered. Let your feet thunder down the roads to the Whitehouse, let the rumble underfoot shake and tremble the theives in that hallowed building...what have you got to lose now, but the proud name America? If you do nothing, you will surely lose it. The dream is over, awaken now to the nightmare and shake it from your hearts, but above all be not timid...be not a 'fair-weather patriot', rejoice in the cause that is now your greatest purpose...save your bloody country!

Remember, you don't get mad...you get even...oh so even! What are you up against, an overwhelming adversary? Never! Not even in your wildest imaginings. They are just crooks who must now face the people and the world for what they have done. Do not allow them a profit, or a gate by which to escape. If this is your bleakest hour, then it is also the time when the tide turns...all you have to do is reach out and grasp the hour. Do it as a nation or die as one.

Best wishes



posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 09:05 PM
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reply to post by elysiumfire
 


Thanks for the foreign input on the matter. I do disagree with you that peaceful protest will do any good at this point. I haven't seen protests be affective on a national level since the Civil Rights movement. In comparison, that was far less significant than the things occurring today for the nation.

Considering your outside vantage, at what point would you think the people would be justified in taking up arms? Or did you agree, now is justified, but you still support protest?



posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 09:14 PM
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I think once the Vets, Military and current Police forces join together to protect and serve We The People instead of them the oppressors. It will happen. They may condition our troops, but at the end of the day I believe they will say enough is enough and take matters into their own hands. Unfortunately much madness will happen first.



posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 09:16 PM
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reply to post by antar
 


So I take it that you feel the conditions that warrant armed revolution have been met. If so, then what in your opinion was the 'last straw' ?



posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 09:17 PM
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Just what's going on now with our current economics meltdown. Tea was poured into the harbor for much less than this in the day.



posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 09:22 PM
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It will be justified when it happens, simple as that. The victors write the histories.

Personally, I can imagine some tripwires. I will not be chipped. I will not tolerate my vote being taken. I will not report to a camp.

The sad reality, however, is that the larger the population, the less likely we are to change. The inertia the cattle provide the government will prevent serious insurrection. The hope we have is that we are still a representative democracy. It is certainly within the power of all peoples to determine their own fates, and we even have the constitutional tools to do so peacefully. Perhaps the day will come when circumstances provide the impetus to do so.



posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 09:37 PM
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reply to post by elysiumfire
 


To quote Howard Zinn: 'Dissent is the highest form of patriotism.'

As to what would justify the overthrow of the Goverment, and to clarify, I mean send all the A-holes who think they are above the people packing? Suspension of the Constitution! If they were to do that, then as patriots, we should teach them to remember the first line of that document; We The People...




posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 09:46 PM
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Hi There,

Wolf321:

...at what point would you think the people would be justified in taking up arms? Or did you agree, now is justified, but you still support protest?


I have to say that I cannot agree to armed or violent resistance, but I feel I can understand how the current situation and the prevailing sense of both dread and hopelessness can push mindsets towards such acts.

What is justified is protest. The country is divided as to what entails right thinking and action, but any form of violent resistance will be utterly crushed. Think of how the Afro-American felt when they were seeking equality, think about how many gauntlets of hate they challenged, the fear they contended with to reach their goal. Primarily, their protests were peaceful protests, although they were met with violence, racial-hatred, they did not shrink from the task at hand. Likewise, the situation calls for similar action, with an equal resolve...no matter what the cost. They succeeded because they had a federal government on their side, and they gained the larger percentage of empathy. Their fight for equality was a fight for equality for all Americans. Until they gained that equality, America could never be a fair and equal society.

As a nation, Americans must once again march for the founding principles of their country. The Constitution is the only ideal that Americans will rally for each other as one nation, it is the only document and cause that brings you all together...it is the backbone of your fight. You have a common enemy, not foreign, but domestic. You have to find a way to put aside your individual differences, needs, and wants. You are not out to survive each other, but to survive with each other...united you'll prevail, but of course, divided you will fall. You have to convince those whom police you that it is equally their country that needs wresting from the grip of the Bush mafia...many will listen, many will question their role, especially if they are used to bring fear and violence against protesters. Unfortunately, it's going to get a lot worse before it gets better.

I believe we will see desperation and fear drive the Bush mafia into committing acts of social atrocity, from instigating martial law, to possibly the cancellations of the elections. We may see false-flag events taking lives, but whatever happens, you must focus on the ideals of the Constitution, and abide by them. Peaceful protest is the way, but it will not gain anything overnight. It will take a drawn out struggle, filled with despair and hopelessness, and a harshness most Americans will have never faced or endured. The world will not sit back idly watching from the edge of the arena, once they see right action and thinking being committed to in America, marches will appear in other countries...pressure will be brought to bear on the politicians of those countries. Britain for one is ready for the kick off. Give the world something by which they can cojoin with you, but do not give them images of violence and riots...that cannot be supported, nor matter how righteous it may considered to be.

The call is not simply that for Americans to protest, but one that calls for global protest. It is no good that the rest of the world protests on your behalf without America taking part. America is the fault line, that is why it should all precipitate from you.

Best wishes



posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 09:52 PM
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reply to post by Wolf321
 


The last straw for me will be the institution of martial law.I'm speaking military encroachment upon the rights of the people.Curfew's and the like after an earthquake or other "natural" disaster I can understand.However armed crowd control,whilst the people are trying to understand the situation that has befallen them,is an intolerable act.
The service oath is meant to protect the constitution.Anyone stripping away the civil rights of the populace commits treason.Pure and simple.Treason is a high crime punishable by death.
As citizens that duty falls upon us when those in office refuse to uphold the true laws of the land.To mead out justice.
We as citizens have the authority to conduct jury trials,when and if the established forums fail to deliver justice.
Never forget,we ARE the People of the united states.The only power a bullying force has is what we let them have.



posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 10:03 PM
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So many occasions when the American public was betrayed by bankers, judges, lawyers, politicians, congressmen, and presidents. I don't think there is a statute of limitations for social justice. Recently the offenses have been snowballing, the bailout is only the latest in a sad series spanning at least 2 centuries.

Will it happen? Tomorrow will tell.

Note: this is the abstract tomorrow, I'm not threatening to revolt on Sept. 22



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 12:57 PM
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reply to post by elysiumfire
 


So just to clarify, taking arms in your opinion is not justifiable. Correct?



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 01:13 PM
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I believe TPTB would love for the citizens to revolt in a violent manner. It would give them the chance to acquire real estate and possessions of those that are killed or incarcerated, creating lots of employment opportunities for a new imported working class that are tolerant oppressive governments.



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 01:29 PM
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if they ever suspended the constitution over some lyin bull sheet i'd go look for a group to join to help vent some anger




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