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Is Religion Simply A Security Blanket? INTELLIGENT Discussion With NO FLAMING

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posted on Sep, 23 2008 @ 05:16 AM
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I believe it is about what makes you feel comfortable - I feel comfortable in the process of questioning things and being proud of it even no one agrees with me, for someone the most comforting feeling is to be like everyone else and not sticking out of the crowd and keeping their thoughts to themselves.

How many people actually believe in religion or even God will remain unknown because a habit is very powerful code.

I noticed that for me the broader knowledge brought more questions and more doubts. My point is that religion is interested to keep masses as dumb as possible.




posted on Sep, 23 2008 @ 07:47 AM
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Hi Dave. I was just reminded of this PODcast that I made a while back. About 3 years ago, actually.
And I thought you might enjoy listening to it as it's on this subject.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I made this PODcast before I was comfortable saying, "I am an atheist". At that time, I was just saying "I'm not religious".

There are some great PODcast replies from other members, too, religious and non.



posted on Sep, 23 2008 @ 09:28 AM
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If you believe in the "big bang theory" and evolution in their current manifestations then you are forced to believe in two "miracles" because both have one at their foundation.

1.) That the universe was created out of nothing.

2..) That life somehow was formed out of non-life.



posted on Sep, 23 2008 @ 10:56 AM
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reply to post by countbad
 


count....point one.....that is a serious mystery.

But, your point two....please research 'abiogenesis' on youTube, just a starting point.

Very, very smart people have shown, already, that life can 'spontaneously' erupt, simply from well-known chemical reactions.

In fact, as you sit there, and read the computer screen in front of you, your body is undergoing chemical reactions. EVERYTHING about life, is about...chemical reactions.

For plants, it's about photosynthesis. It is a chemically-based process.

For a mammal, such as you and me (and, yes that is correct grammar) everything you eat is broken down, chemically, and converted to energy, again, chemically, to supply nutrients to keep your body alive. Again, as a mammal, we must maintain a core body temperature, again this is done by the nature of our Genus. Please compare to the reptile Genus....or, is it Phylum??

As to Dave Rabbit's OP.....I admit, right here, I haven't spent the time to read all the responses. I DID read the OP, however. I found it compelling, and thought-provoking.

I am troubled, as perhaps many are of late, by the fact that some, who proclaim to be 'religious', still wish to ignore, or worse, denigrate science, when it inconveniently ~sarcasm~ tends to 'destroy' their long-held belilefs.

For me, I can stand on solid ground of science. No, we (not just 'science', but "we" as a species) don't have all of the answers to life's questions.....and a belief in one's faith is, of course, a personal choice and a right! (in an open society...)

I now wish to come full-circle, back to the OP, and that premise....

The concept of religion HAS BEEN a 'security blanket' for many generations, but for various reasons.

Early, thinking man....seeing a thunderstorm.....would likely say "God did it!"

Without the benefit of science, to explain and understand why CumuloNimbus clouds form, and why lightning is produced....this, to a people who didn't even know anything about electricity, it is understandable to attribute these things to some 'gods'....some 'powers' that are not yet understood.

Folks, it's almost the same analogy as to tell our children about the 'Tooth Fairy', or 'Santa Clause'. Or, the 'Boogie Monster'.

Fairy Tales, designed to delight, and amuse those young people, that we hold dear....but a deception that is promulgated generation after generation....and likely conducted in other cultures, in other iterations, that I am not aware of. Since, of course, i only know my own culture, here in the USA.

But, many of these 'myths' have travelled around the world, and turn out to be cross-cultural, sometimes.

Harking back to Santa Clause....and his eight reindeer. Reindeer don't live in North America!!! (Well, maybe in Canada.....) BUT, they are prevalent in Finland!

Hence, the symbol of every American Christmas is perfectly turned into a fantasy.....

And 'fantasy' seems to sell, very well.....and thus, we have "Organized Religion"

Fantasy, at its best.....for sale to anyone willing to pay.



posted on Sep, 23 2008 @ 11:07 AM
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Dave, just for the sake of balance, could you please permit a quick comment.


reply to post by weedwhacker
 



Firstly you said


Very, very smart people have shown, already, that life can 'spontaneously' erupt, simply from well-known chemical reactions.

...then you said


And 'fantasy' seems to sell, very well.....and thus, we have "Organized Religion"


I'd like to offer another perspective to the first statement:

And 'fantasy' seems to sell, very well.....and thus, we have an education system full of pseudo-science.




weedwhacker: Please bear in mind that millions of believers have a scientific training and believe that scientific evidence backs up the case for a Creator. I look forward to debating this with you some other time, perhaps.


