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Frightening!!!!!! (Draft Bailout Bill)

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posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 01:08 PM
Ah, but I said it was a win for Bush. The reality for us is a good old fashioned bend over and take the big one in the pooper. We get it if it passes---a bit further down the road (following week, month, quarter or year...depending where the roulette wheel stops spinning) or if it doesn't pass, we get it real soon. Either way grab them ankles or find a way out because the table only has bets for red or black for losers or figuring out what 0 or 00 are for the winners.

But for Bush, this is full of political win and pages in the history book win. If the bill passes or a full clip of ammo if it fails. Because he has "the solution" Congress failed to pass it. Does not matter that this "solution" is full of it.

posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 03:18 PM
... Hopefully this turns out to not be a political win for anyone. But I fear you're right and this could just further deplete the useable income beyond bills people have

posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 03:30 PM
reply to post by Relentless

Jim Cramer was referring to rumors going around in the short-seller rings. He's a proponent of short-selling when necessary, but had heard from short sellers that the recent activity was beyond historic precedent and beyond anything they were doing. From this the implication was that someone or some groups were acting in concert to keep the short-selling going and drive prices to rock-bottom, or basically collapse the market. That's where the "terror" part comes from. What I immediately thought was if there are indeed short-sellers attempting to destroy the stock market they must be well protected, funded, and hidden. As I'm sure you're aware it was all about the demonization of short-sellers leading up to the SEC ban. I think what they were afraid of was buyers with unfriendly agendas gaining significant stakes in major companies.

posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 03:50 PM
You know something has been bothering me since i first read this thread and started replying and i just couldn't put my finger on it until now.

Congress was briefed by Bernanke on Friday and before they were briefed they didn't have a clue what to do and they were just going to go home.

then after they were briefed and this bill was leaked they decided to stay in Washington. I wonder why that is?

1. It could be they knew If they left Washington Bush would use an executive order to get this bill into law. and congress would be powerless to change it to protect the tax payers.

2. Congress has finally decided to stand up to the bush administration and change the bill to add protections to the tax payers and they realized this is not a fix but a very small bandage. and they want to come up with a fix.

3. they decided to stay in Washington to put up a front to make it look they actually care about the taxpayers, But will give King Bush his crown with this bill.

I'll let you all decide which one you think it is.

posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 03:55 PM
reply to post by EtSolveMundi

Is only two nations that have the kind of money and underground influences to do something like that.

Either China or Saudi Arabia and the Emirates.

But at the same time we have to understand that also the people behind the fed may very well be unscrupulous enough to do it in order to get their totalitarian bill approved.

It has to be some kind of desperate attempts or a well planned hoax to do something like this.

This happen when you have stupid people in Washington that will sell their souls to lobbyist and let the nations financial system and the economy be run by private entities.

posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 04:06 PM

Originally posted by Cynic
reply to post by Gools

It appears as though the government is going to nationalize a major part of the American monetary system. I don't think so, I'll tell you why.

While the actions are not cool from the point of view of a conspiracy theorist, the bailout was necessary in order to prevent a worldwide meltdown. The corporations involved are so big and have such interwoven business dealings both in the States and beyond, it would have been a disaster for everyone if they had been allowed to fail.

Had the US government waited to act after the collapse, that could be construed as proof of a conspiracy to control the worlds' money supply.

Were things bad this week - Yup.
Should we be worried about the government buying our mortgage - Nope.
No more so than any other borrower.

If you believe that, than I've got some ocean front property to sell you dirt cheap. It's in Idaho.

posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 04:42 PM
Hi There,


What I immediately thought was if there are indeed short-sellers attempting to destroy the stock market they must be well protected, funded, and hidden.

No. This has nothing to do with 'terrorism', although it is causing financial terror simply because 'short-term' sellers are desperately seeking to off-load stock they do not want to be saddled with and cannot sell. The short-seller will end up owing millions in useless stock no-one wants or will buy. It is this which drove the panic, and I would think the markets are going to get hit again, as some seek to get rid of stock, driving down prices and initiating jittery panic again.

