Frightening!!!!!! (Draft Bailout Bill)

Originally posted by Relentless
In a nutshell, it would give such power over financial matters in this country, without limitation, and without recourse (no actions may be questioned or challenged) that for all intents and purposes....

We will be living in an economic police state, with no say moving forward. It's over folks! This is no longer America, I'm not even sure what it is at this point if they adopt this.

They started changing the rules last week, and now they seem to be throwing out everything (with consideration of the taxpayer, my tush!).

Our forefathers warned about this type of thing, saying it should never happen. (Many of you have the quotes in your signatures). Well, they're about to do it anyway.

If this gets adopted like that, the world as you know it changes forever.

haha, all of these posts make me laugh. You guys are all so paranoid... what the hell good is it going to do you to complain on this board about it anyway? nothing. Go enjoy your lives, spend time with your family... forget about this nonsense.

haha....

You know what I am starting to see happening? With that clause that there will be no opportunity for review by court of law, etc?

I am going to bet that those properties will be, as they are reporting on the news acquired from the financial institutions for pennies on the dollar. And then, what I see happening is those properties being sold in lots to "middle men" at deep, deep discounts resulting in a net loss to the taxpayer, and with very favorable financing. These middle men will most likely be friends or business associates or somehow related to the person given the authority to make these sales without oversight. Then those middle men will sell the properties back to the "little people" for not much less than they were originally worth, bits at a time, at enormous profit to themselves, and probably with a tax break for their "altruism."

That way, they can screw the taxpayers twice. Once, in the initial acquisition of the properties, and again at resale.

Why screw the American people once out of 700 billion when you can screw them twice for much, much, more?

Just my 700 billion cents.

I don't know if anyone else pointed this out, because I couldn't bring myself to read through this all...too sickening...but, this $700B is overtop of the Fannie and Freddie buyouts, yes? So...wouldn't think actually be a ceilingless bill? Because if the Treasury cannot be questioned, what's to stop them from selling assets to the government-run Fannie and Freddie any time they near the ceiling? By pawning things off that way, it would literally give limitless, unquestionable power over all real estate, no?

I tend to somewhat agree with Porky. Honestly, I hate everything I see going on all around. It's spinning out of control and we're the ones getting screwed here. Let's be real here, who is actually going to do anything about it? No one. Everything everyone feared is coming to pass right in front of our eyes here and everyone has said "when it goes down I'm not going to take it." Seriously, not to be a pessimist here, but let me tell you that "it is and, well, you are". America is pretty angry right now, but not angry enough yet to enact real change. That will only come if there isn't any food.

All I can say is we've had a great quality of life here and it's been based on fraud. We all went along with it and now we're mad because it's falling apart. Yes, I too feel betrayed, but we have to pay the price of our lavish excess kinda like the Romans did. Enjoy what you DO have today. Be thankful that we've had it this good for as long as we have. Besides, this isn't the end, just a rough patch. I like to think that perhaps we need something like this in order to change the mindset of most Americans. As a whole, we tend to be very greedy and materialistic. We could do good to learn a lesson from this as our grandparents did during the depression. We have to change ourselves before we can change our country.

Originally posted by porky1981

Originally posted by Relentless
In a nutshell, it would give such power over financial matters in this country, without limitation, and without recourse (no actions may be questioned or challenged) that for all intents and purposes....

We will be living in an economic police state, with no say moving forward. It's over folks! This is no longer America, I'm not even sure what it is at this point if they adopt this.

They started changing the rules last week, and now they seem to be throwing out everything (with consideration of the taxpayer, my tush!).

Our forefathers warned about this type of thing, saying it should never happen. (Many of you have the quotes in your signatures). Well, they're about to do it anyway.

If this gets adopted like that, the world as you know it changes forever.

haha, all of these posts make me laugh. You guys are all so paranoid... what the hell good is it going to do you to complain on this board about it anyway? nothing. Go enjoy your lives, spend time with your family... forget about this nonsense.

haha....

-Congress is briefed on a situation that leaves them "speachless"

-The stock markets were facing "financial armageddon" this past week if AIG had been allowed to collapse.

