Is Religion Simply A Security Blanket? INTELLIGENT Discussion With NO FLAMING

-------Continued From Above------

As these Organizations reach farther & squeeze tighter for control, the more people slip out of their grasp. Individualism is a severe threat to the "power structures" & they know that they're beginning to lose it. They've been able to keep they're grip only so long as they could manipulate information against us & they failed when the internet became public. Just look at the internet: No national boundaries, no centralized control, nothing but each individual's self-responsibility to determine the truth or fiction about what we find here. With the internet, we're learning more about each other as individuals & also learning that we don't really need Big Centralized Organizations any more. This is Social Evolution in action! Finally! After being suppressed by TPTB for millennia, we're finally starting to advance as a Human Society!

It's this kind of individualism that the US Constitution upheld & that's why they crushed down on it so hard...And it's the same type of individualism we find on the internet that also threatens their "power structure." The thing is, they can't control the internet & that's why they're scared & trying so hard to over-regulate & censor it. They can't shut it down either because the 'net is too de-centralized & they'd be cutting their owns throats when it comes to passing on "their truth" to each other...Without such easy channels of communication, they'd be out of touch & couldn't maintain any kind of worldwide-scale of control-structures among each other.

Originally posted by Grey Magic
Let people read several books and standpoints and make up their own mind.

As I've already said, I've done this...I think I'm more heavily influence by a "general form" of Christianity than anything else, but that's only because I've had more access to Christian (& even a good chunk of Judaism, from which Christianity originated) literature than any other real, solid source material. I've found that the various Christian Bibles today are all based upon the Dead Sea Scrolls & have done some study of those too (language barriers notwithstanding).

Originally posted by Hot_Wings
Why did God let my parents Die? Why wasn’t I born rich, famous, or more physically attractive? Why did God allow me to be abused or hurt when I was young, innocent, or incapable of defending myself? Why did God take away someone that I loved? Why didn’t God help me? And as Christ said, “My God, My God, Why have you forsaken me?

As you can see, you are not the only one to ask these kinds questions or to feel betrayed or abandoned by God.
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As some of these people who harbor resentment against God get older, their questions turn into anger and frustration, and yet instead of attempting to seek God out for the answers, they demand that God seek them out and answer directly for his supposed inaction regarding their life.

I've even read Ann Rice's novel "Memnoch the Devil," which is a good look at the history of religion...Although she used a good amount of "dramatic license" to keep the story within the overall plotline, I couldn't find any fault at all in the actual history of religion & scripture she incorporated into the story. She put such a unique outlook on religion that it really grabbed my attention. And yet, even though she never directly mentions it in the book, her look at the Devil's viewpoints reminded me of something else I've heard long ago (from the basic tenants in Judaism) that the Devil's greatest sin was that he loves Man more than he loves God.

One of the other major points that Ann Rice wrote about addresses the very same questions you ask here: It's the concept that people have never really stopped believing in God, it's just that we more or less hate Him for allowing all of this to happen! Yet, she also writes that, perhaps it's not the question "Why?" that we need to cope with in order to find Him again, but rather, being able to forgive Him & ourselves for being the cause of the self-inflicted evil we've perpetuated on our fellow Human Beings for so long...Let's face it, we all have to live our lives (& die, physically at least) within the Laws of Nature, but the real evil has been committed by Human Beings. Perhaps it's that ability to forgive all of that & still see/appreciate the beauty that we have in the world is what can bring us a sense of Peace on the individual level.

Originally posted by The_Alarmist2012
I sat on a very high ledge and watched a spectacular sunset not too long ago and pondered my own existence. Thoughts of my life, memories, the world and deep thoughts about these words: "There has to be something more"

Originally posted by Dave Rabbit
When I was stuck on North Padre Island this summer, I use to love walking on the beach during sunset. The waves crashing at my feet, the seagulls.... it's like I was the only person on planet earth. It was a definite comfort level compared to what I was dealing with down there. That, to me, was tranquility. But was it faith?

These are both fine examples of what I meant about seeing/appreciating the beauty in this world, despite everything else that Human Beings have been doing to each other. It's the human capacity to find peace & tranquility in even the worst of times is when I believe we come closest to the Divine.

