LHC transformer malfunction

According to the news, it was the cooling transformer had failed just 1 day after starting it up last week.

GENEVA - The world's largest particle collider malfunctioned within hours of its launch to great fanfare, but its operator didn't report the problem for a week.

In a statement Thursday, the European Organization for Nuclear Research reported for the first time that a 30-ton transformer that cools part of the collider broke, forcing physicists to stop using the atom smasher just a day after starting it up last week.

CERN had not reported any problems with the project since its launch Sept. 10, but issued its statement shortly after The Associated Press called asking about rumors of troubles.

news.yahoo.com...

[edit on 18-9-2008 by damefool]

I'm not suprised there was a malfuction. It is one of the most complicated devices ever created. The part that bothers me is that the operator didn't report it for a week.

I'd be incredibly surprised if everything went according to plan on it's first run.

The amount of pin point precise calibrations that have to be made just to direct the proton beam, let alone accelerate it near light speed whilst doing so is baffling!

Transformers go... so much power, so many coils, so tightly wound... all it takes is the very thin insulation of one wire to wear just a bit... and bang, arc through it, fuses, shorts, and there goes the breakers.
... most of the time it's caused by heat... which is slightly ironic considering this one was powering a cooling unit. But not really.

They must have been on a tight deadline. A week of forgetting about a transformer that didn't pass inspection, he was obviously pre-occupied with a demanding and heavy workload. As everyone is.

The guy doesn't deserve to be fired, just reprimanded.

Mistakes are made, the lesson being, don't let it happen again.

I'd rather work with someone who's made mistakes, than someone who has yet to.

... I could go on with a story about a co-worker who boasted he never got electrocuted, and then one day... but... that's another story.

[edit on 19-9-2008 by johnsky]

I'd like to know exactly when (date/time) the LHC was shutdown. A really bizarre thing happened to me yesterday.. I was sitting my living and a spark came flying at me, went thru my jaw and kept going thru the window for about 10meter before it disappeared out of sight. Coincidence?? Maybe I imagined the whole thing, but it looked damn real to me. I live on the other side of the planet from the LHC, but if there where particles emitted, could they have gone astray? It was about 3pm central, and it was perhaps the strangest thing I have ever seen in my life. Maybe this damn thing isn't so safe afterall.

Is that even possible???

A spark coming out of nowhere and going through someone's jaw???


That must be imagination and not related to anything esle right??

[edit on 19-9-2008 by Mrrrr]

I saw a spark traveling through the air on two separate occasions.
One traveled toward me about 3 feet along the top of my brothers couch.
The other traveled about 2 feet toward me above my old monitor.

The sparks were like bluish orange and about the size of peppercorn. The speed was about the speed of a human walking slow.
Way before the LHC.
What a weird thing to see!

reply to post by Mrrrr

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Yeah, dude... I might be nuts but I told me girlfriend about this when she got home and at the time I admitted to her that it could have been my imagination, but it was a small spark smaller than a pea glowing orange/white and it had a trail behind it, and it was it was moving fairly fast and in a straight line.

I was not really thinking of the LHC until my girlfriend texted me that in the news this morning that they had a malfunction with the electronics which I assume is responsible for containing the beam within the collider.

Now I do have reason to believe it was a figment of my imagination... because I was reading about that guy who was hit with the proton beam and it passed thru his head front to back and it didnt kill him... and it was linked to another story about the experiments performed on the Apollo missions where they were measuring cosmic radiation passing thru their brains/retinal nerves. So admittedly this was something I was thinking about as I was reading it. But II definitely saw this spark traveling thru matter (my house and me). Might sound crazy, but thats what happened.

I am not a fear monger at all, I am actually the biggest advocate of the LHC and science in general, but this does make me wonder about the power and safety of the machine. (if that was even the cause of this spark)

Hrm, looks like if this isn't part of the same issue, they have even greater problems:


Source:
news.bbc.co.uk...

A "quench" almost sounds like a good thing...almost.

I can just hear all the french/swiss firefighters all running around sounding like the chipmunks.

[edit on 20-9-2008 by 4N6310]

reply to post by 4N6310

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It is a little disturbing the LHC Homepage News makes no mention of the shutdown. Matter of fact.... no news since September 8th?? Whats up with that?

Anywayz, thanks for the BBC news link. Says



Wonder what a quench is? Doesn't sound good. Says there was a ton of Liquid Helium lost, and loss of vacuum. Hope the Cern Fire Brigade can control a ring of fire. At this point we must sit back and question the competency of those involved in this project.

I am all for scientific progress, but now I just waiting for sparks to fly.

reply to post by mapsurfer_

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Cosmic radiation

I immediately thought of the cosmic radiation experiments although id say its highly unlikely, thats just a small link i couldnt find the photos ive seen before of the helmets, you may have faulty electrical equipment or as you said just imagination. Doubt it would be LHC related.

reply to post by mapsurfer_

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Well, the article goes on:

...and the quench:


Makes me think of what a blacksmith does to metal when they dunk it in water.
That can't be good for the magnets. I've got some experience with thermal effects on rare earth magnets and as we've all learnt from NIST, heat weakens magnetic attraction in molecules. So I ended up with a paperweight instead of a motor after getting it to about 121C. Let's hope the LHC magnets don't need replacement. I'm sure it's a fairly different kind of magnet anyways.

There's more information on quench tests here:
larpdocs.fnal.gov...

Kinda technical, but the "LHC QPS Overview & Status 04.pdf" on that page has some graphs that appear to indicate a gradual reduction in quench efficiency each time.

I'm not quite sure why they have "quench heaters" when they are trying to keep the magnets cold. Maybe some kind of thermal pumping technique?

[edit on 20-9-2008 by 4N6310]

reply to post by mapsurfer_

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Sound to me like you and Toadmund are describing a form of ball lightning, that can be pea-sized, orangy in colour and leave a trail. Its a naturally occuring phenomenon and can pass through solid objects.

Read here for more info en.wikipedia.org...

[edit on 20/9/08 by woogleuk]

reply to post by johnsky

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the first or your post sums it up well

give cern a break, they have only built the largest, most advance ever to grace the earth, it stands to reason it wasent going to "just work"

anyone that is trying to critisize cern for this needs to go out, and try building their own super advance machine without anythgin going wrong. It stood to reason that with a machine that big it wasnt going to be completly plain sailing, as nothing is when building anythgin from scratch!

Apparently now it won't be operational until next spring.





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