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Congressional Leaders Stunned by Warnings

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posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 02:20 PM
Ron Paul's deregulation economic concepts are what got this country where we are in the first place. Asking for more of Ron Paul's ideas is like asking for more of what is killing us. The free market concept does not work. De-regulation of the banks is what has created this mess.

McCains willingness to admit that reguation of the financial sector is exactly what we need. What Clinton did right was regulating industry in the way that government was supposed to do, to enforce that laws.

What the econony needs to run properly is an evenly enforce, fair set of rules to create a competitive environment, not a free for all where anything goes as Ron Paul advocates.

posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 02:28 PM
reply to post by poet1b

No, you do not seem to understand, once the dollar is whiped off the slate the inflated GDP stats of your paper economy will be irrelevant. It's all just numbers on a screen and you hardly produce anything of any real value anymore, being down to agriculture, IT and Boeing these days, as far as exportable items go. Oh, and armament, but I would be glad to see those industries go broke, but they won't of course, always a lot of business in death.

It's going to be one hell of a rough awakening.

posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 02:41 PM
reply to post by Zepherian

Well said. It brings me no comfort to know that we won't be alone in a collapse. The world will return to manufacturing capacity and resources as value. As you stated we left most of that behind as we became a service based economy. Our ability to 'consume' is over and the rest of the world will quickly forget us after the initial shock.

posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 02:49 PM
reply to post by HimWhoHathAnEar

We won't forget, as we will be saddened by your predicament and worried for our own financial systems. But we will fight to stay afloat and should be able to survive till our own debt monsters arrive, later rather than sooner I hope.

As for me, I am already thinking of securing assets out of the financial system. I hope I manage to do so in time.

One thing I will say though, there is a fair bit of Karma being paid here, by everyone.

posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 03:09 PM
reply to post by Zepherian

You forgot tractors, industrial equipment necessary for production, instrumentation, most of the necessary critical components for the manufacture or computers, a great deal of the world's oil, most of the equipment necessary to drill for oil, critical support systems such as chillers for industrial de-humidification necessary for clean room production, a very large portion of the worlds medical technology and the equipment to conduct research into these areas, and produce drugs. The list goes on and on.

You also keep ignoring that a large portion of the products being built by U.S. companies in third world nations are destinied for U.S. markets, and without the U.S. markets, the profit margin drops to a negative number, so those factories will shut down. All those people who lose their jobs will not be able to pay their bills, and so the economic crisis spreads, at essentially the same speed it will spread throughout the U.S..

It is obvious that you hate the U.S.. Too bad, the U.S. has done a lot of great things for the advancement of technology. Don't hate us for being on top, it does you no good.

posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 04:43 PM
reply to post by poet1b

It is not obvious because it is not true. I am against the elitist controlled US foreign policy and against fractional reserved banking based economics, because they are fraudulent. I am saddened that the american people will suffer hardships, unless some miracle happens and the nation actually gets run by people that know what they're doing and are not greed motivated. The comment about karma is you guys have learned to live with a permanent war economy... and this is the price to pay. Sorry. Many world nations have lived through and paid for the same reality, mine included.

All of your product examples are available elsewhere, or by american corporations trading and manufacturing abroad that will survive the cull. Japan alone can pick up the slack on everything right up to aircraft, probably inclusive since they already make a significant portion of the carbon fibre used in the 787... and so on and so forth. The idea that the US is somehow economically irreplaceable just is not true, I am sorry, but it is not.

Again: if we in the rest of the world fail economically, something which I admit is possible, it will because of debt issues related to fractional reserve banking, it is not for the loss of the chunk of the economic world market that the US represents, which is easily being outperformed in growth by Russia and east asia. Russia recently became europe's biggest car market, outperforming Germany. So guess who will be getting all the mercedes, bmws and audis if the US can't import them.

The failure of the US economy to the rest of the world, as far as actual physical goods are concerned, would only mean a slowing down of the economies. It is the financial ramifications of a corrupt system that could potentially crash the whole system, but that is a beast of financial engineering, it's an agenda, not a natural consequence.

posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 05:41 PM
reply to post by poet1b

I've watched you and Zeph have a back and forth for a couple of pages now, and both of you have valid points.