Originally posted by Hot_Wings
The Greeks and the Romans of antiquity offer the greatest treasure of logic concerning the existence of a higher power. Their belief systems are self generated, which is why they had a God for anything and everything that was considered of or for a higher power. The weather, the elements, the factors of human existence beyond understanding such as love and hatred; each of these had their own God devoted to them by the Greeks and the Romans. However Pagan their religions were, it was their advanced love of logic a reasoning that behooved a firm belief in a higher power. As well, no matter how many Gods the Greeks or Romans created, all of them were subservient or below the pinnacle or ruler of the Gods, Zeus.

St. Thomas Aquinas stated that the existence of God is self evident in most people...

Well, the idea of a Supreme God (in your post, named Zeus) was even incorporated in the 10 Commandments...The very first one: "Thou shalt worship no other god before me."
In this, the Hebrew God openly admits that there are other gods! And even so, if the Hebrew God was indeed the Creator of All, then He cerrtainly does not need our worship to continue existing...After all, how long was He around even before Human Beings existed, huh? So, in essence, He was merely saying that if you're going to worship any god at all, He wants you to direct it to Himself instead of any of the others.

But also, you're comments about how the Romans & Greeks used logic & reason in their religions are also true with (at least one of) the USA Founding Forefathers, Thomas Jefferson: "Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear." In this, I see that, since God gave us the ability to reason, then to not use it would be an insult to Him.
And also: "I am an Epicurean. I consider the genuine (not the imputed) doctrines of Epicurus as containing everything rational in moral philosophy which Greek and Roman leave to us."

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
...I believe that all religious people are spiritual, but not all spiritual people are religious. I am the latter. To me spirituality is a personal journey that I am on alone. No rules, no dogma, no commandments, just a search for a higher truth.

But couldn't it be said that your search for the higher truth is a religion in itself? An individual religious quest to be sure...But there are also many "religions" in the world that focus on individual spiritualism.

Originally posted by Dave Rabbit
This is a Serious Topic for me. That is why I want folks to forget my nature as a comedian on any and all things.

I can't fault you for "stepping out of character" on this...The way I see it is similar to something said by Roger Rabbit in that movie: "Anyone who doesn't have a sense of humor is better off dead."
TBH, I figure if the day should come when I may completely lose my own sense of humor, then God have pity on whomever I come into contact with...A good sense of humor is a "coping mechanism" that has allowed me to see "outside the box" on a lot of things...The way things are going in the USA today, there's a helluva lot of things that we have to cope with.

Originally posted by PhilltFred
So I have developed the idea that religion of all types, are first and foremost a method of governance, and secondly a method of imposing restrictions on the behavior of people, usually based on a common sense context of love and friendship, but in so many instances there is hatred and violence.

I agree with your assessment that Organized Religion is just a form of "government." Religion should be a personal, individual thing, not grown into any kind of Organized Monstrosity...Every time that happens, that's when the trouble begins. In my studies of history, I've learned that Organized Religion was really the first form of government, as I described in this thread back in 2003.

--------------Continued Below----------

----------Concluded From Above------------

Originally posted by dunwichwitch
If any religion was completely or even mostly true, there would be no need for it to exist, because the truth would be self evident.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

Gee, the Preamble to the Declaration of Independence sounds just like a large Organized Religion, doesn't it?
Religions have risen & fallen, just the same as governments...When they do not adhere to the core-tenants as quoted here, they plant their own seeds of self-destruction. The primary core-tenant I speak of is that the individual can live their own lives as they see fit as long as they don't impose their own viewpoints on other people. This is the same mistake that both governments & Organized Religions keep repeating down throughout history.

Originally posted by The_Alarmist2012
Does anyone, even the atheists really want to believe that there is NOTHING after death for an eternity?

Yeah, it's kind of sad to think of an atheist lying in his/her coffin at the funeral...All dressed up & nowhere to go...
But I will still respect that atheist for living their own life, by their own choice because it's not up to me to decide how someone else thinks & lives. After all, even an atheist is still a brother/sister in the Human Species.

Originally posted by The_Alarmist2012
Ever heard the words "Fear of God"?

I can't say I've ever thought of God in that way...Because that's the what Organized Religion teaches. I always thought of God as a teacher...A Bringer of Understanding & Wisdom, if I can only contemplate & appreciate what it is that we have been given through the Laws of Nature.

