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A place for actual Proof of 9/11 events

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posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 01:08 PM
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Originally posted by KaginD
No one has proof. Bottom line. And anything that we might consider proof the OP is just going to crucify and say we are derailing so whats the point???

I have an even better question.. Why is this thread still open?? No one is even talking about the original topic. At this point everyone is just attacking each other..



No, see you almost get the point.

If there is no proof and noone has it, then this thread should be empty right?

RIGHT???????????????????????????

Why is it still open?

There should be nothing here but the OP asking for proof but it is filling up and still, as you said, there is no proof.

That is the point. If you are gonna claim that you already proved that F93 crashed in PA, then where is that proof. "oh well it is in thread such and such i will have to find it again later and post a link for you."

That link never comes. So the next time someone claims they have proven something, they could put that proof right here. Or, they could never make that claim again.

Like you said, noone has any proof at all, so why are there so many posts?

How do you know how I might react to what you consider proof. Someone would have to at least attempt to show some in this thread for me to react to it in the first place but now you know how I will react?

"Well he got all jerky when I posted off topic over and over for no reason so I am sure he will just dismiss any proof too."

What???????????????

Try me. Try actually posting what you think is proof. I would be delighted. I am not here to dismiss anything off hand. Anything that anyone thinks is proof of any of the events on 9/11 (government tale or otherwise) I would love to see it.

So far all I got was this crap so how would you even know.




posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 01:12 PM
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Originally posted by Masisoar


If we had the type of

"PROOF"
"PROOF"
"PROOF"

you are looking for, we probably wouldn't be in such a debate over the 9/11 conspiracy for either side.


Right, so the point of your post?

Can anyone tell me the point of a post like this other than to get some ATS points? Has it not already been made clear that noone has proof? Has it not been made clear that there is still such debate? Has it not been made clear that you do not like my thread?

YEP
YEP
YEP

So, for all of you that are so worried about 9/11 but are still posting this nonsense....please tell me what a post like this does to help in any way?

Tell me how a post like this accomplishes anything other than getting the poster some more points. Or how about we all stop this crap now and just let it sit quietly void of proof.

You obviously do not like my thread, and some of you sure do not like me. So how about you stop spending so much time here doing nothing. Go somewhere you like. Go be with people you like. I will not be lonely here I promise.



posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 01:14 PM
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This is seriously getting old. So you are saying that you knew there was no proof before you posted??? Then that is considered trolling. Out Right. I think that breaks so many T&C's. I'm done here. You have just proven what everyone was saying about you..



posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 01:22 PM
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To provide truth lets take the fire chief who made it up to the 78 floor and radioed that"We have a couple of fires up here that wont require much to put out."
Next thing that happens is the building collapses.
The gravity collapse throws a 22 ton piece of steel 600 feet or two football fields away. The visual evidence of a parabolic ejection of debris, coupled with the free fall video evidence of the three towers should be sufficient to disbelieve the official story.
The core columns in thirty foot sections so convenient to load on trucks for disposal.
Eye witness reports of explosions before the planes even hit the buildings, auditory and visual evidence and eyewitness accounts of multiple explosions after plane impact and before collapse.
The military exercizes conveniently on the same day at the same time dealing with hijacked airplanes hitting buildings.



posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 01:35 PM
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Originally posted by MorningStar8741
Ok, I have spent an awful lot of time here, before and after I registered, reading the various 9/11 threads. It is obvious that nothing but small petty arguments get taken up and the big picture alwasy fades away. I am sick of watching good points get passed over because a poster is more interested in saying what they think they already know then answering charges about the actual topic.

Here ya go.

NO bickering, no off topic, no back and forth for pages. All that needs be put here is PROOF. You run around a 9/11 thread claiming to be certain things are a certain way and that you can prove it. Here you go. This is the place to put all of that proof. Either way, back up the gov, dont, as long as everyone looking at it can agree that it is proof then fine.


I would like to say I think your approach to the subject if top notch but I'm afraid this board will be invaded by trolls just like every other 9/11 board
I wish you luck and hope I'm wrong though



posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 01:40 PM
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Now hear this...

The thread title has been changed at the OP's request... I have no doubt that civility and decorum will be the order of the day...

Thanks

[edit on 21/9/2008 by Mirthful Me]



posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 01:45 PM
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Planes and fires collapsed the buildings is the OS.
The proof supporting that comes from members, agents and agencies bought and paid for by the supporters of the OS.

Thus proof opposing this OS is supressed, distorted, concealed, and hidden.

Thirteen years after the Warren Commission the Govt/Congress discovered that there were seven shots fired that day.
Opposed to the three the Commission "proved"



posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 01:48 PM
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Originally posted by fmcanarney
To provide truth lets take the fire chief who made it up to the 78 floor and radioed that"We have a couple of fires up here that wont require much to put out."
Next thing that happens is the building collapses.
The gravity collapse throws a 22 ton piece of steel 600 feet or two football fields away. The visual evidence of a parabolic ejection of debris, coupled with the free fall video evidence of the three towers should be sufficient to disbelieve the official story.
The core columns in thirty foot sections so convenient to load on trucks for disposal.
Eye witness reports of explosions before the planes even hit the buildings, auditory and visual evidence and eyewitness accounts of multiple explosions after plane impact and before collapse.
The military exercizes conveniently on the same day at the same time dealing with hijacked airplanes hitting buildings.



