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Backlash Over Bailouts Grows in Congress, Wall Street (Update1)

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posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 06:24 PM
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reply to post by Equinox99
 


One problem with that. The market collapses if we don't act. That means countries drop the dollar and you can't buy a loaf of bread, let alone pay for education.

I hope your a good survivalist with this plan of action, because you will need to be.




posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 06:30 PM
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reply to post by grimreaper797
 


I guess you're right about if nothing is done things will collapse, but this bailout will not fix the problem only delay the day of reckoning while raping the taxpayer and enriching the pigmen further.

Some type of bailout would be mildly tolerable if accompanied by at a minimum indictments, siezures of ill gotten gains, and incredibly tight regulation of the guilty industries. I'd settle for that but what I'd really like to see are the CEO's and politicians most complicit in this swinging from a rope or with their head on a pike.



posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 06:34 PM
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reply to post by jefwane
 


Think of it this way, it give you some more time to prepare for the inevitable we have now been made aware of. It wont save us, it will buy us some time, which is exactly what we need.

We are now aware of the inevitable implications of this situation. If you had a choice, would you choose for the market to crash this week, or a couple months from now? I pick a couple months because it gives me time to use what money I do have to buy essentials for what may happen to occur.

I'm simply not fully prepared for the market to collapse this week, and I would like some more time to get ready for whatever collapse is going to result. Thats why I am for the bill.

Nobody seems to realize just how dramatic life will change, should this bill fail. I am a survivalist, and even I am not entirely prepared for this, should it happen.

The normal american won't stand a chance through this ordeal, which will last into the years range.

[edit on 21-9-2008 by grimreaper797]



posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 06:49 PM
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Originally posted by grimreaper797
reply to post by Equinox99
 


One problem with that. The market collapses if we don't act. That means countries drop the dollar and you can't buy a loaf of bread, let alone pay for education.

I hope your a good survivalist with this plan of action, because you will need to be.


No this means we change our financial system. We might have to go to a barter system till we create another but like you and I have discussed a full collapse is the only thing that will get rid of this FED and the robbery it brings with it.



posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 06:50 PM
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reply to post by grimreaper797
 


I agree here I too am not totally prepared but I would be willing to risk it. I will however with the time this new bailout buys prepare totally. This WILL crash down hard and it will be in my lifetime for sure. I agree I too want to be fully prepared and right now I am not either.



posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 06:54 PM
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reply to post by grimreaper797
 


So almost 18 months after every sub-prime lender nosedived into an empty pool and lots of very astute but without the loud soapbox offered by the MSM started screaming about what was going on. 13 months after the aug 07 emergency discount rate cut.Nine months after the post Christmas into January mini-crash. Six months after the collapse of Bear Sterns and the monolines isn't enough time. Less than 2 months after the CONgress approved the Fan/Fred bailout that was never going to happen. A week after Lehman BK and AIG bailout.There has been plenty of time to prepare for this. Only those who listened to and believed what Bernanke and Paulson were saying think that they can stop this. How right have these two men been since this started? And do you notice anything about the time gap in between govt interventions? The period of stabillity between interventions has decreased from months to hours. At some point nothing they do will stop it and we will all have to deal with it. I'd rather that be sooner than later.



posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 06:55 PM
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reply to post by mybigunit
 


I still don't entirely agree with the idea there needs to be a collapse, but my optimism that there WONT be a collapse is dwindling. I want us to change without some dramatic event that leads to massive damage (deaths, crime, and world wide policy change), but I dont think its possible.

I fear for countries on the border of russia and china. I can only imagine what they plan to do when america is too weak to defend anyone but its physical self.



posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 06:59 PM
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reply to post by jefwane
 


At no point was the collapse certain. There were options, we just made the wrong choices. My faith has dwindled dramatically in the last week. Half a week ago, I believe there were still options to guide our economy into a nasty, but steady, recession that would have been bad, but neither dramatic nor crippling.

Now though, with the current situation, I cannot have the same optimism. I have the knowledge, and some of the tools, should it occur, but not everything I would like.

Make no mistake, in the last two years this situation we are at could have been avoided, and it wasnt till VERY RECENT that we destroyed our options. (these past 3-4 weeks)



posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 07:11 PM
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I have been preparing for months... on hand I have at least 2 years supply of dry food, Rice Beans Potatoes ect. I am also very well armed so yes I feel I am VERY prepared to protect myself and my family from the ravages of what is surely to come.


Sailor



posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 07:12 PM
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Originally posted by grimreaper797
reply to post by jefwane
 


At no point was the collapse certain. There were options, we just made the wrong choices. My faith has dwindled dramatically in the last week. Half a week ago, I believe there were still options to guide our economy into a nasty, but steady, recession that would have been bad, but neither dramatic nor crippling.