Originally posted by Heike
The hope or belief that something more powerful than us is in control, and that something can be appealed to or influenced in some way, is more comfortable for humans than believing that there is nothing in control; all the world including ourselves and our lives are subject to chaos and random chance, and there is nothing we can do about it.

From my studies in history, I've come to the conclusion that this very aspect of Human Nature is why Individual Faith gets turned into Organized Religion (& the same reason why the US Founding Forefathers thought of governments as being a "necessary evil" to keep Individual People from trampling on each others' Rights). It's the uncertainty inherent in day-to-day living that can drive people together to form some form of Order over the Chaos.

Yet, when Iowa had the severe flooding this year, lots of people actually volunteered their own labors to help each other. It didn't require any "organization" to force people to help each other. This is the problem with Organized Religions & Governments: Both organizations apply force to make people "accept" the services that they offer, instead of volunteering those services. As the example of Iowa being flooded, people don't really need to be forced to help each other...The better parts of Human Nature is being willing to help of our own free will, while such Organizations will force their "help" onto people who may not need or want it.

Even in ancient Egypt, Pharoah's primary duty was to keep Order in Egypt (by interceding with & placating the numerous gods) & provide for military might to keep Chaos outside of Egypt. This "organized religion" worked quite well for a long time...Egypt was able to keep their indigenous culture intact for longer than any other nation on Earth: It lasted from the Unification all the way up until the Romans took over...Even the Greek Ptolomy rulers adopted the Egyptian culture for themselves! Not even the Chinese can boast as long of a time (of keeping an intact indigenous culture) for another 2000 years or so!

Originally posted by Heike
The human concept of God imposes order on our sometimes chaotic world and gives us a belief that we can influence things which are out of our control as well as "reasons" (i.e., orderly causes) for the bad things that sometimes happen to good people.

It's precisely for this reason that I nearly lost my own Faith just last month. My wife started choking on some food & I tried the Heimlich Maneuver to dislodge it...Failing miserably. I know from fact that it is not a guarantee to work, even when done properly, but I still felt helpless waiting for paramedics after I called 911. She was without a heartbeat for about 10 minutes, it was estimated, but they were able to successfully remove the blockage & get her heart (& partial breathing) going again.

I was right there in the Emergency Room after they got her stabilized: She did regain consciousness for about 10-15 seconds, during which time I tried to calm her & comfort her...The look of sheer terror in her eyes is a memory forever burned into my mind, but her expression did relax & seemed to calm down somewhat during the first 5 seconds, before she passed out again.

Then the brain swelling started kicking in & she never regained consciousness, for the next 2 days until she died from the resulting brain damage.

Over the next few weeks, my complete helplessness over the whole random/accidental tragedy is what nearly made me lose my Faith. Then I started to remember that Chaos is indeed a part of the Order in the Laws of Nature. Also that a mortal life must also eventually pass for all of us, regardless of what we do to stave off such accidents. So, I never actually said "goodbye" before she actually passed on, but instead said that "I will see you again," because I know (from the spiritual side of human existence) that I will see her again, someday, when my own time comes. I miss her terribly now & will for the rest of my life, but by the Laws of Nature I do realize that even death has a purpose in life. The Laws of Nature demand a continuous cycle, an exchange of matter & energy then back again & it's this very Nature that also cycles Order & Chaos.

I may never figure out the "why" of her passing, but I know that we all must live within this cycle of Nature & the best we can do is to do our best to leave the world a little better while we're still here. My regret is that my "best" was only sufficient to help provide her with some small measure of comfort during those few seconds when she needed it the most.

I think that religion was intended to be the operating software for human civilization. More "scientific" non-diety based operating frameworks have also been produced, but they don't ever last more than a generation before they are destroyed. Priests are an older version of software geeks who transcribe/write code.

So, as an answer to the question, Is religion simply a security blanket? No, it's really there, running in the background not taking up much memory, but, if it is removed from the hard drive a major system crash is inevitable, as history appears to show. But I suppose that's just fear mongering.