This is a great example of what I am trying to avoid. This goes with the common sense thing. Do not talk aout what firefighters saw, post their exact quotes, or the audio or video.

Do not talk about collumns neatly coming out ready to load on a truck, show this.

Do not talk about eye witness reports, post those eyewitness reports.

Am I getting clear yet?



posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 01:56 PM
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reply to post by MorningStar8741
 


Baaaaahahahaha.

I might as well add my two cents, off the topic, of course.

MorningStar I'm assuming you're laughing at all this as much as I am. You cannot really be this angry after titling the thread "Proof The Government Story Is True.", then seeing truthers do their thang. Your hope that after 7 years, hundreds of scientists on both sides debating, that this one, ground-breaking thread, so cleverly titled and thought out, would bring the two sides together to finally get the truth has to be a joke. The fact that you reply to a one-paragraph off-topic post with a character-limit-approaching off topic post with many long, annoying quotes, passionate, all-caps ranting, and saying "proof" over and over again like some awesome, not-at-all whiny protector of all things non-partisan and truthful, has to mean you are baiting. I didn't take the time to read all of this absolutely dreadful thread, so I don't know if you already revealed this, but you could at least bait with a sense of humour and throw out some good burns or something instead of these serious, lame, demands for proof.

If you're gonna bait, bait on a topic that hasn't had 234524354254235443 sly dogs do the exacty same thing already.

What? Truthers providing personal opinions and theories regarding what they feel is their government's attempts to control their lives? Unheard of! NEVER thought that would happen! Thanks for opening our eyes to this!

And if you were being serious, my heartfelt apologies, buddy...for several reasons.



posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 02:03 PM
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reply to post by MorningStar8741
 


I think that the buildings falling at free fall speed is something that would prove that they were brought down intentionally. Also, there were people in the basement that heard and felt explosions go off right before the planes hit. So that tells me that there was something more then the original story. As far as proof, the proof is the thermite that scientists found under the rubble from the buildings. Thermite has no reason to be there, yet there it was.. Right along with what looked like lava.



posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 02:06 PM
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Originally posted by KaginD
reply to post by MorningStar8741
 


I think that the buildings falling at free fall speed is something that would prove that they were brought down intentionally. Also, there were people in the basement that heard and felt explosions go off right before the planes hit. So that tells me that there was something more then the original story. As far as proof, the proof is the thermite that scientists found under the rubble from the buildings. Thermite has no reason to be there, yet there it was.. Right along with what looked like lava.


Wow, I must need to type much more slowly.

S H O W U S T H E T H E R M I T E O R T H E S C I E N T I S T S C L A I M I N G T O F I N D I T.

Am I coming through. All of what you said is great, informative and may be very important. But it is not proof, it is you talking about proof. Do you see the difference. I cannot go around telling people that Kagen said they found thermite. See how that just does nothing. Now, if you know there was thermite found, then please post the evidence of such. That is all I am asking for.



posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 02:11 PM
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One person show me that they can read and understand please. It is getting sad and scary in this thread. I have heard of this river of 'lava' many times but says who originally? Where are the statements about it? Thermal imaging? Before you say something here. Think about it. Why do you believe what you are about to say? Now, do not post what you were going to say but post what made you believe it in the first place. Then feel free to follow that with whatever babbling you want to do.

Does this make sense to anyone out there?



posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 02:28 PM
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Someone posts something you want to see verified, why don't you try poking around yourself so you can draw your own conclusions? After all, 'proof' has to come out of the mind and mouth of someone initially, who is to say that the person who supplys this truth is being truthful?

Just to pick one: Thermal Images

Thermal Images

It took me about five minutes to find the images and an explination. With which I can further research claims of thermite and the like and hopefully draw my own conclusions.

For the last time: You are not going to find some non-arguable, bullet proof piece of proof. Everything can be argued true or false, and everything is.

An expert can lie just as easily as an ATS member. And an expert can be wrong in their 'proof', just like an ATS member.

edit to add: You wan't to find sourced articles for more or less every aspect of 9/11 and the events afterward, then go to this page.

[edit on 9/21/0808 by spines]



posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 02:33 PM
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posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 02:40 PM
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Proof? Like an argument or like evidence in a legal sense?

Here is some truth about 9/11.




This is an image taken during the cleanup effort. Many beams were cut in order to be hauled away. Oftentimes, this is taken as evidence that the beams were cut by thermite. These beams were actually cut by post destruction teams.