Take This Discussion PRIVATELY





[edit on 23/9/08 by pause4thought]

[edit on 9/23/2008 by Dave Rabbit]



posted on Sep, 23 2008 @ 11:24 AM
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reply to post by pause4thought
 


Well....'pause4thought'....I could only read your screenname by 'replying'....because of the background color you selected....or, perhaps it's a limitation on my computer screen???

Regardless....seems you disagree with me? Hmmm...what a surprise!

I have to, now push the 'Post Reply' button, since I cannot see your post that I am responding to....and I have to move my car before I get a ticket

EDIT.....OK, pause I'm back. I'm not sure about your claim that many have a 'scientific' claim for a creator.

Depends on what you wish to define as a 'creator', doesn't it?

A 'creator', of some sort, who, in our time frame of about 13.7 Billion years ago, started something, say, a sort of 'lab experiment', and wanted to see what would be 'cooked up'? Then, I can agree with you.

However, if you wish to argue that Humans are somehow the 'pinnacle' of Creation, then I will have a few issues.

An alleged 'Creator' could likely 'create' a much better organism, than we appear to be.

The male sexual organ, serves a dual purpose....same as the male Simian organ. (and, for that matter, most mammals on this planet). And, on this topic, why do we need to excrete undigested food?? Wouldn't a better design eliminate (no pun) this requirement??

Why are our brains so exposed, and not buried deep in our Torsos? Would that not be a better place to protect the seat of our 'soul'???

Well, the answer lies in how evolution works. Our eyes, and our ears....two very essential traits to survival, needed to be as close to the 'processing center' (the brain) as they could, to enable very fast responses.

Of course, an imagined 'creator' could have modified the pathways to an extent that the brain could have been sequestered in the torso, someplace less vulnerable than the HEAD!!!

But, alas....there was no 'creator'....just random mutations, and selective generations....the viable results lived, and the un-viable died out.

This is evolution, it's how it works.





[edit on 9/23/0808 by weedwhacker]



posted on Sep, 23 2008 @ 11:29 AM
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reply to post by weedwhacker
 


Hmmm. Screen on the blink, parking ticket on the cards. Sounds like you need some prayer.

(It goes something like this: "In the midst of his hectic, troubled life, give him the grace and wisdom to stop and consider his Maker.)

Wishing you every blessing.




posted on Sep, 23 2008 @ 11:59 AM
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reply to post by plato63
 


Plato 63, Sorry for the delay in responding…here’s a few sites on Kolberg…

www.vtaide.com...

www.asa3.org...

Btw, There has been some serious work on faith/belief and ‘security blankets’ since Kolberg…Dr. James Fowler says…
"Faith . . .may be characterized as an integral, centering process underlying the formation of beliefs, values and meanings that…
(1) gives coherence and direction to persons’ lives,
(2) links them in shared trusts and loyalties with others,
(3) grounds their personal stances and communal loyalties in the sense of relatedness to a larger frame of reference, and
(4) enables them to face and deal with the limit conditions of human life, relying upon that which has the quality of ultimacy in their lives . . . (The book: Faithful Change by James Fowler, p. 56)

I believe his stages of faith will assist those who desire to get their mind around the complexity of religion down through the ages. OT believes Christianitys’ failures, although far less than its successes…were lead by those of immature faith. (early stages of development)

I don’t buy Fowler’s levels wholeheartedly, but it’s pretty close…but should definitely tie into this discussion. Below are Fowler’s Stages of Faith…pretty deep stuff…can’t wait to see the responses.

Source: thejourney.typepad.com...

Stage 1 - Primal Faith :: "Earliest faith is what enables us to undergo these separations [from parents] without undue anxiety or fear of loss of self. Primal faith forms before there is language. It forms the basic rituals of care and interchange and mutuality. And, although it does not determine the course of our later faith, it lays the foundation on which later faith will build or that will have to be rebuilt in later faith" (p. 103).

Stage 2 - Intuitive-Projective Faith :: "The next stage of faith emerges in early childhood with the acquisition of language. Here imagination, stimulated by stories, gestures, and symbols and not yet controlled by logical thinking, combines with perception and feelings to create long-lasting faith images . . .Representations of God take conscious form in this period and draw, for good or ill, on children’s experiences of their parents or other adults to whom they are emotional attached in the first years of life . . .when conversion experiences occur at later stages in ones’ life, the images formed in this stage have to be reworked in some important ways." (p. 103)

Stage 3 - Mythic-Literal Faith (coincides with Piaget’s "concrete operational thinking") :: Here concrete operational thinking--the developing ability to think logically--emerges to help us order the world with categories of causality, space, time and number. We can now sort out the real from the make-believe, the actual from fantasy. We can enter into the perspectives of others, and we become capable of capturing life and meanings in narrative and stories. (p. 105)

Stage 4 - Synthetic-Conventional Faith (coincides with Piaget’s "formal operational thinking") :: "The next stage characteristically begins to take form in early adolescence. The emergence of formal operational thinking [the ability to think abstractly] opens the way for reliance upon abstract ideas and concepts for making sense of one’s world. The person can now reflect upon past experience and search them for meaning and pattern. At the same time, concerns about one’s personal future--one’s identity, one’s work, career, or vocation--and one’s personal relationships become important" (p. 107).

