A problem I have with God No. 1-Omnipotence

There are just a few things that really lead me to believe that the God to which we most commonly refer is actually a fraud perpetrated by ancient social engineers and mind-manipulators for the purpose of control of the masses through fear, sensationalism, and superstition.

Omnipotence. OK, so God is all-powerful. So why then did it take 6 DAYS to create the Heavens and the Earth? Couldn�t he have just blinked it into existence? It seems to me that there wouldn�t really be any reason to beat around the bush on something like this. I would think that if God wanted something to happen he would just make it happen. Was he pretending NOT to be all-powerful just for 6 days to entertain Himself?

Or could it be that God is not, in fact, all-powerful?

DeltaChaos

who are YOU to question... blah blah. just kidding. that's what an escapist would say. that's a good question, and a valid one that any practicing nonatheist should ask themselves when considering their own faith.

I think your argument for omnipotence with the 6 days thing is self-defeating, however. Nonetheless, I'll use that to my advantage for now. BUT, you make an EXCELLENT point about how religions were used as a control factor for the general population. Wait, did I say 'were used' ? I meant IS STILL USED as such a thing.

The six days thing is made up. Simply, it is that. The writers of the old books were targeting the poor and ignorant when they wrote that stuff, since they would be the best kinds of people to eat that six-day crap up. That's why they beat around the bush, because they know that the village peasants would never be brave enough to question those ideals.

Blinking it into existence is about as valid as the Big bang theory (which I am neutral about). Something as complex and intricate as the Universe just cannot pop up out of nowhere.

The DNA thing, on the other hand, lends some light upon the omnipotence theory. Who or what could have the kind of power to program all life-form's cellular structures with a set of codes, or blueprints, that which all of their organic counterparts were to be built from? Every cell in my body and yours has a set of blueprints derived from the DNA in our chromosomes (I think?) that specifically dictates how to build... say... a lung or how to repair an open wound. I'm not talking about making modifications to those cellular structures. Any genetic engineering scientist can do that, and Ea/Jehova probably did just that circa 12-10k BC. I'm talking about designing that kind of system from the ground-up, and for every single life form at least here on earth.

Furthermore, the God I believe in is the God of the Universe. If there was an entity responsible for the creation of the vast Universe, than that alone validates an ability to be omnipotent. If there was an entity that designed the machines of the Universe, be it stars, nebula, or blackholes, that that is your true God. That is the definition of all-powerful.

As for a god of this planet, I don't believe in that. That's like validating the idea that someone owns this planet, when I take solace in the idea that this planet belongs to no one. It just exists in our marvelous Solar System. For all we know, we could have been just like that planet that was pummelled into the Asteroid Belt.

Thats an interesting thought, Deltachaos. Why did it take six days, and then why did God 'rest' on the seventh (the sabbath) ?

I believe that the 'days' are symbolic of evolution and that it was easier for the relatively unlettered people of the time to conceive time in 'days' rather than 'millions of years'.

Originally posted by Pisky
...and then why did God 'rest' on the seventh (the sabbath) ?

Thank you, Pisky. That was my next point. For what would One who was all-powerful need 'rest'? What, so does that mean he took an 'all-power nap'?

There are so many examples in scripture that attests to the un-all-powerfulness of God, and I'm sure that everyone else will bring them up for discussion as you did. Thanks.

DeltaChaos

[Edited on 22-3-2004 by DeltaChaos]

ah what the hell? did you even read what I said? did nothing I say hold any value to you guys? or was my wording too complex and generally confusing (as usual)

the idea of the symbolism isn't bad conjecture, as anyone who reads a book about Earth knows that life came from a combination of the Sun and the water.

(lemme get my book to describe the cycle for comparison to the six days genesis thing)

Sun formed, then the earth formed. lots of volcanic activity, lava everywhere. chaos all over the place.

Unicellular creatures (algae) apparead in the water.

land plants appeared as the water began to evaporate, giving way to continents. multicellular organisms appeared (e.g. trilobytes)

vertebrates and amphibians appear, and forests started to flourish as a result of the receding water.

marine reptiles appeared, and later did the dinosaurs.

birds appeared, and later did mammals.

[Edited on 3/22/2004 by AlnilamOmega]

Originally posted by AlnilamOmega
Blinking it into existence is about as valid as the Big bang theory (which I am neutral about). Something as complex and intricate as the Universe just cannot pop up out of nowhere.

But why could it not just pop up out of nowhere, when it's Creator, Who is all-powerful, should, by definition be able to do anything in zero time.

Do you believe that God invented the laws which govern the universe (e.g. physics, biology, etc.), only to be bound by them? Or do you believe that those laws existed somehow prior to God's seeming need to create the universe?

DeltaChaos

There are so many problems with god being all powerful

for example:

God not knowing what happened when Cain killed Able. He had to ask where is brother was? Didn't he already know?

God having to be told about the incident in the Garden by an angel. Then when he arrived they were hiding and he didn't know where they were?

Something I find very weird and most X-ians give me the same stupid answer for this.

When reading the Old T it appears that God, Jehova, Yahweh are very physically involved in the general population. He speaks to them, kills people, command others to kill, fights etc................ So what happened to him.......... he seems to have fallen off the face of the earth in the New T. X-ians like to say its because he wasn't needed after JC came. Thats so lame considering they preached a different means of salvations and JC was for the most part calm, not muderous with a few exceptions.

Anyone have any takes on this.

By the way for ease of use try
www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/index.html

Lists many absurdities, violence and stuff most people don't know is in there. Very easy to read and navigate.

So what's your problem? (Worth a -50 for this one liner too.)

misleading title...you should make it clear that it is the God of the Bible that you are having a problem with.