Another bit of fact. Silverstein did talk about pulling WTC 7. By this, he was referring to calling all people out of the building. As in 'pull out'. The phrase is used in some demolition groups (pop mechanics was mistaken, by a little bit) but is not the most common term because it refers to an older practice of literally pulling over a building. To say you pull something is a very open ended action that could mean many things.

People, on this forum do not mention anything that is impossible to show reasonable. I will not mention any thermite used on the towers if there is a reasonable counterargument about aluminum. I will not mention demolition of the 7th WTC if there is a reasonable argument that it needed to be demolished for any reason. I am sticking to the undisputed things. The truthful and noncontroversial because I do not know enough to prove the more questionable things.



posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 02:40 PM
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reply to post by MorningStar8741
 


Professor Steven Jones of BYU is a credible source who has been talking about the thermite. en.wikipedia.org...

Check out this vid too. The music sucks but oh well. video.google.com...

[edit on 21-9-2008 by Trustnoone1987]

[edit on 21-9-2008 by Trustnoone1987]



posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 02:48 PM
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Originally posted by spines
Someone posts something you want to see verified, why don't you try poking around yourself so you can draw your own conclusions? After all, 'proof' has to come out of the mind and mouth of someone initially, who is to say that the person who supplys this truth is being truthful?

Just to pick one: Thermal Images

Thermal Images

It took me about five minutes to find the images and an explination. With which I can further research claims of thermite and the like and hopefully draw my own conclusions.

For the last time: You are not going to find some non-arguable, bullet proof piece of proof. Everything can be argued true or false, and everything is.

An expert can lie just as easily as an ATS member. And an expert can be wrong in their 'proof', just like an ATS member.

edit to add: You wan't to find sourced articles for more or less every aspect of 9/11 and the events afterward, then go to this page.

[edit on 9/21/0808 by spines]


First of all, I have done plenty of poking around and that is exactly why I do not go running from thread to thread screaming that I have proven anything already. Aside from that, all the poking around I do only serves me. If this thread were to actually fill up with nothing but factual evidence, well I cannot help but think that would be more useful than me poking around myself and looking at things myself and making my own conclusions myself. See the difference?

Aside from that, thank you and everyone after for posting more along the lines of what I was hoping to see.

Now that the thread is actually gaining some momentum in the right direction, i truly do welcome the exact same kinds of posts with links to official statements and pictures from any side of the argument. I am not waiting here to slam it down, since that would be just as much BS oppinion as I have already been railing against.

I just want to see all this stuff as well as have one 9/11 place that is free of personal jade. Thanks guys for posting exactly what I was looking for for the last several posts. As long as it stays that way, you will not ever have to hear from me again and I know many of you would prefer that.

ps. Thanks to the mods for helping me change the name so as to not be a lure and upset people for seeming dishonest. I hope the new title is helping the thread move in the right direction as well as fresh posters.


P.P.S. I gave you all a star for even trying to be on topic. What a shame that if you had simply put how you felt about 9/11 and been derogotory to me, you would have 6 or 7 stars by now. I hope that newcomers see that contrast and realize it is not a trend that is going to yield anything good if left to run wild.

[edit on 9/21/08 by MorningStar8741]



posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 02:51 PM
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"The Scott cylinders [firefighters' air packs] and the oxygen cylinders were all letting go. They were blowing up left and right." –Firefighter Todd Heaney, FDNY oral testimony transcripts
The New York firefighter's account on Thursday sounded like his worst nightmare. "It was like snow flakes coming down, with no one around," 53-year-old Ernie Armstead said. "The ambulance blew up, then the fire truck blew up, six police cars blew up, one after the other. "I was in shock. I was in smoke and the debris." Source


wtc7lies.googlepages.com...



[edit on 21-9-2008 by fmcanarney]



posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 02:59 PM
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Originally posted by fmcanarney
"The Scott cylinders [firefighters' air packs] and the oxygen cylinders were all letting go. They were blowing up left and right." –Firefighter Todd Heaney, FDNY oral testimony transcripts
The New York firefighter's account on Thursday sounded like his worst nightmare. "It was like snow flakes coming down, with no one around," 53-year-old Ernie Armstead said. "The ambulance blew up, then the fire truck blew up, six police cars blew up, one after the other. "I was in shock. I was in smoke and the debris." Source




can you please edit that to include the source please.


I did not want to waste another post just to say thanks for posting it so since the edit window was open still and all...thanks.

[edit on 9/21/08 by MorningStar8741]



posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 07:45 PM
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911research.wtc7.net...

people.boston.com...

wtc.nist.gov...

Let’s start with temperatures – 1,340° F. temperatures, recorded in thermal images of the surface of the World Trade Center rubble pile a week after 9/11 by NASA’s AVIRIS equipment on USGS overflights.3 Such temperatures cannot be achieved by oxygen-starved hydrocarbon fires.
Such fires burn at only 600 to 800° F.4 Remember, there was no fire on the top of the pile. The source of this incredible heat was therefore below the surface of the rubble, where it must have been far hotter than 1,340 degrees.
molten steel



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