Stage 5 - Individuative-Reflective Faith :: "In this next stage two important movements have to occur. One the one hand, to move into the Individuative-Reflective stage, we have to question, examine, and reclaim the values and beliefs that we have formed to that point in our lives. They must become explicit commitments rather than tacit commitments. ‘Tacit" her means unconsidered, unexamined, uncritically approved. "Explicit’ means consciously chosen and critically supported commitments . . .In the other move that this stage requires one has to claim what I call an ‘executive ego.’ In the previous stage . . .one could say that a person’s identity is largely shaped by her or his roles and relationships . . .In moving to the Individuative-Reflective stage, one has to face and answer such questions as, Who am I when I’m not defined by being my parents’ son or daughter? Who am I when I’m not defined by being so-and-so’s spouse? Who am I when I’m not defined by the work I do? Who is the ‘I’ that has those roles and relations but is not fully expressed by any one of them?" (pp. 109)

Stage 6 - Conjunctive Faith :: "At midlife we frequently see the emergence of the stage we call Conjunctive Faith. This stage involves the embrace and integration of opposites and polarities in one’s life. It means realizing in one’s late thirties, forties, or beyond that one is both young and old, and that youth and age are held together in the same life . . .It means coming to terms with the fact that we are both constructive people and, inadvertently destructive people. Paul captured this in Romans 7 when he said, "For I do not the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I do . . .Who will rescue me from this body of death?’" (19, 24 NRSV; p. 111)

Stage 7 - Universalizing Faith :: "Beyond paradox and polarities, persons in the Universalizing Faith stage are grounded in a oneness with the power of being or God. Their visions and commitments seem to free them for a passionate yet detached spending of the self in love. Such persons are devoted to overcoming division, oppression, and violence, and live in effective anticipatory response to an inbreaking commonwealth of love and justice, the reality of an inbreaking kingdom of God." (P. 113).



posted on Sep, 23 2008 @ 12:01 PM
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reply to post by pause4thought
 


Good try, not sure who bothered to give you a star....

You're not fooling any of us, who are rational.

NO, no parking ticket. No 'heavenly intervention'....I just moved the bloody car in time!!!

Rational thinking trumps irrational thought, every time!

But, thanks for your concern. AND, please don't offend me by 'praying' for me. It is insulting.

WARNED - NEXT, POST BAN


[edit on 9/23/2008 by Dave Rabbit]



posted on Sep, 23 2008 @ 12:27 PM
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9 years ago I would have considered myself an agnostic, borderline atheist, and would have likely supported the view that organized religion provided a crutch or security blanket. I can recall debating with my wife at the time against the existence of God by suggesting that mankind could have been created by aliens procreating with apes.

However, in 1999, my world, at least my perception of it, was turned inside out when I had a number of supernatural experiences in which I encountered the Holy Trinity in all three forms.

I'm reasonably certain I know what most are thinking after reading my last statement. If I hadn't gone through it I would likely be sharing in your opinion of it. However, having experienced God in this world, I perceive the "security blanket" can be attached to those who cling to science, that which can be seen and measured, for they fear the prospects of embracing that which is unseen and unmeasurable.

Needless to say my life has changed in many ways since my experiences. And, over the years I have shared my experiences with others, mostly with individuals who I felt either would appreciate them or were in need of some inspiration. Having shared my experiences with hundreds of persons over the years I eventually came to a point last year where I felt the need to broaden the territory of my supposed apostolate. I created an internet site that details my encounters and provides links to other cases of visons and apparitions that are religious in nature.

Close Encounters with the Holy Trinity

My encounters run the gamut of emotions, from pure terror to pure ecstasy. I was awakened to truths that I was not seeking and even doubted to exist. My experiences were not solely my own as loved ones shared in and witnessed different aspects of each encounter.

Each encounter is a very short read and I've made the effort towards writing them as objectively as possible given the extreme nature of the experiences.