-The MANY predictions about a meltdown in Sept. 08

-Financial institutions becoming "agents" of the US Gov't

That's enough for me. Time to stock up on Ag and Au

Originally posted by semiunknown
I tend to somewhat agree with Porky. Honestly, I hate everything I see going on all around. It's spinning out of control and we're the ones getting screwed here. Let's be real here, who is actually going to do anything about it? No one. Everything everyone feared is coming to pass right in front of our eyes here and everyone has said "when it goes down I'm not going to take it." Seriously, not to be a pessimist here, but let me tell you that "it is and, well, you are". America is pretty angry right now, but not angry enough yet to enact real change. That will only come if there isn't any food.

All I can say is we've had a great quality of life here and it's been based on fraud. We all went along with it and now we're mad because it's falling apart. Yes, I too feel betrayed, but we have to pay the price of our lavish excess kinda like the Romans did. Enjoy what you DO have today. Be thankful that we've had it this good for as long as we have. Besides, this isn't the end, just a rough patch. I like to think that perhaps we need something like this in order to change the mindset of most Americans. As a whole, we tend to be very greedy and materialistic. We could do good to learn a lesson from this as our grandparents did during the depression. We have to change ourselves before we can change our country.

Ah, ahem...the US taxpayer is about to be saddled with the debt of private corporations. Rough patch? Shot in the face is more like it

I make a good living and can pay my debts. If I can afford the things I "want" then who the hell cares. I don't need a**holes in high places poo-poohing all over my life. That is the problem - along with the people wanting to buy 200K houses making 30K a year. THAT is materialistic and excessive. My home loan officer told me some CRAZY stores earlier this year !! !

reply to post by Relentless


Relentless,

Thank you for posting those links. I have already emailed both my senators and signed the petition. I couldn't email my congressman but will call him tomorrow. I used to be a congressional aide for a congressman on Capitol Hill, it's true what someone else said here, you'll probably just get a form letter in response that's sent to everyone who contacts the office about that particular issue. I know, I've written them. However, this is a critical issue and I can assure you your members of congress are carefully choosing their words on this one and are also carefully looking at their constituents' opinions, because this is a deal breaker. They would have to be insane to pass this bill as it is, unless they are being blackmailed with threat of martial law by the Bush Administration if this does not get passed, which may very well be the case.

We as a people must stand up against any more stripping of our civil liberties and if this bill gets passed as it is we will absolutely have none left. Our lives as we know it will be changed forever. The federal government will control all significant aspects of our personal and business finances, meaning it will have total control over virtually every aspect of our lives. The bill specifically provides for no congressional or judicial oversight to keep the federal govt in check or hold it accountable and takes away any substantive or procedural due process afforded under the Constitution to protect the individual citizen. Why is that? Why must there be NO ACCOUNTABILITY? In addition, as I understand it, the bill makes all employees of all financial institutions AGENTS OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. Does that make your bank teller a fiscal spy against you for the feds? The implications of this bill as it stands are chilling. What is really going on here? A fascist takeover? Every day and in every way, our once free and proud country is becoming everything we stand against.

We as a people must present a unified front against this tyranny and do all we can do prevent this bill from passing, at least not without some MAJOR revisions. We must all contact our senators and congressman, and we must tell them that we will not vote for them if they vote to pass it. We do not have much time so you must act quickly. DO NOT BE AFRAID TO USE YOUR VOICE! We are the American people. The blood our forefathers sacrificed for our freedom calls to us from the ground. We have the courage and we MUST use it to restore our country to the values it was founded on or the legacy we leave to our children will be a bitter one indeed.
God help us all.

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


Just one more step closer to our transitioning into a more Chinese like Gov't it's not quite communism but it's not quite socialism either. It's surely not democracy.

The US likes the way the Chinese do business and overall they're doing quite well even holding a lot o four debt for us. If you can't beat em .. join em apparently that's the motto our gov't is aiming for.

Better hope the Chinese don't call in the debts or we're really screwed.
As soon as China starts trying to chip all their babies give it a few years they'll do it here as well.

The Gattica way of life seems closer and closer on a daily basis. Who's up for a colony somewhere very remote

What is truly frightening about this bill is that it gives a private organization such broad and sweeping powers even powers beyond that of any constitutional checks and balances.

what is also astonishing if I am reading this correctly is that this gives the federal reserve the power to buy into anything

entering into contracts, including contracts for services authorized by section 3109 of title 5, United States Code "without regard to any other provision of law regarding public contracts"

Also this gives the Federal Reserve the right to contract who they wish without regard to bidding for the contract. Now it appears that whoever they wish can win the contract for a job no questions asked.