I personally don't have an opinion regarding religion. On one hand it has been verifyably proven to be far more effective than non-diety based operating systems for running human civilizations and on the other hand there are many who resent the notion of an ubiquitous diety, a design feature of many religions, and/or a Priesthood that abuses its power.

The world civilization is as large as it is because of religion not despite it.

Originally posted by MidnightDStroyer
-------Continued From Above------

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
...I believe that all religious people are spiritual, but not all spiritual people are religious. I am the latter. To me spirituality is a personal journey that I am on alone. No rules, no dogma, no commandments, just a search for a higher truth.

But couldn't it be said that your search for the higher truth is a religion in itself? An individual religious quest to be sure...But there are also many "religions" in the world that focus on individual spiritualism.

I guess I should clarify my definition of religion. To me, religion is a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion. In that context, I stand by my words.

I've also seen other posters say that following a specific religion makes it harder, not easier. I would have to disagree. It is much harder for me to stay on my journey without others to push me along. The only one to keep me going is me. The only one to tell me to keep studying and contemplating the subject is me. It is all to easy to put it off and concentrate on something else more mundane and earthly. When I was a part of a religion, it was much easier. At least one hour a week I was 'educated' in what faith was supposed to be. Now, I have to decide to do it, not because it's expected, but because I want to.

1. Are people religious because they really believe?
I'll speak only for myself. I don't consider myself "religious" but I do consider myself a Christian. I not only believe, I have a relationship with the Lord. I try to live my life by faith and through my faith, I grow closer to God.

2. Do they simply go through the motions because they are too afraid of the consequences .... just in case there is a Heaven or Hell?

No, I have no fear of hell because I know 100% without a doubt that I am saved by the grace of God.

3. Is it simply a security blanket because they want to believe that there is something better after they die and would be miserable if they didn’t believe there was something at the end of the religious rainbow?


My relationship with Christ is not a security blanket that just makes me feel better about the quakes in this world, it is more like a parachute that I fully trust. This life is like jumping out of an airplane and those that trust in Christ can know without a doubt that no matter what happens in this life, Christ, their "parachute" will save them. No fear. He casts out all doubt and all fear. Fear does not come from God.

reply to post by Dave Rabbit


1. Are people religious because they really believe?

Some really do believe because they've never heard of another theory of their existence. If there were no humans, there would be no God, there would be no "Earth", there would be no "Above Top Secret".

2. Do they simply go through the motions because they are too afraid of the consequences .... just in case there is a Heaven or Hell?

I have a Catholic aunt who is very devout, but I think she is using religion as an excuse to her failures to become educated and a good mother. I know that she doesn't really believe a bit of what she says everyday, but she has nothing else to do, no job, except being a missionary.

3. Is it simply a security blanket because they want to believe that there is something better after they die and would be miserable if they didn’t believe there was something at the end of the religious rainbow?

Yeh, refering to what I said above, I guess it explains this a bit. In addition, I never feel like I needed a religion of any sort. I'm not an Atheist because "Atheism" sounds like a religion. Atheism in my opinion acknowledges the existence of a God because if there was no god, the there would have never been an Atheism.

My daughter likes her buddhist class and as a result sometimes asks me questions because the christian kids tease her for not accpeting jesus as her only lord and saviour .You know ,stuff like that .

I just tell her that Jesus was a buddhist . he taught the same things and got crucified because he told the people that their relationship with god was a personal affair and nothing to do with the church. Then I quote Jesus;\

Be ye not like the hypocrites who make a show of preaching in the synagogues ...
Enter the closet (private home) and pray to your father in secret..

Paraphrased I know but thats the jist of it .

As an institution ,the catholic church disgusts me YET at the coal face some of the nicest people I have ever met are catholics .

So in the end I dont care what religion people profess , its how they treat others that I judge them .

Religion is illogical programing and because its illogical it creates in people a crippling inability to make their own judgments about whats right and wrong . How quickly fundamentalists condemn others to hell for not buying in to their bogus fear based dogma .

Like Jesus said 'begone ,I never knew you '. The tale of the good samaritan is lost on fundamentalists .

But its the brutalising of childrens minds before they have a chance to grow as individuals that I find so upsetting . The churches Know that if they get them brain washed while they are young and vulnerable they will have an insecure fearfull pawn they can use.