The Waterfall of Knowledge

You are Purified

Abba

I'd like to state that I came to this site, as well as others like it, in the effort to gain greater insights to our developing world. Ever since my experiences I have felt that our end was near.

As for religion being a security blanket. I trust that some may cling to their faith life out of fear, the fear of damnation and/or the fear losing heaven, but, I suspect that most cling to it out of love. It's easier for critics (as I once was) who don't get it or accept it to diminish the practice of religion as fear driven. This allows for the critic to feel superior. The truth is that the compulsion to attack an opposing ideology is the action which showcases the geniune fear. The action, in this instance to be critical of, is taken to alleviate the fear of being wrong. The action is taken to protect the ego.

Please trust me when I state that I would likely have become blue in the face in my effort to debate one' s system of belief. My effort would have been fueled by my need to protect my system of not believing or needing to believe. I know differently now. And, I mean that most sincerely. I don't just believe in the existence of God, I know it. And, trust me when I suggest that having this knowledge is both a blessing and a curse. I have been a slave to Christ since my awakening and lost many freedoms that my worldly existence provides.

Given my perspective I say find a security blanket, cling to it, for it may very well lead you to salvation. Life eternal is far greater than the world we live in.



posted on Sep, 23 2008 @ 12:27 PM
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reply to post by weedwhacker
 


Hi. Pleased to hear you're no longer in a pickle.


You're not fooling any of us, who are rational.

'Rationality' is often a fancy-sounding screen for 'If I can't understand it I'm not convinced'. As such it has definite limits. People who saw with their own eyes Christ enabling those born blind to see just with a word never got a rational explanation - it just happened. (If, as he claimed, he was in fact the Maker, there is a rational explanation - only it involves facts beyond the immediate experience of those who observed what he did.)


NO, no parking ticket. No 'heavenly intervention'....

Sorry ww, but if you look back, that's not what I prayed for.


Rational thinking trumps irrational thought, every time!

Faith trumps the limitations of the senses, every time!


But, thanks for your concern.

It emanates from the love that Christ put in my heart, so he deserves the credit.


AND, please don't offend me by 'praying' for me. It is insulting.

Sorry, I'm under orders from my Master. Please refer your complaints to him when you meet him.

(The debate you want isn't really germane to the subject at hand. Those who wish to look at another perspective could look here, though: Design Q&A (articles).)

All the best, ww.



posted on Sep, 23 2008 @ 01:04 PM
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reply to post by pause4thought
 


pause4thought,

OT doesn't want to jump in the fray here, but I wanted to thank you for the DESIGN Q&A link...for me, at least, it's provides great comfort...kinda the 'threads' (fabric) that make up the security 'blanket'...no pun intended...well I guess it was intended...any way I sure enjoy the discussion.



[edit on 23-9-2008 by OldThinker]



posted on Sep, 23 2008 @ 01:48 PM
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Originally posted by pause4thought
'Rationality' is often a fancy-sounding screen for 'If I can't understand it I'm not convinced'. As such it has definite limits. People who saw with their own eyes Christ enabling those born blind to see just with a word never got a rational explanation - it just happened.

When we look in our history books and learn that Thomas Edison invented the light bulb, we can back that up every time we turn on a light.

That's more "convincing", and for very good reason, than believing a fairy tail.
Even if the fairy tail has fairy tail "witnesses" in it.



Faith trumps the limitations of the senses, every time!

That's all fine and dandy, but why make up stories that can't be proven and have "faith" in them and try to make other people have faith in them, why not have "faith" while continuing to try to discover provable, solid evidence? Having "faith" in an old fairy tail is not moving forward, it's keeping us back. Having "faith" that we'll find more answers through study and research is moving forward, as everything in the universe moves forward with us.



posted on Sep, 23 2008 @ 01:58 PM
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Have you heard that "beauty is in the eye of the beholder?"

Do you realize that many of your "comfort" foods are probably the foods your mother fixed for you when you were young?

Do you know that the art, architecture, and music you find appealing are likely to be greatly influenced by the culture and environment you grew up in?

Just stop and consider it, think about it, for a minute. In many cases what is familiar to us, what we are used to, is what we find attractive.

So... every time someone says "there has to be a God, the world is so wonderful .. beautiful .. everything is perfect .. etc. etc. "

I have to think ... Well, of course you think that! You're part of it! You evolved as part of it and your existence is an adaptation to it.

If some person from another planet where things are totally different came along, he might see things quite differently. ( Green grass? Ugh! Everyone knows grass is supposed to be purple! )

Okay, slightly humorous there but think about it ... isn't it possible that the reason the world seems so "perfect" to you is because you are a natural part of it?