I might point out that everything on your list that you claim "only america provides" is actually also built, designed etc in other regions too, notably Europe.

You seem to be under the impression that only the US has the technological and industrial capacity to produce said items.

Some of the largest (and most profitable) automotive, aerospace, pharmacutical, computer and telecoms firms are European in origin.

Having said that, a collapse in the US consumer market would have a significant impact upon trade around the world. The EU and the US account for a combined total of world GDP of almost 60% and each are each others largest trading partners.

The trade balance is heavily in the EU's favour, mind you, showing that as far as the EU is concerned we do not need your products, but rather your custom. That is where your collapse would impact us, not because we will no longer have access to your products, but because you won't be able to buy ours.

Also, you might think US companies are something to be proud of, but a significant portion of them are foreign owned, at least in part. A sizeable chunk of us DoD contractors are tied to BAe, for example. A sizeable chunk of the US energy production market is owned by the UK's National Grid, for example. if you suddenly go down and we lose your "high technology", we'll just bring it home

posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 08:23 PM
orangetom great post on page 9

those chicago school boys have taken over and F$%K$FD it all up

and yes the media is very clearly the tool to keep public uprising down and ignorance up

a economist linked below pointed out how much balogney hank paulson/media shove down sheeple throats

a few days ago Paulson says financial system is "fundamentally sound" then e days later TSHTF and he and Bernanke tell congress "the financial system is going to implode unless they bailout the housing market" dragging down the economy and perhaps the globalized world as well... like they just figured this out last week LOL.

here's a link from the blog of the above mentioned economist "mish shedlock" and with it is a list of senators who we may wish to contact and make sure this bailout bill is not "RUSHEd thru congress as fast as possible" as bush seeks dictatorial powers and so they can F$%* up something else.

is anyone going to stop those in the financial sector as they gain more and more leverage over washington politico's as they have already made the u.s economy more dependant on debt (and finance) then in our history. It takes over 5$ in debt to generate 1 $ in "GDP". The finance insurance and real estate sectors (fire economy) have been overwhelming the industrial sector for decades and the disparity is growing. THE wall street con men are selfish and don't care ABOUT YOU.......GET IT?! and they have control of the media COMPRENDE? they have most congressman in there pockets $!$ and the revolving doors between those holding postions of public sector oversight and private sectors CEO's = the fox's guarding the hen house............bueller .................

when did sheeple start trusting politicians, were we taught to? is it media brain washing.........i mean isn't it obvious they will try to take advantage of every single situation and the people of the U.S need to get with the program and keep them in check

[edit on 21-9-2008 by cpdaman]

[edit on 21-9-2008 by cpdaman]

posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 08:31 PM
I'm currently listening to the Jim Marrs interview on the Alex Jones show, 21st September. His interview, which ties the current administration to the world elites, through National Socialism and through occultism, makes a good backdrop to the current crisis and the hows and whys of financial collapse and governmental wealth apropriation by fascists.

There is a history to learn here, and those that don't will learn by experience as it swings around again

posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 09:44 PM
reply to post by stumason

The trade balance is heavily in the EU's favour, mind you, showing that as far as the EU is concerned we do not need your products, but rather your custom. That is where your collapse would impact us, not because we will no longer have access to your products, but because you won't be able to buy ours.

That is the exact point I have been trying to make all along. The even bigger problem, for the world and the EU is that the Asian rim is even more dependent on the U.S. as their customer. This is why they have been willing to buy so much U.S. debt, because they need the U.S. consumer to keep their markets going.

While Z wants to greatly downplay U.S, indutrial capability, the truth is that what other countries are able to supply is not the problem. For a long time now, production capablility has out stripped demand, except for oil. In reality if the U.S. markets collapse, the cost of our products will come down, making us more competitive on the world markets. The problem is that it is the loss of the U.S. consumer that will bring the markets down the most.

What people over look that is just as significant, is that the rest of the world is far more urbanized than the U.S., which makes them far more vulnerable to a world economic collapse.

posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 10:07 PM
When we go down, we won't be worried about the rest of the world.