Religion is nothing to do with GOD or LOVE . Its about power and control .
And because these institutions are tax exempt they are the perfect tool for money laundering vast sums and thus have disproportianate political influence through 'voluntary contributions' to 'worthy causes'.

Bush is the result and look at the Hell he has reduced America to. A police state in all but name .

1. Are people religious because they really believe?

People are religious because they are superstitious. Religion is made by man and is man's attempt to impress God with good works as did Cain when he offered up his own works from his own hands rather than the lamb which was both innocent and spoke of forgiveness by blood sacrifice that was to show the promise of deliverance through Christ as God promised Eve when she fell. Religion is worthless to God except when it is directed to feed the widows and fatherless which is acceptable to God. It is vanity, pride, and self works for one to boast in.

2. Do they simply go through the motions because they are too afraid of the consequences .... just in case there is a Heaven or Hell?

Religion has no influence as it relates to heaven or hell. Yes, people put trust in religon that it will keep them from hell for a few good works and some penance. But that is the lie of religion as it fools everyone into thinking they could buy forgiveness and do as they please. What keeos you from hell is faith and trust in Christ alone, and I mean in the offering of himself on the cross so we could be forgiven. If we believe what He did was true and we accept it and ask Him to forgive us, we shall never see hell. If we reject Him (Christ) we shall surely go there by our own words alone. Jesus Christ is God's attempt to reach man whereas religion is man's attempt to reach God. God is only interested in what you do with His Son whom He gave up on the cross for you. How you respond to his free offer for forgiveness will be the factor of where you spend your time.


3. Is it simply a security blanket because they want to believe that there is something better after they die and would be miserable if they didn’t believe there was something at the end of the religious rainbow?

For most, it probably is a security blanket, but it is a bad one. "Cursed is the man who trusts in a man.." the Bible says. I do have a security blanket. It is called the blood of Christ shed at Calvary for me. I have confidence that I shall be with Him one day as I accept what He did for me and what it meant for Him to do it to make me free. I shall be transformed one day and never die, that is the promise given to me in God's written word. One day this world will end in fire and be dissolved. Everything that is of this world will die with it. Jesus said, " That which is spirit is spirit and that which is flesh is flesh.. Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God.. you must be born again.." That is, you must be reborn by the Spirit of God to live forever. So I do have a security blanket. His name is Jesus Christ the Lord of all.

Religion - Man's attempt to reach God.

Jesus Christ - God's attempt to reach man.


Be careful where you put your trust.


BTW I attend church every Sunday. Now for works, nor for penance. Not for boasting or pride. I go to be with others who believe in Christ and trust in Him so that I may join them in worship and thanksgiving for my salvation through Him. That is all.

My ex-wife is a Mormon(LDS).

We got divorced over a few issues the main one being she wanted our two boys in the church...i didnt agree.
I met her in a biker bar where i was working as the barman...we fell in love yada yada.
I had no clue she was religious...i knew her parents were Mormon but she would drink alcohol and smoke go to parties with me all the good stuff,until we had our first son.

Things got a bit weird from then on she started preaching to me about sin a lot.
Then her parents turned against me..started telling her i was no good for her.
Our second boy came along.
5 years later of putting up with religious mind games almost had me beat.
Then she dropped a bombshell..she was going back to church and the boys were going with her whether i liked it or not and she wanted a divorce.

She still drinks and smokes to this day.

So my opinion of religion was solidified from then on.(I dont like religion)

Anyway with my Ex i think it was more of a family pressure thing..her personality didnt seem to need religion but she was made to think she needed it.

Edit:I also tried to reason with her i wanted her to let me teach my boys about ALL religions and let them make there own choice......Didnt work.

[edit on 21-9-2008 by SvenTheBerserK]

I believe that the majority of the faithful are religious adherents due to a sense of comfort or pleasure provided by their particular belief system. I assume that there also exists a minority of adherents who are faithful due purely to the belief that what their religion teaches is honest and factual. Of course, most believers share both motives, but it generally leans more one way or the other.

Having spent my childhood in East Texas, surrounded by a culture of particularly fervent Christian faith, I have suspicions that there is a biological basis of the individual penchant for belief or disbelief. All of my family members and most of my friends consider themselves believers. Through our numerous conversations, it seems likely that the basic thought processes of believers and nonbelievers are inherently different. I find it truly impossible to believe in the theistic ideas presented to me, while my religious friends find it impossible to accept the atheistic position. It really is as if our brains just cannot accept one another's ideas, no matter how hard we may try.