Something that I am concerned about is the idea by Paulson's bill to buy up all the bad debt around the world...debt that is owned by foreign banks and companies (see the link).
Why would they want to do that? Why would the American Treasury take on the world's bad debt? It doesn't make fiscal sense! Are they trying to hide something, retrieve something? If there was a total financial meltdown, what would be uncovered from the investigations that would eventually follow? Foreign banks and companies would not be interested in hiding anything except for recuperating losses, in fact, they might have a axe to grind...unless of course, they could be bribed to be obsfucationary over details. So, the American treasury's attempt to buy the world's bad debt looks something like a bribe for concealment. Of course, I'm just speculating, but not as bad (methinks) as those in the stock exchanges; but something stinks rancid in these proceedings...especially the speed by which they are seeking to push the bill through...

posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 05:07 PM
reply to post by Hakii

I am starting law school in 2009 and happened across your site. Essentially, this legislation gives sweeping authority over PURCHASES OF BAD DEBT made on behalf of the govt, not over any financial institution in general. one thing: TAKING A FEW LINES OUT OF ANY LEGAL DOCUMENT IS A SURE WAY TO CONFUSE YOURSELF, either you understand it in its entirety or you don't, the government buying up bad debt happened during savings and loan-just not on quite as large a scale, excuse this disjointed rambling, hope the basics help-I am relaxing before LSAT's and I'm kind of baked, don't worry too much

posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 05:27 PM
Well so much for bulldozing this through the Congress, it looks like since I started listening in on some of the debating circa Friday or so, the biggest stumbling block was whether mortgages would be modified, ie principal written down or simply have the terms modified, or forbeared in a nutshell would there be provisions for taxpayers and people that own homes to protect them....anyhow, since the last information I saw on CNN that this bill is not going to go through as fast or as smooth as the Treasury Secretary and the President have wanted possibly, in other words all of the rallying done on Wall Street Thursday and Friday were based upon the rhetoric and ideas of a mentioned and proposed bill and plan only that it was made out that it would be instantly rubber stamped and done before Monday and the doomsday that many politicians described they were told could be avoided if they just push the bill with now resistance so it could be signed on the dotted line first thing on Monday.

We all know that something like this no matter how non partisan, cannot happen in such a short time 24-72 hours a Voila instant fix solution because of the complexities, I mean think about it, what if they bail out certain organizations and certain home defaulters or close to foreclosure folks only, what happens to restore value lost for those who made their mortgages but yet this mess caused the falsely inflated home prices to skyrocket then deflate the equity levels in reverse back to 10 or 15 years prior value almost in some areas, what will be done to assist to restore overall and basline value back to homes that went into unprecedented reverse equity, that even in 5-10 years will not regain equity or even break even in principal to the mortgages written according to the inflated market of the last 5-7 years ? also how do localities re-coup the tax revenues that they were getting when home values were up and they planned projects and sold bonds to fund them, there is too much to think about beyond just giving Wall Street and banks more money to lend and just dump the properties in some slush fund or house liquidation dumpster.

Does anyone have any feelings about this situation and what if the amount of money they are asking for does not help ? what happens then ? this plan is so hypothetical in many ways it could only be a band aid especially if there is a huge shoe no one knows about that could drop in the credit card or other sector.

[edit on 21-9-2008 by phinubian]

posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 05:57 PM

Well, just maybe, the word IS getting out.

Taxpayers Lash Out

NEW YORK ( -- "NO NO NO. Not just no, but HELL NO," writes Richard, a reader from Anchorage, Alaska.

"This is robbery pure and simple," Anna from Denver posted on's TalkBack blog this weekend.

"It's our money! Let these companies die," added Claudio from Plainville, Conn.

Is there hope? Are people waking up? Will our lawmakers listen?

Either way this goes now there will be trouble ahead. It is now obvious we are in such dire straights that something must be done. But Joe & Jane Q. Public are beginning to scream bloody murder over this facist piece of garbage they are trying to shove down our throats.

Now we have talk of adding foreign debt to the bill, and even another economic stimulus (Is this one an attempt to pacify the children? Be wary of that one.). In a nutshell though, the markets recovered last week due to rumors of further bailouts as well as the tricky little "no more short selling of financials", both of which contributed to a bigger rise than warranted in the markets.

Now we have the those about to be placed in positions of power that no one man should have screaming that we must fast track this and any changes need to be set aside to do so.

Which way will it go? How are the markets going to take it? Either way, none of us should kid ourselves that no matter what they do now, it has become clear we are in the midst of the worst financial disastor of most of our lifetimes. Pass or not, what we know now is that it's only going to be a bandaid, but their are millions of people hemmoraging at this point and only one bandaid.

