Originally posted by Sublime620
My Opinion on Religion:

I have none.

While I don't really have any faith at all, and cannot even comprehend it, there are far too many geniuses who had faith. Einstein, for example, understood far more about the universe than I ever will, and he still had faith.

So, more than being critical of religion, I am jealous. However, I do wish those with faith would use it towards good more than they do. So many use religion and faith as a means of hatred instead of peace.

Have to say, I've been watching from the sidelines for a few days, and am very impressed by the cogent and thoughtful remarks from 'cancerian42' and 'rikk7111'.

They were both heartfelt and well-said. If only I could express myself as eloquently....

Discussing religion is almost like touching the 'third rail' because of the emotional responses it can create!

Now....Sorry if this is a repeat of earlier ideas, but I think it is fairly obvious that there is a big difference between 'faith' and 'religion'. Both "ideas" tend towards their own degree of 'certainty' about things....but, people have been known to 'change' religions, through a personal choice, for personal reasons. Seems to me that if they had some sort of 'faith' in the first place, then changing their 'religion' was simply to re-align with others who share their particular views. (Maybe why certain groups of like minds are referred to as "flocks")?

I may not be expressing it well, so I'll try to clarify: That which we do not understand, we may fear. With understanding comes comfort. In the absence of scientific understanding, as in ages ago (and even today, alas..) religion tended to use people's faith, to offer solace.

Of course, I'm not just focusing on Christianity! Humanity didn't spring up out of the ground some 2,000 years ago....our species has created many religions since the rise to sentience, perhaps 10,000 to 20,000 years ago. Some of these 'beliefs' faded away, some persisted. We even, to this day, refer to the Greek's visions of 'gods'....every day in the week is named after one of them.

An attempt to summarize: Before science, thunder and lightning would be, understandably, terrifying to early peoples. How else to explain the phenomenon? Same with the Sun disappearing, then re-appearing every day, but for different peoples at different latitudes (which they had no knowledge of, nor communications between them) sometimes the Sun was inconsistent. BUT, then again, it did show a pattern, as years of observations would reveal (the beginnings of a scientific approach to understanding our environment)....

My point, in a non-technogical World, and (by inference), non-scientific;

...widely separated 'clans' and 'cultures' of Humans would imagine and create their own 'world-views' in order to try to make sense of what they observed. In my opinion, this is a factor that helps to explain the 'genesis' of religious beliefs in Humans.

So, yes....that aspect COULD be seen as a 'security blanket' if you wish to use that analogy.

EDIT...second EDIT to correct first edit...first edit was for spell and content. Second to save space in post!!!
[edit on 10/28/0808 by weedwhacker]

[edit on 10/28/0808 by weedwhacker]

I used a blanket before the terror attack on 9/11/01.
How much of a security blanket do you need.
Everyone knew a terror attack was eminent.
Peace in the Middle East was the word.
Osama said we would be under attack.
Connie Rice the National Security Adviser to President Bush
said there was nothing on Osama coming in on the security wire.
People on the net were asking what would happen.
I though we had everything well in hand.
So as part of religious practice for security blankets I prayed
we would not have a terrorist attack.
But we got one any way.
Osama said the attack would use our own devices against us.
Gee I still can't figure out what happened.

1. Are people religious because they really believe?

I think there are some people who genuinely believe in thier faith, some who are religious because that is what they are brought into and what they know, and some that are doubtful but it is easier/safer to be part of a flock.


2. Do they simply go through the motions because they are too afraid of the consequences .... just in case there is a Heaven or Hell?

No. I think some believe and do not question. Those that question may be doubtful but as you say go througfh the motions 'just in case'. For some, even if they do not believe and will have questioned their faith but do not havr the luxury to with draw from their religion.


3. Is it simply a security blanket because they want to believe that there is something better after they die and would be miserable if they didn’t believe there was something at the end of the religious rainbow?

I believe is partly a security blanket, for 2 reasons. Firstly as you say, hope and belief in something better after death gives alot of people just the will to live, let alone just get by the mundane problems we encounter in day to day life. This said, I myself also believe that something or someone created everything and have a strong urge to try to discover thr truth. I don’t believe the relgious stuff either. Have always felt that way and churchs make me feel cold and uncomfortable. Does that make me Agnostic too?? The second reason it is a scurity blanket is to comfort us from our fears. If the fears didn't exist would there be a need for the security blanket?

To me religion is a weapon of control. When i firt read your thread title - an image from Orsen Well's 'Animal farm' came to me. I think it was the sheep. The book/film wasn't about relgion it was propaganda but i think it shared a few of the same issues - well in my eyes anyway.

I think religion was a scientific and social experiment which is still on going.




[edit on 8-11-2008 by MCoG1980]

Dave,
I guess I was lucky. I grew up in 3 or 4 different churches Baptist, Methodist and a touch of Catholic because my mother played piano for different churches. I didn't see any of the snakes/ speaking in tongues/ ruler wielding nuns/ paying cash for forgiveness part. I did see many degrees of dedication to religion and can say that I really wasn't interested in the idea that I was an evil sinner and had suffer all of my life to fight for my immortal soul nor the just be nice and you'll go to heaven side.
I was really interested in what where and why.

