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The Art of Dying: Discussion on C2C- Amazing!

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posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 12:32 AM
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Originally posted by Gateway

Originally posted by Ron Paul Girl
reply to post by TrueAmerican
 



I'm a little confused, why do you think NDE are part of Satan's deception?

Even if it is a deception as you say, then the joke is on Satan, because most people that have this experience change the way they live and see their lives, they become more spiritual, they are appreciative of life at the same time find comfort and solace that their dead loved ones have gone to a far better place


The part about becoming "more spiritual" is where the devil is in the details. In what what? Yes, some do become Christians, but it seems like the vast majority take these NDE and delve into "spirituality" that does not involve Christ. That is where the deception is that I'm speaking of.




posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 12:43 AM
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Originally posted by jpm1602
So very typical and expected Gateway. Some occums razor atheist to come about and attempt to naysay anyones beatiful experience. It was bound and determined to happen.


Yeah, what I find rather peculiar and a bit hypocritical from those that claim to be atheist, is to hear them clutch so strongly to CURRENT science as if it is all KNOWING, as if TODAY'S SCIENCE EXPLAINS EVERYTHING, and nothing has yet to be discovered, while at the sometime denigrating others beliefs about Religion, Afterlife, and spirituality.

I look at it this way, these same Atheist if they existed in the Middle Ages would hold the belief and support the current science of the time that thought; bleeding a pint or two from someone would cure them of the bubonic plague.

I've always respected agnostics far more than atheists, at least they don't hold such arrogant views as to know for certain what happens after death, agnostics rightly hold the view that WE DON'T KNOW...


[edit on 22-9-2008 by Gateway]



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 12:47 AM
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Originally posted by Ron Paul Girl

The part about becoming "more spiritual" is where the devil is in the details. In what what? Yes, some do become Christians, but it seems like the vast majority take these NDE and delve into "spirituality" that does not involve Christ. That is where the deception is that I'm speaking of.


Spirituality does not conflict with Christ's message of Love and respect your fellow man. I think this is a good message. I'm a Catholic, I think if anything NDE are proof that we maybe right and the Atheists and Agnostics should re-think things.



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 12:49 AM
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My daughter is studing to be a mortician. She is not there as the person is dying but shortly after to pick up the body. She has seen many things in the short time she has been doing this.

A few weeks ago they went to pick a man up who had died at home. His little dog was running around the house playing with the cops and anyone else who would pay attention to him. When they went in to retrieve the man, the little dog jumped up on the bed and on top of the guy and started growling and barking. They could not move the dog. His ex wife had to finally get there to remove the dog.

[edit on 22-9-2008 by Watcher777]



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 12:50 AM
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You are a truth warrior Gateway. I respect that. Literally millions of people at end stage death with loved ones and so many common experience.

I knew the debunkers would be out in force on this one. Bare truth known.

NOBODY knows for sure. One way or the other. I've lived long enough to know there are no coincidences.

Same scenario watcher on my parents street many years ago. Only this pup was a 140lb great dane. It took three cops and two dog wardens three hours to snare this dog.




[edit on 9/22/2008 by jpm1602]



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 12:52 AM
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Originally posted by Gateway

Originally posted by Ron Paul Girl

The part about becoming "more spiritual" is where the devil is in the details. In what what? Yes, some do become Christians, but it seems like the vast majority take these NDE and delve into "spirituality" that does not involve Christ. That is where the deception is that I'm speaking of.


Spirituality does not conflict with Christ's message of Love and respect your fellow man. I think this is a good message. I'm a Catholic, I think if anything NDE are proof that we maybe right and the Atheists and Agnostics should re-think things.


Yes, Jesus said that the greatest commandment is that we love our neighbor as ourselves. But He also made it clear that his the way, the truth and the life and no one comes unto the Father but through Him. We all need foregiveness. We've all screwed up. None are good. We can't compare ourselves to one another. The comparison should be between us and Christ and no man on earth comes anywhere close to His example.



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 12:57 AM
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reply to post by jpm1602
 

Thank you for the compliment. I've noticed here on ATS most people believe in UFOs but I find it rather odd that some of these same folks quickly try to debunk the existence of the Afterlife.