Consumption does not require America. It's population is dwarfed by that of Asia. The fat guy who thinks that everyone needs him because he can eat alot, is seriously delusional. When he has his heart attack, you guessed it, the world goes on.

posted on Sep, 21 2008 @ 10:55 PM
What got this country out of the depression? WW2. Guess what the plan is to get us out of this coming depression. A lot of us knew this was coming and the plan isnt to correct our markets and make life better for the american people. Crisis precipitates change.

posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 01:16 AM
reply to post by poet1b

Ron Paul has been talking about all of those issues for some time now. He has been talking about solutions to our economic woes for years. His solutions are not all linked to deregulation while allowing the economy to progressively deteriorate as it already was. His proposed solutions to the antiquated economic system which is ruining this country are much more revolutionary than simple deregulation.

I already talked about this before.. But in a recent congressional hearing (dated 7/10/08) he made no bones about the fact that regulation is part of the problem and that we need MORE regulation in order to maintain some kind of integrity with regards to market discipline and the Federal Reserve and that MORE regulation on the government itself would be a good thing (which it would be).

But more regulation is also not the long-term answer to the problems we are seeing now and he always points this out. Pretty much anyone who cares and pays attention to our economic situation knows this anyway.. The long term solutions to the current economic problems are NOT lower interest rates, more regulation, more inflation, and more "money out of thin air" as Ron Paul so aptly states in the hearing.

I posted the youtube vid of this earlier on.. But here it is again.


[edit on 22-9-2008 by BlasteR]

posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 05:19 AM
reply to post by HimWhoHathAnEar

Yes, Asia's increasing consumption would easily pick up the US consumption decrease, so while we might have a mild recession, without the credit problems there is little in the way of real economy, actual goods and services, to be worried about. This is not downplaying the US problems, it's fitting them in to the world economy, which is not a stagnant bunch of economic relations, rather a flux. And these days the flux is west to east.

Again: what worries me is the financial system, the dry up of credit in our monumentally dishonest debt based currency systems. But that is not because we need the US economy, that is because the elites are fraudulent and are conning us with the fractional reserve system, suckering us into a debt monster economy.

posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 06:56 AM
reply to post by Zepherian

If the Asian rim were to raise their wages so that their demand would raise, and they wouldn't be dependent on U.S. consumers, then the problem would go away. Then again, the cost of goods produced by China would also go up, and their trade advanage would go away as well.

A big part of the trade imbalance is that Japan and China keep their currencies low in relation to the U.S. in order to maintain a trade advantage. U.S corporations love this because it provides them with cheap labor. This is the primary cause of the whole problem. To keep the system running, extremely loose credit has been provided to U.S. consumers. This is the reason we are in this mess.

Either you people get it or you don't. When the whole system collapses, the average U.S. citizen is going to be affected a lot less than the rest of the world. We are not the among the nations that are grossly overpopulated. The rest of the world will be a lot more stunned than the people of the U.S..

posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 07:00 AM
reply to post by BlasteR

Ron Paul wants to sell our nations public assetts to private corporations. That would be the worst thing we could do.

A great many people have predicted this current situation. I have been expecting this for over a decade now, since 1997, along with quite a few others on the web that I have read. Paul does not lead the pack. He is a free market guy. There is no such thing as a free market.

Evenly enforcing a fair set of rules is what needs to be done.

posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 07:37 AM
reply to post by poet1b

I get it. But what I am saying is the crash will not be because we can't live without the american consumer as you started off claiming, it will be because our monetary system crashes due to excess debt. And contrived made up debt designed to rob us at that.

Sure, if you want to talk post meltdown, the US people are blessed with a big country and natural resources. So is Brazil. So is Russia. So is much of Africa. So is Australia. So is Scandinavia. So is Argentina. Etc. Everyone will feel it and most countries will have the resources to get out of it, if the monetary system collapses. But it won't collapse because of the US, it will collapse because it was designed too. And we'll cross that bridge if we can't find a detour from it. And do realise we'll have trouble crossing it, because these crashes are designed to end up with fascist governments and police states to repress the people and collect on the fabricated debt, so the elite gain more resource and power.