I do believe that for some, faith is a security blanket of sorts, providing comfort that atheism does not provide. For many people, this comfort is necessary and they cannot imagine finding wholeness in atheism. I have never found atheism to be emotionally troublesome; indeed I am a generally happy person. I suspect that those who find it difficult to contentedly maintain atheism are simply more inclined toward theistic faith, without which they are bound to suffer psychological stress. The reverse can be said for those who are unhappy in theism.

[edit on 21/9/08 by paperplanes]

First of all, I'm not posting this to debate with anybody. The OP has asked for our points of view. That is what I will provide here. Nothing more, nothing less.

I have personally seen evidence of the supernatural. But even if I did not, I would not be so closed minded as to assume that everybody who has ever claimed to have seen ghosts or anything else that is paranormal is lying or delusional.

To believe in God is to believe in something that is supernatural. Is it really that much of a stretch to say that to believe in the supernatural is also to believe in God? That is just one of many reasons why I believe in God, not just in principle, but absolutely, without question. Some of the doctrinal portions of my beliefs may very well be up for debate, but whether or not God exists is pretty much a case closed deal for me.

Therefore, I am religious because I absolutely believe. "Just in case there is a Heaven or Hell" has nothing to do with it. Heaven or Hell may or may not be exactly as I believe them be. But evidence of the supernatural reality does indicate that there is an afterlife of some kind. My faith is NOT based on "Pascal's Wager" in any way, shape, or form.

Lastly, anybody who says that religion is a security blanket has just made the most ignorant statement that a person can make. That may be the case for some religious people but not all of them. I am very secure in who I am as a person and I would continue to be so even if there was no such thing as God or the afterlife. I have no need of a security blanket or any other form of silliness that most of today's pop spirituality tries to offer. I live my life exactly as I see fit, based on what I know to be right and true. That is all that matters. There are plenty of other religious people who feel the exact same way. No security blanket needed.

Nonreligious people are certainly entitled to their opinions. However, I would advise rethinking the ignorant assumption that all religious people cling to their beliefs for a security blanket. Or because they are afraid of going to Hell for that matter.

That is all. Enjoy the rest of your discussion.

I certainly wouldn't want to live in a world devoid of religion, because if "what you see is what you get" and death is unquestionably the end, why not simply indulge your most twisted desires? Sure, the chances are high that you would be struck down, but could not a truly vile person say they enjoyed it while it lasted?

I don't particularly like religious doctrine, and out of date religious laws.

I like to think of myself as spiritual, and I do look to the good I can find in religious texts, the philosophy and teachings, not only biblical.

I must say I was once a devout Christian, I wanted to be a missionary, to do this I felt I must have truth, so I began a long search, still searching.

I lost almost all faith, that was the dark night of the soul, Losing faith was the worse thing that ever happened to me.

Slowly I am coming around to find peace within my soul that a loving creator will appreciate my quest.

Yes there is a peace and security in faith hope and belief that a loving god is watching over me, many mock now days, since science and technology make belief look outdated.

Yes the make up of the holy spirit is comfort, the comforter.

Experiencing the supernatural.

There is a lot to say for experiences, are we programed to feel this need for a god?

Does it all boil down to ancestor worship,

The Divine Mother,

The divine father.

who knows

When in times of deep sorrow and trial and tribulation, what a gift it is to be able to enter into this zone of safety inside oneself, for the kingdom of heaven is within,

Many times only total focus and surrender laying all my burdens on God saw me through, totally relying on gods strength.

Then there is the supernatural,

Spirituality is a personal journey.

We are a living breathing spiritual beings, How can one deny the wonders of the universe, I think the most profound spiritual awakening I ever had was when I really felt the earth beneath my feet, and the universe that surrounded me.

[edit on 093030p://bSunday2008 by Stormdancer777]

I've started and deleted a post in this thread a half dozen times, now. And I'm probably going to regret it, but this one stays.