I too have a problem with the God mentioned in the bible and his wierd and strange ways. Besides everything you guys already mentioned. The God in the bible seems also to be very indecisive and cruel.

God is all-poweful from an ancient perspective - comparing sticks and rocks to suns and planets. It is not that he can blink everything into existence. It is not that he is a magical spirit that floats around everywhere touching clay and turning it into life. If he was, 1/3 of the angels would not have turned against him and thought they had a chance. There would be no battle in the heavens because it would be known suicide. I think he is a physical being that one can touch and uses a technology way ahead of our time. He has a spirit that can hear us and guide us. We do know that we didn't evolve from monkeys because of the missing link and many other acheological finds. We can easily come to the conclusion that we were created from 'something' from the 'the heavens'. How powerful he is should not be the focus of our belief. It should be that 1) he created us. 2) he created us for himself. Since we wanted knowledge in the garden of eden, he gave us a choice and left us to our freedom of choice. I speculate that the story of adam and eve is about a time when we made by a creator (maybe two) and we were servants of them - maybe slaves. Then we wanted to know more and choose more - the apple symbol. So God let us go out on our own, He left, and humans decision to separate himself from God made life much harder, but hey - at least we can choose now. Bad choice.



I don't think he created the heavens and the earth in 6 days - at least not measured in earth days - there were no earth days yet.

He did give you life and the freedom to choose weather or not to serv him. To me, that is enough power.

Originally posted by favouriteslave
God not knowing what happened when Cain killed Able. He had to ask where is brother was? Didn't he already know?

God having to be told about the incident in the Garden by an angel. Then when he arrived they were hiding and he didn't know where they were?

These are good themes that I'm going to get into in the third part of this series entitles A problem I have with God #3-Omniscience

Sunday, Sunday, Sunday. Be there, be there, be there! It's AWESOME!!!

DeltaChaos

Originally posted by worldwatcher
misleading title...you should make it clear that it is the God of the Bible that you are having a problem with.

I know what you mean, WW, but there wasn't room for what I wanted to name the post. I had God in quotes for a minute, but quotes don't belong in a title. (I'm a school trained writer...)

DC

This is so funny.
In the ancient writings there is mention of Lucifer/Satan/devil/ancient dragon (whatever name) wanting to put his throne about our Creator's (God's) throne, so wouldn't it follow that Lucifer/Satan/devil/ancient dragon (whatever name) offspring would also have this attitude?
This is just so revealing, it laughable.

Originally posted by FieryIce1
This is so funny.
In the ancient writings there is mention of Lucifer/Satan/devil/ancient dragon (whatever name) wanting to put his throne about our Creator's (God's) throne, so wouldn't it follow that Lucifer/Satan/devil/ancient dragon (whatever name) offspring would also have this attitude?
This is just so revealing, it laughable.

What are you talking about? You're coming in broken, over.

DC

Did anyone read
"The Apocrypha" by John A. De Vito's ??

It has a really interesting take on God and the creation.

Basically, Lucifer and his angels were the good ones and God the bad. God created man stupid as a slave. Lucifer and his brothers wanted man to be open and see they were being manipulated. He wanted them to have the knowledge to see this and gave it to them.

They saw god as egotistical and not worthy of the worship he would get from man for being the almighty creator. They felt as if god was making man like pawns in a game or such. Very cruel indeed.

Originally posted by favouriteslave
Did anyone read "The Apocrypha"...

Haven't yet. It's on my list, though.

Is it all a compilation of the books supposedly left out of the New Testament, or an author's rendition?

DC

OK, so God is all-powerful. So why then did it take 6 DAYS to create the Heavens and the Earth? Couldn�t he have just blinked it into existence? It seems to me that there wouldn�t really be any reason to beat around the bush on something like this. I would think that if God wanted something to happen he would just make it happen. Was he pretending NOT to be all-powerful just for 6 days to entertain Himself?

Or could it be that God is not, in fact, all-powerful?

I am sorry to say this, but what a stupid question!!! how old are you anyway? does the internet make dumber and dumber people each day that passes ?

It was a metaphor, you dummy. Don't take it literally. When the bible was written, those who wrote it needed a way to make people understand that the nature around them was built gradually and not in one blink of an eye...as well as give a good opportunity to say that "God was not satisfied from his creations and therefore he created man."

I have to say it again: what a stupid question!!!

You know what they say,

Ask a stupid question, get an infinitely more stupid answer.

Look, MasterP. I posed this question the way I did because the only knowledge of God that we have is that which is presented to us in the Bible. I know the book is full of metaphors and can't always be taken literally, but that wasn't my question.

My question was... well it obviously doesn't matter. If you didn't see it clearly at the bottom of the post, you won't ever see it.

And how old would you guess that I am?

DeltaChaos

Now boys...if you can't fight nice then take it out in traffic!

The thing is that some people do take the bible literally. How else could we have so may people running around claiming to know the will of god. If it is a only metaphor then how do people know that they are interpreting it correctly...or for that matter, what the hell IS the correct way to interpret it? The value of anything is only that which you want to get out of it.

Does that make any sense? Oh well....10 points!

Originally posted by DeltaChaos

Originally posted by favouriteslave
Did anyone read "The Apocrypha"...

Haven't yet. It's on my list, though.

Is it all a compilation of the books supposedly left out of the New Testament, or an author's rendition?

Youre thinking about a different apocrypha. This is an actual story written by a man recently. An Italian man who returned to his family's house in Italy. During a search they found documents from one of his ancestors who apparently had vision/interview with so-called demons/ fallen angels who told him the real story.

It may be fiction but it really makes you think about why god "needed" to create a man in the first place. Everyone has a motive, what was his?