As I've gotten older I've drifted away from regular church attendance but I still hold the core beliefs that my faith came from. The more I learn about science and religion, the more I think they actually support one another. The problem is that most people are trying to prove that they are not because they want to be the only side that is right. I think read and talk to people about this and can honestly say that the extremes are probably the furthest from the truth or at least they've gone overboard with some of the details.
There is an important part of me that is based on the belief that there is a god and more to this life than just being an animal who can entertain myself, shop for food and dress for the weather. .
I cant imagine going through a life feeling like I am the end all be all of existence because there is no god, or meaning beyond the obituary page.

Originally posted by Bombeni

It's not about God rejecting people, it's about people rejecting God. Big difference.

Its about people rejecting your 'idea' and 'opinion' about god-another big difference.

Here's a thought....

How many 'religions' currently exist, today??

I won't even attempt to answer my own question, I throw it out for contemplation....

My opinion is, I see this as an issue of a 'Spiritual Journey' for every Human Being who is capable of comprending these notions.

If I may: My personal opinion (sorry if I offend) is that the very CONCEPT of an 'organized religion' is a form of 'socialism'....not that that's bad, in and of itself...working together to better society is a GOOD thing...as long as the Playing Field is always level.

Problem crops up, due to our nature as 'naked apes'....is that our 'tribal' nature, from our early evolutionary roots, is too easily activated, below our veneer of 'civilization' that we tout.

Homo Sapiens Sapiens (Humans) tend to, (so far) predominate this Planet.

Until we begin to learn a lesson from species who have come before us, but who never acheived acuity skills, (the dinosaurs, for instance), we would be well-served to learn from the past, and aspire to grow BEYOND what we selvishly try to achieve, right now....

Originally posted by Dave Rabbit

1. Are people religious because they really believe?

In some cases yes. Try growing up with the families who attend Westboro Baptist Church and observe your brain turning into a pretzel from indoctrination.

2. Do they simply go through the motions because they are too afraid of the consequences .... just in case there is a Heaven or Hell?

Ah yes, the classic example of Pascal's Wager. He suggested it is better to believe in God because the consequences of being wrong are far better than not believing. If you believe in him and he exists, you go to heaven. If you believe in him and he doesn't exist, no biggie, you'll just be in a state of non-existence in the sea of tranquility.

However, what he didn't consider is that there is more than one religion in this convoluted world. Many of these other religions say you cannot worship false idols or you will be punished. So my question is, what if you believe in the Christian God and he turns out NOT to be the true God? What will Odin or Zeus or Allah do to you for believing in these falsehoods?

Odin will surely drag you to Hel where you will live off goat urine. Allah most definitely will send you to Jahannam until Qiyamah (Judgment Day). Zeus will send you to Tartaros within Hades where you will suffer torment in a dungeon.

So the real question is : when does this all break down to a bunch of nonsense that is meant to scare you into being a submissive slave?

3. Is it simply a security blanket because they want to believe that there is something better after they die and would be miserable if they didn’t believe there was something at the end of the religious rainbow?

I think this is part of it. The idea of non-existence if incomprehensible to a human being, besides our tiny, fading recollection of pre-existence. But I do feel that people shouldn't abandon their reason & logic when dealing with the real world. There are ways to cope with existence without bringing Bronze Age beliefs into the mix. I think religion is so successful because it's mainly about conditioning the mind, or in this case - programming the mind.

Do they simply go through the motions because they are too afraid of the consequences .... just in case there is a Heaven or Hell?

Ah yes, the classic example of Pascal's Wager. He suggested it is better to believe in God because the consequences of being wrong are far better than not believing. If you believe in him and he exists, you go to heaven. If you believe in him and he doesn't exist, no biggie, you'll just be in a state of non-existence in the sea of tranquility.

However, what he didn't consider is that there is more than one religion in this convoluted world. Many of these other religions say you cannot worship false idols or you will be punished. So my question is, what if you believe in the Christian God and he turns out NOT to be the true God? What will Odin or Zeus or Allah do to you for believing in these falsehoods?

Odin will surely drag you to Hel where you will live off goat urine. Allah most definitely will send you to Jahannam until Qiyamah (Judgment Day). Zeus will send you to Tartaros within Hades where you will suffer torment in a dungeon.

So the real question is : when does this all break down to a bunch of nonsense that is meant to scare you into being a submissive slave?

A most excellent observation

Pascals wager is obviously loaded and agenda driven as it boldly presupposes that theres only one god.

Last time I looked there was over 3000 religions all exclusively claiming theirs is the 'true path' and all the others have it wrong.

I think its more to do with active religious cult recruitment than anything else.

Who knows? Eskimo religion or Polynesian religion may be the ones who have it right ....or of course none of them.