Listen, if the US can't sort itself out by itself, it won't be the rest of the world that is going to bail you guys out. After 8 years almost of bogus war on terror and the rise of a fascist police state, there is little there to salvage. We, at least as peoples, lord knows what our governments will do, but we as the majority of our peoples in the rest of the globe, will not be worried about the US, because we don't like what the US is doing on the international stage. And indeed if the US depends on our goodwill to continue to have an economy to be the world's police, then you can kiss your economy goodbye, because internationally, thanks to Bush and Cº, that goodwill has ran out. How do I know this? International family of emigrants, nation of emigrants, we have our finger on the pulse of the world.

During Katrina much international aid was offered, and it was all rejected and replaced with the FEMA pre fascist cluster****. It is time for you guys to realise that if you want to articulate with the other peoples of the world you have to grow out of this indoctrinated "USA USA USA" nonsense and start behaving like adults. The rest of the world does not need the US. The rest of the world does not want the US to walk all over it. The rest of the world dosen't care for the dollar. We have our own problems to take care of, our own localised elitist powergrabs.

We do care for your people. And at that level we, the good populations of the world, not our governments but forcing them, would help if we could. But you have to let us. And part of letting us is realising you are not above us, but equal to us.

The American Volksgeist needs to grow up.

This is not about conflict. This is not about competition. If we are all to have a future we need to accept higher ideals, like cooperation, peace and respect of truth and indeed of each other. And real, local, participative democracy. If these things become common we can whip the world economy into shape. It's easy, it's just getting rid of fractional reserve bankind and rethinking the credit system to serve the majority, not the tiny minority of elite parasites.

No ofense, but there's a bigger underlying problem here than international trade deficits or superavits.

posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 08:17 AM
reply to post by Zepherian

The same people that control the US control the rest of the countries, this has nothing to do with political parties, military, or which side you pick.

This is about a few elite at the top controlling for a very specific purpose. And that is to keep the masses in fear, chaos, and their eye of the higher purpose here on earth.

posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 08:29 AM

Originally posted by Benarius
I am not sure, but doesn't this kind of comment even more aggrevate a run for the banks. If I had any money, I would take it all out tomorrow. And so would probably everyone else who read this. I really hope this doesn't create any panic on the streets tomorrow. This is so far the worst fear-mongering publication I read during this crisis.

Do they really try to create a mass hysteria on the streets ? Wy else would they write something like that ? This is very scarily weird !

No no no. It's just a 'figmant' of our over active imaginations. Seriously. As a well pronounced Texas republican (not Paul) has stated recently. WE are creating this with our imaginations!

Actually, it's very real and has been coming for a VERY REAL LONG time. If you close your eyes and hug yourself and say you want to wake up it simply won't change things. Even if you did go to the bank tomorrow and took every penny out it wouldn't help you. Why? Because if this does not get fixed soon (and I'm not talking about printing more fake money out of thin air and bailing large companies out) then the dollar you will be drawing out won't be worth too much. Everything will have to come to a halt and that is when we will see who is truly on the side of the people in politics.

We need to get RID of the Federal Reserve (central) banking system. Our forefathers knew this. That is why they made it part of the Constitution for CONGRESS to print and control our money. Not the rich bastards that could give a crap less if families are destroyed and people starve to death. It's been cycling like this for centuries up and down. Eventually the people have ALWAYS rebelled against the central banking system and overthrown it. It's a simple matter of researching history.

For people to think that it is NOT about greed (the greed of the banking families that keep bringing this system to the people) is to simply embrace ignorance.

posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 08:42 AM
reply to post by Zepherian

So what are you saying, all the problems of the world are because of the people of the U.S.?

The Asians, and the Europeans, and the Middle Easterners, and the Latin Americans don't have their share of blame for this coming international economic crash?

Yeah, the U.S. is sufferring from the same crooked bunch who are bringing us this economic meltdown. I think your blame is pointed in the wrong direction. Do you think communist China has a better plan?

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