I'm not 100% sure of anything. And anyone who claims to be 100% sure of anything scares me, just a little bit. But of all the things I'm highly confident of, my belief in God in general and Christianity in particular is way up there.

And I could write a book (which no one would ever read) about how I got there and why I'm so sure, but let me just clarify this; when I say Christianity, this is what I mean and I believe I can support it scripturally:

1) God wills that ALL be saved
2) God's will WILL be done
3) God is love
4) Love never fails

And there you have it in 4 little lines. The crux of the New Testament. I can't convince anyone else of it and have no desire (or need) to. You can no more avoid the inevitable will of God than you can avoid dying. But that's ok, because it's all good news.

And it's a long personal journey that's gotten me to where I am on this subject. But I'm as sure as I can be that we're all ultimately destined for the same fate [other than some very few, extremely rare exceptions which will only cloud the issue to address]. Now granted, the process will be much more ...uh... rigorous for some than others. But the best you can do is the best thing you can do. And you could do a whole lot worse than living your life according to the classic, "All I Really Need to Know I Learned in Kindergarten".

reply to post by yeahright


Yes Love,


Love how simple a commandment, yet unconditional love almost impossible to achieve, this is what it all boils down to, love one-another.

What a lovely forum this would be if we put away all our political /religious /national bias, and actually tried to understand one-another.

What a wonderful gift to give the world, I wonder what we could actually accomplish.

Looking back at religion, it is just man trying to fill in the blanks.

[edit on 093030p://bSunday2008 by Stormdancer777]

Religion is just a belief. We are all entitled to our beliefs and that is what makes religion neutral.

Those who use religion as a shield to face the fear of death...no man is fearless on this earth, and we have all used our own shields to face things we do not wish.

To force or take another mans shield is not your right.

Originally posted by yeahright

I've started and deleted a post in this thread a half dozen times, now. And I'm probably going to regret it, but this one stays.

I'm not 100% sure of anything. And anyone who claims to be 100% sure of anything scares me, just a little bit. But of all the things I'm highly confident of, my belief in God in general and Christianity in particular is way up there.

And I could write a book (which no one would ever read) about how I got there and why I'm so sure, but let me just clarify this; when I say Christianity, this is what I mean and I believe I can support it scripturally:

1) God wills that ALL be saved
2) God's will WILL be done
3) God is love
4) Love never fails

And there you have it in 4 little lines. The crux of the New Testament. I can't convince anyone else of it and have no desire (or need) to. You can no more avoid the inevitable will of God than you can avoid dying. But that's ok, because it's all good news.

And it's a long personal journey that's gotten me to where I am on this subject. But I'm as sure as I can be that we're all ultimately destined for the same fate [other than some very few, extremely rare exceptions which will only cloud the issue to address]. Now granted, the process will be much more ...uh... rigorous for some than others. But the best you can do is the best thing you can do. And you could do a whole lot worse than living your life according to the classic, "All I Really Need to Know I Learned in Kindergarten".

One question...do you believe all other religions but your own are wrong?

basically i have a strong opinion that RELIGION is an option for Strength in one's belief system. read that again.

this option for a sturdy foundation for one's self held beliefs/ability's / opinions in our lives, can be quite empowering and good for success in a number of things.......this belief can give someone the "confidence" to be in "resourceful states" for a number of activities

it is also hard to let go of due to the propoganda and fear behind it........but i would also like to add especially to those who "scoff" at "faith" which is a foundation of some religions..........is that most "non religious" people use something very similiar to the word faith (i.e to believe) in there lives ......i.e a stern self held belief in something (wether they realize it or not)


see in life ............*some things* (wether we realize it or not) don't have to be true to seem real to us........we just need to believe they are....... in other words (faith) so long as we believe something about ourselves (this can appear to be ....in our lives) that is we have faith in our beliefs about something.....and this faith makes them real to us.............but
most hold self limiting beliefs about our selves regarding some things .......due to many factors (experiences .....what people told us...) i am not saying a person can believe they can fly and they will LOL but regarding limiting or resourceful /empowering beliefs about ouselves that we hold.... some people may be scared at first when realizing we CAN have alot of creative power in our lives. Basically regarding self held beliefs almost anything is possible.......or can be impossible depending on what type of limits we place on our selves. this can seem like a mind F*C( to those that understand this.