Now though, with the current situation, I cannot have the same optimism. I have the knowledge, and some of the tools, should it occur, but not everything I would like.

Make no mistake, in the last two years this situation we are at could have been avoided, and it wasnt till VERY RECENT that we destroyed our options. (these past 3-4 weeks)


This has been building for more than 2 years my friend. Ron Paul has been talking about this very issue for a long time now. Everyone called him a loon and he didnt know what he was talking about. The called Peter Schiff Dr Doom because they didnt think this could happen. Now it is of my opinion that this is being overblown for a continue power grab but I do feel this was a serious situation and is a sign of things to come. This isnt the first time these banks have done this to rob the people of their wealth. This massive bailout is not needed there are other options and still are.



posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 07:13 PM
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Originally posted by grimreaper797
reply to post by mybigunit
 


I still don't entirely agree with the idea there needs to be a collapse, but my optimism that there WONT be a collapse is dwindling. I want us to change without some dramatic event that leads to massive damage (deaths, crime, and world wide policy change), but I dont think its possible.

I fear for countries on the border of russia and china. I can only imagine what they plan to do when america is too weak to defend anyone but its physical self.


Trust me the banks will not go anywhere till a full on crash. Im sorry but they have killed and robbed many of people and started many of wars to keep themselves in power. The central bank is going no where till it collapses and yes it will collapse its not a matter of if but when.



posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 07:16 PM
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Originally posted by jefwane
reply to post by grimreaper797
 


So almost 18 months after every sub-prime lender nosedived into an empty pool and lots of very astute but without the loud soapbox offered by the MSM started screaming about what was going on. 13 months after the aug 07 emergency discount rate cut.Nine months after the post Christmas into January mini-crash. Six months after the collapse of Bear Sterns and the monolines isn't enough time. Less than 2 months after the CONgress approved the Fan/Fred bailout that was never going to happen. A week after Lehman BK and AIG bailout.There has been plenty of time to prepare for this. Only those who listened to and believed what Bernanke and Paulson were saying think that they can stop this. How right have these two men been since this started? And do you notice anything about the time gap in between govt interventions? The period of stabillity between interventions has decreased from months to hours. At some point nothing they do will stop it and we will all have to deal with it. I'd rather that be sooner than later.


Listen Jeff. If you watched Fox Sunday today they had Paulson on and he said it all in one sentence when he was asked " Why did you guys deny this was as bad as it was and why didnt you do anything about it?" and he responded "We needed a good panic to get this done" This is how our government in collusion with the banks work. The get things to panic mode so the sheeple just play right along and tell the government "do anything you need" They did it for the Iraq War, The patriot act, and now this. This is disgusting and congress is playing right along.



posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 07:29 PM
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reply to post by mybigunit
 


I know, I have followed ron paul well before his presidential run. This past year. Thing is, it was never unavoidable, and I had no reason to believe that at some point, we wouldn't wise up and avoid the situation. My perspective has changed some since we have come to face the situation itself now, and still nobody wants to face it. I originally thought that at some point, people would wise up and finally go "ok, lets face the situation before its too late" but it has become that time of too late.

Its now a matter of how much time do we have. I would like some more time, and I have faith that the greed of banker will give us that in their pursuit to stay in power.



posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 07:30 PM
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MBU he really said that? It really doesn't surprise me. Paulson was CEO of Golman before he was treasury secretay, so IMHO he bears blame from even before his tenure as Sec Tres. Taxpayers interest my ass. But "all the ways I hate Paulson is for another thread".

More people are talking about this yet. I haven't talked to a single person who thinks it's anything but a handout to the perpetrators of this mess to begin with.

The potentialities of the fallout from this are astoundingly bad. It's the type of thing that causes governments to fail, massive civil unrest, maps to be redrawn, charismatic (and often dangerous) leaders to arise, and revolutions. I'm afraid if this passes as proposed, it will definately be too late to save the country as we currently know it. It probably already past that point anyway.



posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 07:31 PM
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reply to post by mybigunit
 


Not willingly, I never said that. I meant I felt it was still possible for the people, and congress, to act without massive damage. Now that doesn't seem likely, as its no longer a question of if, but when.

I still think its possible for people to change without this dramatic event taking place, but now this dramatic event I believe will take place regardless of whether or not people decide its time to face it. Its too late for people to change, but that doesn't mean we have to collapse tomorrow or this week.



posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 07:50 PM
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Originally posted by jefwane
MBU he really said that? It really doesn't surprise me. Paulson was CEO of Golman before he was treasury secretay, so IMHO he bears blame from even before his tenure as Sec Tres. Taxpayers interest my ass. But "all the ways I hate Paulson is for another thread".