If I am reading this correctly this gave the federal reserve carte blanche to the entire United States no ifs ands or buts. Without even anyone to question it.

Bad times ahead.

For those of you laughing at the panic this is generating and calling it paranoia...

All I can say is I sincerelly hope your lackadaisical attitude and cognitive dissonance only affect you. I pray to GOD none of you have children!

This alone if nothing else had went on would be nothing to worry about. BUT this was prefaced by a memorandum of intent between The SEC and the FEDERAL RESERVE CORPORATION (IT's not a Freaking government entity!! matter of fact it can't be audited without it's own consent. HINT: this isn't normal rational sane or fiscally prudent) to share information. this is great let a privatelly held corporation access internal information from ongoing SEC investigations. and hey we can't even audit this one even better. Couple that with a ban of shorting financial entities on the stock market, and then add into it this "BailOut Bill" Which would give the government a huge stake in the financial industry and you begin to develop a picture of a system in serious trouble.

The market is fixed, with the advent of this bill the US gov becomes effectivelly the largest mortgage holder in the US. THis should be disturbing at a core level for a much simpler reason anyway.

We are supposedly a free market but regulated economy right? This smacks of a proto reverse socialism that privatizes gains in the business world but makes losses the responsibillity of the public....

Come to think of it unless you own one of these corps that actually remarkably fits the definition of SERFDOM for the general populace. Bad year or good year your burden is always X, and paying it isn't an option. But in good years the overlords get even more.... Hmm

But you're totally right Not a damn thing here to see move along and hope you aren't on the no fly list otherwise that boarding pass does you no good people.

reply to post by JacKatMtn

Under the provisions of this bill, this bailout is going to cost A LOT more than $700 billion.

A careful analysis of the statute shows that your observations are absolutely right. We're not just talking about $700 billion. We're talking about $700 billion AT ANY GIVEN TIME over the next two years. Meaning that, once one financial institution pays off its debts, the feds can lend more $$ to another failing institution, the cycle repeating itself over and over, making the total bailout potentially LIMITLESS. If this bill is passed as is, there is virtually no way anyone could accurately estimate how much this could cost the taxpayer in the long run. It will surely cause an economic collapse, not prevent one. And that's just the financial aspect of the bill. It doesn't even address the blatant unconstitutionality of it ON ITS FACE. They're not even pretending to uphold the constitution anymore.

Look, the last thing I want is to see is my son growing up in a country that resembles eastern europe. We are selling out our grandchildren, if not our great grandchildren. You are right that this is a "shot in the face". I am totally against these buyouts as they're just band-aids on a severed limb. I'm watching my 401K slip through my hands like sand. These buyouts are not solving the problems that got us into this mess to begin with. All I'm saying is that it IS OUR fault that this is happening. We the people let these guys get away with this and they're STILL getting away with this. All the warning signs were there and now that the roosters have come back to roost suddenly everyone is getting upset.

Granted, we're behind the curve on this one. Most people are just now figuring out what's going on here, when we should have been upset years ago. It is my opinion that we hold the responsibility for all of this because we let it happen. No one, including myself, has had the gall to seriously try to stop these guys... IF they can even be stopped. I understand that it is far more complicated that than just that, but look around, my friend, there are Sheeple everywhere. As long as they have their ps3's, ipods, and internet they're happy and clueless to what the significance of our economy's precarious position.

I'm a believer in the N. American Union and this certainly helps pave the way. It won't come like a thief in the night, the people will demand it.
Are they selling AMEROs yet?!?

Damn greedy bastards. (Can I say that?)

I'll say it again, we won't see any change until people go hungry.

one thing I find myself reminded of by all this though not directly similar is how we had the great depression, how all but the most wealthy of the wealthiest succombed to its grip.In the midst of all that poverty,death,and utter disaster, the economy broke and therefore became buyable to those who would care to solidify control of all the bits and pieces remaining.Those people probably went on to be the whispers in the ears of the most influential people in our government as now we see those who recieve such positions of power dont earn it as they should but are given it without fair contest by powers of influence unknown to the commonwealth.I think I see the same form of pattern returning to the American economy now only much more bold and less hidden behind fake happenstance. Whats at stake now? The American economy became owned long ago so what next? eventual subtle (and bold given enough time) consolidation of global economic power to a few names we lack acknowledgment of due to the buffering of "lending institutions","government", and "law makers"?