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 01:06 AM
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reply to post by asmeone2[/i

Life after death is an easy concept to comprehend, before and after. If you know anything about modern science you can pretty much see how everything is connected. You must first understand that everything is light. All matter is just oscillating particles and they vibrate at different vibrations or frequencies. Dead people aren't really dead but just residing on another frequency, all their particles behave differently in some way then ours here on the 3rd Dimension. We can only see 0.00005 % of the electromagnetic(Light) spectrum(or something close to that. I may be of by a thousandth.). The small portion of the light spectrum only allows for so much comprhension of reality. Also, remember that humans are not very far along as far as evolution is concerned. Our greatest warriors still tote grizzly, fossil fueled, rock throwers.(just had to say it.) Anyways, one day we will evolve and all our advancements with telescope and a lot of truths will be revealed. This is a time just like the time of copernicus. A huge scientific revolution is upon us. This scientists work is an EXCELLENT example of the kind of material that will be praised for it's innovation soon.



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 01:08 AM
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post by Ron Paul Girl Yes, Jesus said that the greatest commandment is that we love our neighbor as ourselves. But He also made it clear that his the way, the truth and the life and no one comes unto the Father but through Him. We all need foregiveness. We've all screwed up. None are good. We can't compare ourselves to one another. The comparison should be between us and Christ and no man on earth comes anywhere close to His example.

Yes, but I also believe as a Christian, that God is the only one to judge. Therefore, I as a peaceful Christian, and yet sinful man, since we've been all expelled from Paradise cannot claim to hold righteousness above that of my fellow man. As Christians we cannot be quick to cast those that do not believe in Christ as going to hell. It is he who will judge them, not I.



[edit on 22-9-2008 by Gateway]



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 01:16 AM
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Originally posted by Gateway

Yes, but I also believe as a Christian, that God is the only one to judge. Therefore, I as a peaceful Christian, and yet sinful man, since we've been all expelled from Paradise cannot claim to hold righteousness above that of my fellow man. As Christians we cannot be quick to cast those that do not believe in Christ as going to hell. It is he who will judge them, not I.
[edit on 22-9-2008 by Gateway]


Jesus already has made that judgement because it's written that He is the only way. He said so Himself. No, we don't need to be running around telling people they're going to hell, but we should desire to tell them the truth and let them do with that truth what they choose to. We don't know that in their final moments on earth, they won't have Christ appear before them and offer them one last chance for forgiveness. But, as Christians, we should never encourage the "sprituality" that does not lead to repentence and forgiveness through Christ. That's what I'm trying to say, in a round about way. I believe that when we encourage it or turn a blind eye to it, if those people go to hell, we will have their blood on our hands and we'll have to answer for it.



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 01:22 AM
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reply to post by whiteraven
 


Whiteraven. You can go to www.wlap.com... and there you can listen to C2C for free! Yay! I do this a lot, unfortunately I missed what must have been a wonderful show the other night.



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 01:33 AM
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Originally posted by Benarius
I had 3 near death experiences very early in my life. And all were in conjuction with water. I'll tell you about my first, which took all fear of dying till this day 30 years later. I keep the story short. As I was struggling in the cold water, I didn't feel anything anymore. All I remember is hearing music and seeing white light. Thats all. The next thing I remembered is being pulled into a fishing boat. And then blackout till I warmed up and came out of shock.

Similar drowning accidents happened twice later. These 3 experiences happened between my age of 7 and 12.

What I do remember is during the struggles, even my body was fighting, my mind was at easy, feeling mellow. Somehow as if there is a fuse that shuts off everything.

Years later, these experiences made me come to the conclusion that it was just too early for me to die. That I still need to do something before they accept me on the otherside. Still not sure what it is. I'll keep looking.





same happened to me, such a peace of body and mind took over. then the same message about not the time to die and other things to achieve



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 01:37 AM
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reply to post by TrueAmerican
 


All of these experiences could be linked to the drug '___'. It is a drug that is released during death and the same drug that induces dreams. It is one of, if not the, most potent hallucinogens in the world.



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 01:37 AM
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Originally posted by Ron Paul Girl Jesus already has made that judgement because it's written that He is the only way. He said so Himself. No, we don't need to be running around telling people they're going to hell, but we should desire to tell them the truth and let them do with that truth what they choose to.