More people are talking about this yet. I haven't talked to a single person who thinks it's anything but a handout to the perpetrators of this mess to begin with.

The potentialities of the fallout from this are astoundingly bad. It's the type of thing that causes governments to fail, massive civil unrest, maps to be redrawn, charismatic (and often dangerous) leaders to arise, and revolutions. I'm afraid if this passes as proposed, it will definately be too late to save the country as we currently know it. It probably already past that point anyway.


Yes he did really say that. Im trying to find the video on youtube but the Fox interview is not on there. I heard it and I wanted to reach through the damn tv. People wonder why they dont teach money in schools this is why. I educated myself because I could never understand how things worked and now that I know I almost wish I didnt. Ignorance is bliss they say and it really is.



posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 07:53 PM
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Originally posted by grimreaper797
reply to post by mybigunit
 


Not willingly, I never said that. I meant I felt it was still possible for the people, and congress, to act without massive damage. Now that doesn't seem likely, as its no longer a question of if, but when.

I still think its possible for people to change without this dramatic event taking place, but now this dramatic event I believe will take place regardless of whether or not people decide its time to face it. Its too late for people to change, but that doesn't mean we have to collapse tomorrow or this week.


Its not the people Im worried about. I think most people if they knew what the FED was about they would want to give them the boot. Its the FED doing whatever it takes to make sure they stay in power. I mean lets be real here the FED owns this government. There have been several politicians who have advocated getting rid of the FED and they all end up dead. Look at Louis McFadden for example. He wanted the FED gone and even started the process before getting poisoned. They say that JFK may of even been a target after executive order 11110. The bankers OWN this government. We are not a free nation anymore and if this whole ordeal is not proof enough I dont know what to say. Once again RP was some conspiracy nut when he talked about this 5 years ago but now that people see this is happening you see RP on ALL of the news stations. To bad they didnt give him this much attention during the primaries.

[edit on 21-9-2008 by mybigunit]



posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 08:07 PM
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Originally posted by Ameneter
Isn't it ironic that these same corporations that want the taxpayers to bail them out of their bankruptcy were the same ones that pushed for more stringent bankruptcy laws for these same taxpayers? Where it has become harder for the ordinary taxpayer not only to file for bankruptcy, but even after filing he is still responsible for his debt? Correct me if I'm wrong.
Star for you.

This may just become my new sig. It's so painfully obvious now, I can't belive I missed this great bit of irony.

Maybe somebody can answer this question for me:

Why can't we take all this money and bailout the people instead? Take the same money, buyout their mortgages and debt. The banks get their money, the people get out from under their debt, and turn around and use the money they would've spent paying off their debt and buy american goods, thereby stimulating the economy? Everybody wins?



posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 08:23 PM
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reply to post by 2stepsfromtop
 


It seems my optimism was killed a lot faster than I expected
. All I was trying to say is that we could have had the SHTF right around Wednesday of last week without the bailouts. People would have instantly been hit, hit hard. Instead we buffered the system. I knew that time was short, I was hoping, before the bailout bill was introduced, that someone, anyone, would start to call for heads to roll and we could launch an investigation before it got worse. So much for that. It's looking more and more like we were either f****d right then (no bailout) or f*****d in a few days/weeks, as most of ATS is arguing. So what I'm getting to is:

If this bailout bill is the solution they are offering, then I admit the bailouts were a farce and I was wrong. If the people won't demand accountability and the government won't offer a real solution, let it crumble. I have nothing to lose in the money markets, I was just hoping others could realize what was happening in time and call for a real remedy, averting the crash and the further damage. Nope? Let it crumble. Consider me converted.



posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 08:52 PM
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reply to post by grimreaper797
 


Here is what supporting this "bailout" is supporting:

www.youtube.com...

www.tickerforum.org...

www.tickerforum.org...

This "bailout" is pure fascism and is going to simply prolong the inevitable by putting the bill on the United States taxpayer. It is sick! Taxing us with inflation and a 700 billion initial and possibly up to 2+ trillion burden is madness.

I'm in pure agreement with those who agree that these banks deserve to fail and need to take the crash! They are the ones who gave the balloon mortgages and loans to people they knew could not possibly afford them long-term. They were the deceivers who sacrificed US citizens for their own gains. And it is happening again with this bailout! They are literally sacrificing American citizens by placing the entire tax burden on themin order to bail out banking corporations.

[edit on 21-9-2008 by Bugman82]



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