Anyway .. what kind of loving God would have created mosquitos, ticks, blood-sucking flies, leeches, maggots, cockroaches, viruses, and ... ??



posted on Sep, 23 2008 @ 02:19 PM
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I have a question for all

Can an ant figure out a human?

if not why do we continually try to figure out "GOD"?

And why do people always try to bring down the intelligence of a GOD down to our level, I find it quite perplexing...

GOD says thou shall not steal.... why would a GOD care?



posted on Sep, 23 2008 @ 02:21 PM
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reply to post by mmariebored
 



Hi mm


That's all fine and dandy, but why make up stories that can't be proven and have "faith" in them and try to make other people have faith in them


We did not follow cleverly contrived myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ; instead we were eyewitnesses of his majesty

2 Peter 1:16

The Christian faith is based on testimony. As such those who believe base their faith on something akin to a court case. After examining the evidence they have concluded it is sufficiently reliable to form the basis of their entire lives.

If this approach were not rational there would be no criminal justice system. As with jurisprudence, science has a part to play, but it takes individual deliberation to reach a verdict.

You appear to call Christ and his ministry a fairy tale. I have no idea whether that is the result of in-depth research and consideration. However seeing as countless millions since the days of Christ have seen it as an issue of solid historical evidence I would seek to suggest that 'fairy tale' is unduly pejorative (in an absolute sense, although at the end of the day you may justifiably use whatever term you wish if you've actually come to such a conclusion after examining the evidence). It took me three years of intensive study before I could decide either way.


why not have "faith" while continuing to try to discover provable, solid evidence

I've no objection to that at all. I'm not against rational thinking - I'm just convinced it has limits which many people have never considered. Suffice it to say that reality is not dependent on human understanding. In fact as science often progresses through a process of testing and then disregarding hypotheses, human understanding is demonstrably often wrong insomuch as it is all too often based on unproven theory.

To illustrate: those who believe alien technology has been recovered also believe it may well have been implemented via reverse engineering. However would the engineers have to fully understand what made their designs work before they could produce a working model? I suggest science has not even enabled us to fully understand many of the basic aspects of this world, such as gravity and light - but that doesn't stop us from trusting them. Which slightly turns the tables on the lightbulb analogy...


Having "faith" in an old fairy tail is not moving forward, it's keeping us back.

Well looking at society I'd say the further it gets from faith in and love of a morally pure Maker the more criminality and mental illness we see. Bye bye family, bye bye respect for other people, bye bye purpose in life and hope beyond the grave.

The secularizing influence of the priests of 'Science Solves Everything' have led to nihilism and despair.

Oh, but we do know what asteroids are made of...







[edit to add reference]


[edit on 23/9/08 by pause4thought]



posted on Sep, 23 2008 @ 02:28 PM
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reply to post by pause4thought
 


I thought this thread was not a debate?? Maybe you need to reread Dave's OP!



posted on Sep, 23 2008 @ 02:34 PM
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reply to post by JaxonRoberts
 


Sorry JR, that's why I replied to ww with a link. But Dave did say we could address specific questions raised by other posters, I believe.


And on that basis, a quick response to SG.


GOD says thou shall not steal.... why would a GOD care?

He'd care if people were very dear to him, just as a father cares about the moral direction of his children.

Hope this may at least be food for thought, SG.


Take This Discussion PRIVATELY


[corrected typo]


[edit on 23/9/08 by pause4thought]

[edit on 9/23/2008 by Dave Rabbit]

[edit on 9/23/2008 by Dave Rabbit]



posted on Sep, 23 2008 @ 02:38 PM
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Originally posted by spitefulgod
I have a question for all

Can an ant figure out a human?

if not why do we continually try to figure out "GOD"?

And why do people always try to bring down the intelligence of a GOD down to our level, I find it quite perplexing...

GOD says thou shall not steal.... why would a GOD care?


I don't know if an ant can 'figure out a human' or not.. do you?

Can you figure an ant out?

Don't underestimate ants - they are pretty successful at what they do. They construct marvellous buildings, work extremely well together and possess amazing communication systems. They also live in peaceful and well organised societies.

Are humans so arrogant that they think of themselves so highly above ants?

More relevant to this thread and Dave's questions - Do you think ants believe in us?

Of course, this isn't about 'ants' - but your question does demonstrate the need for a God to be beyond our understanding.




[edit on 23/9/08 by Myrdyn]



posted on Sep, 23 2008 @ 02:40 PM
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reply to post by pause4thought
 


I hear you, I just don't want new posters to get the idea that this thread is a debate like other threads. It's what makes this thread special and for me a 'must read'. Just a sharing of beliefs without the need to defend those beliefs.



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