I honestly thought that this past week was the most befuddled thing I've ever seen in my lifetime, but I have a feeling now, the next week is going to be the most interesting.

Either way, if any hesitation occurs starting Monday, this is going to be quite a roller coaster ride. They are expecting to pass this by Friday.

I have the slimest of hope now that (thanks to the internet I have to assume) that in 48 weekend (aftermarket) hours the word has gotten out the American people are fed up and we're not going to take it anymore. Do our legislators dare thumb their noses at us? America has been briefed and they are pissed!

posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 06:06 PM
People now have had the time to digest this thing and I have faith in the American people, that is now that the pocketbook has been hit, i have a feeling not many are willing to take this lying down.

posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 06:22 PM
reply to post by Anonymous ATS

I think you are really under estimating the intelligence of the American people. Don't worry too much? This is the most facist piece of legislation I have ever read (and I've read a lot). You're darn right I'm going to worry.

You may be right that you can't take one piece of document and disseminate it out of context, but when it comes to legislation you CAN take one whole section/paragraph and clearly see what it says, in or out of context the meaning is plain and unrefutable. Section 8 of this proposal clearly states what it says on face value, and so do a lot of other provisions. Each section stands alone on it's merit and I see none.

Good luck on your LSAT's sweetie. By the time you've finished that degree, hopefully the rest of us will have reigned in our lawmakers so you have a better world to practice in.

posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 06:31 PM
DOW futures down -181 already...

Tomorrow will be interesting. Get your popcorn!

posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 06:35 PM
reply to post by Terrapop

Thanks for the report Terrapop! We are going to need to watch this.

Has anyone seen anything (news) to account for this yet?


Ah, here we go!

Investor Unrest

BOSTON - A financial crisis being described as the worst since the Great Depression has left investors thinking far beyond the realm of whether it's time to buy or sell.

No matter how close they are to retirement, many are considering getting out of the stock market entirely by shifting to cash or even gold, believing the market is so shaky they're willing to take the potential tax and inflation erosion they'll suffer from a quick pullout.

Others are staying in, even after this year's 14 percent decline to date in the Dow Jones industrial average has eaten away at what they had thought were safe portfolios.

It's not even mentioning the proposal. People are just plain spooked.

[edit on 9/21/2008 by Relentless]

posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 06:45 PM
Well boys and girls just got back from the grocery store. Looks like people here in my neck of the woods are stocking up on food waitting to see how this week pans out. this bill was the buzz while standing in the long lines at the check out.

I got the and some anyone is welcome to come join me for the show this week. and since i know a few people that make there own i even have some

posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 06:59 PM
the two trillion dollar gap explaination:

Conviently, right before Sept. 11, 2001.

posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 07:03 PM

Originally posted by Mercenary2007
Well boys and girls just got back from the grocery store. Looks like people here in my neck of the woods are stocking up on food waitting to see how this week pans out. this bill was the buzz while standing in the long lines at the check out.

Seriously? This is the most encouraging news I've heard all weekend! The word IS out.

It's going to be a rough ride folks, whether they pass this proposal or not. So I say we tough it out on our terms, not the special interests who should be posting bail, not getting bailouts.

posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 07:11 PM
reply to post by Relentless

i'm very serious. i pulled in the parking lot and it was packed, i almost went back home but decided not to. so i walked in the store got what i needed and waited about 30 minutes in line everyone was talking about it. if people didn't know about it already the others we're filling them in.
If congress passes this bill as it is there is going to be alot of noise from the heartland about it.

posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 07:20 PM
reply to post by Mercenary2007

Apparently CNN did a poll and opened a forum to discuss the bill .. and somewhat to their own surprise.. people where up in arms about the whole thing.

Of course, top news story of the day? Emmy coverage..

Anyways, those who understand whats happening, are pissed off, those without a clue are just serenely smiling and going on about their biz.

On thing I cannot stress more to you people ....


Blogging will achieve NOTHING!

posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 07:23 PM
reply to post by Rockpuck

Already emailed my congressman. I politely told them this bill is not a good idea and would hurt this country worse than letting the banks fail so we could start over. and that If he chose to vote for this act of fascism then come Nov. i would be casting my vote to get him out of office.

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