Well, it looks like we in Kansas MIGHT just have an ally in Senate. At least they're finally realizing what this Administration tries to do with every Bill and Act passed!


Brownback Comments on U.S. Economy

Friday, September 19, 2008

WASHINGTON - U.S. Senator Sam Brownback today made the following statement about the economy:

"I am pleased that the Administration and the Federal Reserve are taking decisive action to address the crisis in financial markets," said Brownback. "As Treasury Secretary Paulson noted this morning, the financial security of all Americans - their retirement savings, their home values, their ability to borrow for college, and the opportunities for more and higher-paying jobs - depends on our ability to restore our financial institutions to a sound footing.

"I am hopeful that Congress will act quickly, decisively, and in a bi-partisan manner next week to pass meaningful legislation that unclogs our capital markets and that puts us squarely on the road to economic recovery. However, we must be vigilant to ensure that we do not reward those whose excessive greed and irresponsible business practices placed the economic future of hard-working American families at risk.

"We absolutely cannot play political games with this issue. Any attempt to use this legislation as a vehicle to advance partisan political agendas would be the height of irresponsibility."

Hey guys, I might not be reading this right, but from what I'm seeing, this allows for some secretary (I don't see exactly which one delineated here) to more or less be able to do government takeovers of (failing. assumed, not defined or implied) banks. A quick (real quick, I'm tired) glance at the reform act of 1990 seems to deal with HUD loans. So is what I'm reading here an attempt to convert over-extended banks and lending institutions to HUD franchises, fo rlack of a better phrase?

Originally posted by Relentless

(3) designating financial institutions as financial agents of the Government, and they shall perform all such reasonable duties related to this Act as financial agents of the Government as may be required of them;

"Government"?

What "Government"?

The "U.S. Government"? The "shadow Government"? A newly formed "Government"?

Anybody else puzzled by the vagueness and usage of this term, "Government"?

Where I'm going with this is that the bailout draft grants powers to a "Secretary" (Czar) that presumably will be appointed by the current President. However, "Government" doesn't mean "Congress" or the "Executive Branch", or even the three branches of the U.S. Government in whole or in part. This is clear because the following negates and form of government oversight or intervention:

Sec. 8. Review.

Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency.

So -- exactly what does "Government" refer to?!!

Also, it's apparent that the current powers that be, Bernake and Paulson, are positioning that Secretary/Czar, mentioned in Section 8 of the draft, to do their bidding should they be replaced by the next administration.

Sec. 9. Termination of Authority.

The authorities under this Act, with the exception of authorities granted in sections 2(b)(5), 5 and 7, shall terminate two years from the date of enactment of this Act.

For two years the new President of the U.S., and the government as a whole, will be powerless to do anything to offset the Section 8 Secretary/Czar. Unless, of course, the new President enacts an executive decision to scuttle the whole thing, which I doubt any President would do.

Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, AIG, and the bulk of bad mortgage owners -- AND the President of the U.S., his administration, and the entirety of the U.S. governmet will all be had by the balls of this new Secretary/Czar for two years.

After the two years has passed, then what?

I urge you all to set aside 3 and a half hours and download / watch this video - it was made in 1995 but lucidly predicts exactly what is going on right now. It plots the history of banking in America and how the Federal Reserve came into being. It is, for want of a better word, a scam, a smokescreen. It was called the Federal Reserve for a reason - to deceive - it is not Federal, and there are no reserves.

The video is called Money Masters - How International Bankers Control America. Download it HERE.

It is simply the best documentary I have ever seen. Every citizen of this world needs to see it. And right now.

Hi,

a similar bank crisis has taken place in other countries as well. No two cases are similar but maybe somethings could be taken from the earlier cases and how they were handled. Here is a short story on Finland got through one in early 1990s:

Bank Crisis Management in Finland in 1990s

Anyone who doubted the true powers that run the country should at this point be thoroughly disabused of the notion that it's congress or the pres or etc.

Funny how the economy is crumbling, food banks in my area are running dry, and BANKS are getting the bailout?

WTF WTF WTF how does that make sense...

So today, I was listening to CNN talk about the bailout.. and someone made a comment about "what about all these people whose homes are being foreclosed on, surely they need some help"

The response? "People need to learn to take responsibility for their actions, you can't just bail out all those people, they need to learn"..

The irony completely, and utterly, lost on those on the program.