I agree with this, but up to a certain point. For example certainly, some of my fellow Christians have mistakenly twisted God's word and proclaimed it as their own to take up fighting in his name. Certainly, there has been some bad history of trying to spread his word by the sword, WHICH IS COMPLETELY UN-CHRISTIAN LIKE, George Bush is one for example, he's a man who really thinks GOD has spoken to HIM personally and tries to justify it to himself and the American people to go and kill to try to bring his "democracy" to other parts of the globe.



We don't know that in their final moments on earth, they won't have Christ appear before them and offer them one last chance for forgiveness. But, as Christians, we should never encourage the "sprituality" that does not lead to repentence and forgiveness through Christ. That's what I'm trying to say, in a round about way. I believe that when we encourage it or turn a blind eye to it, if those people go to hell, we will have their blood on our hands and we'll have to answer for it.


Ronpaul girl, I think Ron Paul is a man of peace, truly a model of what a Christian should be. The last statement about "turning a blind eye" to how others wish to live their lives, is the argument the Necons make when they go off and apply their foreign intervention.

Christ's message, is a message of peace, understanding, and forgiveness, very much the message of Ron Paul. Both messages are not of intervening in people's lives and making them see that democracy is the only way, or that Christ is the only way. Again, that is for he to decide, it is for he to take full account on how they lived their life.




[edit on 22-9-2008 by Gateway]



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 01:58 AM
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Originally posted by Ketzer22

All of these experiences could be linked to the drug '___'. It is a drug that is released during death and the same drug that induces dreams. It is one of, if not the, most potent hallucinogens in the world.


Except for one major problem.

The consistency of these experiences.

Have you ever taken '___'? I have. I mean, in a dream, in a few dreams I have. And in these dreams the experiences from '___' were anything and everything but consistent


Also, '___' being released during death, and released during dreams, is theory. Unless you have some sources you can share with more definitive findings?

[edit on 22-9-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 02:17 AM
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Strive to be like Jesus

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16

He never condemned anyone, and the people he chose as his apostles were from all walks of life, some were once murders, thieves, and scoundrels. He forgave the prostitute without hesitation, and he told the person dieing on the cross next to him that he would see him in heaven that same day.

He didn't try to take over any countries or kill people in the name of God. He was peaceful, loving and kind.

Far more then can be said about most organized religions and religious people today. People are so quick to judge. Churches so fast to condemn. All in the name of Jesus, or God.

All I can do is try to be as loving, accepting and forgiving as Jesus was.

------------
Also, as a health care provider I have numerous stories from NDE's. It is very strange indeed to have someone you resuscitated meet you, recognize you and call you by name because they say they watched you work on them.

The only one that really haunts me tho is a young girl that died in my ambulance, she had a massive pulmonary embolism. She was in quite a bit of distress before she went unconscious. And right after she sat up eyes open and let out the most horrifying scream I have ever heard before or since; it gives me chills thinking about it to write this. I then watched as both her pupils fully dilated, which obviously was the point at which her brain died. I don't know what made her scream like that, but I know I don't like to think about it.

[edit on 9/22/2008 by toepick]



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 03:14 AM
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Originally posted by toepick
Strive to be like Jesus

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16

He never condemned anyone, and the people he chose as his apostles were from all walks of life, some were once murders, thieves, and scoundrels. He forgave the prostitute without hesitation, and he told the person dieing on the cross next to him that he would see him in heaven that same day.

He didn't try to take over any countries or kill people in the name of God. He was peaceful, loving and kind.

Far more then can be said about most organized religions and religious people today. People are so quick to judge. Churches so fast to condemn. All in the name of Jesus, or God.

All I can do is try to be as loving, accepting and forgiving as Jesus was.
Words to live by.




Also, as a health care provider I have numerous stories from NDE's. It is very strange indeed to have someone you resuscitated meet you, recognize you and call you by name because they say they watched you work on them. The only one that really haunts me tho is a young girl that died in my ambulance, she had a massive pulmonary embolism. She was in quite a bit of distress before she went unconscious. And right after she sat up eyes open and let out the most horrifying scream I have ever heard before or since; it gives me chills thinking about it to write this. I then watched as both her pupils fully dilated, which obviously was the point at which her brain died. I don't know what made her scream like that, but I know I don't like to think about it.
Wow.... Do you think it might have been the pain and agony that she might have been in, that made her scream?