I find using positive intentions when creating goals in life is by far the best choice (so long as you can rationalize they are positive intentions to yourself lol) i think this can help people that come to the understanding that i described in the last paragraph deal with what otherwise could manifest into a greed........as well as that i find that "thought energy" backed by good intentions / the" heart" seems to have the most powerful creation force in "our 3'd plane/ world" when backed up by a determind will . I think in this day and age it is very imporatant for people to slow things down in there mind .........and invest a bit of time in themselves ......in a relaxed mind set......and just brainstorm to see what they may want ......because i think some people may be surprised that it is different than what they are trying to chase after when they are in a busy/ stressed out frame of mind

p.s

this is why trying to convince a religious person that something about there beliefs is "wrong" is pointless. I mean a NORMAL function of any human's mind is to protect themselves. Belief systems create COMFORT ZONES.....you can't force someone out of it.......you may be able to trick them.......but why would anyone want to do that to someone? Most people will just ignore anything that they see as a threat to there current safety blanket of beliefs at least until they are ready to have another belief they have decided they can handle. but when it comes to religion which is a "nest" which houses the strength of many opinions/ beliefs you will be more than hardpressed to "change someone" . it is a protection mechansim. Also during times of stress many people look for something to protect them, a popular option for strength is relgion (i.e someone down and out found "god".) to them it's real and that is ALL that matters(and this should be respected)


[edit on 21-9-2008 by cpdaman]

reply to post by FritosBBQTwist


Well, I'm not intimately familiar with all religions. I personally believe that there are a good many professing Christians that have completely misinterpreted the Bible, and therefore do way more harm to Christianity than an army of atheists. But I don't dwell on it because in the grand scheme of things I don't think it matters one whit. The only thing that does matter is how we treat each other while we're here. Or at least it's far and away the biggest thing that matters.

Any religion that supports not doing willful harm to each other has some value. If it supports actually helping one another, even better. And you have to differentiate between "religion" and the individuals espousing their own view of a "religion". Like me.

religeon isnt as black and white as people may believe, Dave you had some bad experiences with the church as an institution and in many ways i can empathize with feeling that negativity but turning your back on God just because of the inadequecies and stupidity of the institution isnt good.

i am also roman catholic and lets face it the catholic faith hasnt always been a force of good no matter how much the representatives of the faith shouted from their soap box you have the crusades, the inquisition, corruption etc and im 99% sure that the ministry we have today isnt what Jesus wanted.

in all honesty im half convinced the vatican has been subverted and no longer hears the word of God, so i turned my back on the institution and every thing it stands for but i maintain my faith that there is a God and he loves us all very much, why?

because when i look at the planet and the universe everything is just too perfect for it to have all occured randomly and although i suspect eveloution played some small role in what we see today i think there was an intelligence driving it from the begining.

all religeons get so caught up in the "Im right, your wrong" dogma but the thing is its not about being right or wrong, its not about the bible or the koran its not about the messenger/prophet its about the MESSAGE what is God realy trying to say to us?

i see around here there are those anti-religeonists and they can cherry pick the bible or other religeous text and say well science has proven this to be inaccurate therefore the whole bible is inaccurate but genisis etc isnt the message, revelations isnt a message (a warning perhapse but not THE message), exodus isnt the message the message is so simple so pure that those whos hearts and souls are filled with anger and hate (and usually always deny these feelings even to themselves) who try so hard to bring everyone else down to their level cant see the message they cant see the tree because they are to busy hating the forest.

The message is treat everyone as you would have them treat you, be good to your fellow man this is what the bible is trying to tell us and thats all nothing more and if you do this then you carry out the work of God wether you realise it or not.

If we follow this message revelations will never come to pass, there will be no apocalypse or armmegedon mankind will bring about its own destruction through selfishness, greed, pride, sloth, wrath and that is the only consequence for negative actions.

so in conclusion i believe there is a God, i dont think hes what any of the religeons make him out to be usually the religeon reflects the biases and prejudices of the culture it was formed in and nothing more than an interpretation with all the limitations of the prophet, but what religeon is, is a person acknowleding yes there is a higher being, yes he is responsible for my existance all we do is chose which religeon we feel most comfortable with expressing that acknowledgment.