[edit on 22-9-2008 by Gateway]



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 03:22 AM
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Originally posted by toepick
Strive to be like Jesus
...He never condemned anyone...


I get your overall point but I wouldn't say that Jesus never condemned anyone. My impression is that he roundly and consistently condemned religious leaders who made a big deal out of their own self-proclaimed righteousness. He condemned those who fasted ostentatiously and made public displays of their alms-giving and charitable works. Christ called these religious hypocrites for what they were. "Whited sepulchres" is the phrase that I recall -- marble-white on the outside and thoroughly rotten on the inside. Strong condemnation indeed, and addressed to those who used their "faith" to point accusatory fingers at the truly humble and meritorious.

He also loudly and violently condemned the money-lenders in the temple and set about them with a whip. This fine example should be followed by all who care to call themselves Christians - start at the Federal Reserve, loudly condemn all of those corrupt money masters while whipping them to within an inch of their lives. That's where Christ started, remember. After that's been accomplished, they might be able to tell everyone else what to believe and who to follow. But not before.


Meanwhile, regarding NDEs -- I was involved in a high speed car crash and I was certain that I was about to die. As the car left the road and careered into a hill I remember thinking, "This is it...this is where all the questions will be answered." It was almost an anti-climax when I came to rest, totally uninjured. There had been no fear or panic, just a calmness and a sense of resignation to the inevitable.
It's interesting that the feeling of calmness generally seems to be reported to be present amongst those who are dying of an illness or an injury. In my own case, I wasn't ill. But I still felt at peace in the face of death. This suggests that the mind has a mechanism for shutting out any pointless pain and suffering if all hope of survival seems to be lost. In other words, NDEs are a bit of a red herring -- they don't provide proof of an afterlife and they don't prove that there isn't one either.

It's a subject that we'll all come back to one day!
I happen to believe that there is a life after this one (or perhaps it'll be just a different perspective on reality) but it's not something about which I expect to find physical proof in this present life. After all, the NDE is not the same thing as the Death Experience. We should be wary of interpreting the living brain's perceptions as if they are necessarily relevant to a completely different kind of existence which is independent of our physical laws.



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 03:48 AM
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I didn't expect to post here, and surely didn't think I would.... but some of the stories are so amazingly like my NDE experience, that I feel I must share it.

My NDE too, was in water. I was older .... 27. I was in a pool, and suddenly could not move my arms or legs. Health care individuals will say it was a siezure-like activity, although I have never experienced any siezures before or since. I was awake and aware, just unable to move my extremities. I held my breath as long as possible, looking up at the surface of the water a few feet above me. I then felt everything go dark.

It wasn't the tunnel with the light at the end, or the figures reaching out to me that I remember so much as the feeling of pure love and a sense of being "released". I felt myself expand in a direction that I didn't realize existed. I am explaining it clumsily, but I really don't have any other words to describe the feeling.

I remember being "pulled" (not the right word, but again, I don't have the words to really describe it) away from the light... and then remember waking up at the side of the pool. I actually felt neither pain nor any other sensation. (I found out later that I had been under water for over 10 minutes). I couldn't remember my name or where I lived when asked by the paramedics. I remember saying "I know that is an important question, I just don't remember".

It was almost as if I had expanded my spirit and had to let go of something to "fit back into my body". Sort of like experiencing a forest in autumn full of colorful leaves ..... then showing someone a handful of brown dead leaves and trying to explain to them how beautiful the scene was. I was left with the faded brown memories of what I had experienced.

From that day forward, I have lived my life much more spiritually. I do not fear death, and I most certainly did fear it prior to that time.



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 04:04 AM
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For a number of years, I was close friends with an old lady who lived next door to me, before she died.

One time, she told me about her husband, who had died about 15 years earlier.

Her husband had been bedridden in hospital for a long time, unable to get up or even move significantly.

This particular time when she went to visit him, his face suddenly brightened immensely. He stood up in his bed, and, with his arms outstretched, started walking towards the foot of the bed. He hadn't walked for ages.

When he reached the end of the bed, he collapsed. Dead.

I don't believe that she made this up about her husband.

She has since died. I hope they are together again.




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