TERRORISM: Hamas Founder Sheikh Ahmed Yassin Assassinated

They should have arrested him.
Nobodies happy about it, the Arab League predicatably very angry.

Originally posted by John Nada
I've got to the point where I'm tired of hearing about it now. Both sides are idiots, I just feel sorry for the innocent civilians.
It's got to the point that I hope they just nuke each other and let that be the end of it, it's never going to stop. Bloody religion!!!

I hear ya John. Im tired of all this bull# in the middle east. Jews and Arabs killing each other. This recent move will likely backfire on Sharon Big time. We should let both sides Nuke each other and wipe themselves from the planet so the rest of us can go on living in peace. These people (and I mean both sides) need to get their # together and work things out........ LMAO!! Yeah like that will ever happen.

Hey I've got an idea. Seeing as how Israel is so fond of walls, why don't we build one? We'll build one big giant dome around the war-mongering parties and the deal is it doesn't come away until things are resolved or there is one or no survivors.

This is why we need space exploration. So all sides can leave Earth and colonize some other rock, indpendently.

Viewing Yassin as "an old man in a wheelchair" is a tragic mistake made by someone who clearly doesn't have any international experience, which is pretty pathetic. A UK government official should know who Yassin is, and based on his own writings and opinions it's fairly clear that he's far from a harmless old fellow.

Arresting him is simply impractical. Just as much trouble would have been caused by the Israeli government rolling troops in to arrest Yassin. The same reaction would have occurred. Statements would have been put out by Hamas et al. saying that Israelis will die until Yassin is released etc. etc. This is a fairly straightforward pattern in the region. If any action was to be taken against him, the reaction would be similar regardless.

Now to the point that I think is important here regarding the situation itself. The reaction coming from many Israeli officials is an interesting and sad one. The militants are saying that because of Yassin's death they will unleash hell on the Israelis. The Israeli response to this is "what do you call what we've had until now." The fact is that Israeli civilians were being blown up fairly often pre-Yassin's death. So the numb reply is "what's different now? you were killing us before as well"

Very sad situation but I don't think there's any more fear now in Israel than there is on a regular basis for the past 3� years. At least from the people I spoke to anyways.

Originally posted by Bob88
Where's the international condemnation when a member of Hamas steps on a bus, detonates an explosive and kills a bunch of innocent Israelis? Yassini was a major player in this game. When Rehavam Zeevi was assassinated, do you remember an international condemnation? No? Me neither. And Zeevi was just a tourism minister while Yassini is responsible for the death of children.

Great point Bob88. It baffles me why people outside of the Arab world would be upset by removing a terrorist leader.
Unless their comments are made out of fear. Hoping that if they side with Palastine,they won't get attacked. Which is still no excuse in my book.
I think this was long over due. Bet Arafat is taking a good look over his shoulder know.

There is never condemnation of Palestinian terror operations. Ever. There is rhetoric that sometimes comes out at the time which is always very careful to criticize both sides for the "cycle of violence". On the other hand when Israel conducts an operation like this one, the condemnations are clearly against Israel, not both sides, have nothing to do with anything the Palestinian side has done to lead up to this and generally has very little if any factual reference. This can clearly be viewed in Straw's statement calling Israel wrong for killing an old man in a wheelchair. Sounds fair.

Yay! Let's KILL him, that'll teach those Palestinians!

And I'm sure they won't react violently! So let's do it! Go Israel!



Uh, what do you mean that now Palestinian militants will go bonkers and start killing Israelis any way they can?

Hmmm, totally didn't see that coming.

So let's just say that by KNOWING what the result will be from the Palestinians, Israel is COMPLICIT in their deaths by assassinating this guy in the first place.

So Israel doesn't care that their own citizens will die as a direct result of their military action.

I've seen plenty of condemnation of Palestinian attacks -'sickening act', 'blockade to peace', 'self defeating' 'terrible crime' etc, etc amongst all the other meaningless platitudes that are rolled out for every one, though of course it's always from European and the western nations and not the Arabs. I posted the international reaction just because it�s relevant and I was surprised at the swiftness of the negative U.K reaction especially. Jack Straw has the experience and he knows very well who he was but the 'old guy in a wheelchair' comment is a little strange though it might be out of context, I've still to see the full statement. The difference in the strength of countries condemnations usually differs for those of a terrorist and of a state, as a state is meant to be seen as more �responsible�, but that�s a different argument.

Originally posted by Jakomo
So let's just say that by KNOWING what the result will be from the Palestinians, Israel is COMPLICIT in their deaths by assassinating this guy in the first place.
So Israel doesn't care that their own citizens will die as a direct result of their military action.

then you should admit, Jakomo, that this will work both ways: Palestinians should also know that should Hamas blow up an Israeli bus the IDF is coming to town, and if you live in a house with a terrorist, it's getting bulldozed. It's obviously a two way street here, and definitely a dead end street.

I�m with John N. and Ocelot; I'm getting tired of it too. I think if the major parties, such as the EU, UN, and US were to disengage from this conflict, funding an all, perhaps both sides would shape up and realize they can either figure it out on there own, or in order for the big parties to engage again, more so the funding part, they need to quit this malarkey.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
more...

www.haaretz.com...
Hamas: Sharon has opened the gates of hell
Hamas leaders vowed Monday to "cut off" the head of Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, after their spiritual leader Sheikh Ahmed Yassin was killed in a missile strike by Israeli helicopter gunships in Gaza City.

"Sharon has opened the gates of hell and nothing will stop us from cutting off his head," leaders of the radical Islamic group vowed.

"Words cannot describe the emotion of anger and hate inside our hearts," said Hamas official Ismail Haniyeh, a close associate of Yassin in Gaza. He said that "the enemy should expect a response that will turn the ground under his feet to hell ... All of Palestine will turn into a volcano that will burn up the enemies."

To me this sounds like the press minister for Iraq, the Comedian IMO, what was his name again. The americans will have their burning guts spilled on our streets, look we have already pushed them away from the airport, the american dogs. hahahahhah

Yassin was already arrested back in 1995 or 1998 I believe and was released in a some sort of treaty with the palestinians several years ago. This "man" personally ordered the death of hundreds of innocent civilians. If they really wanted political change then they should go after the political structure. But they are indescriminate killers that deserve to be dealt with in the same fashion. Israel choose to dispose of Yassin in a manner that was by far more than required as a sign to those that wish to carryon in the footsteps of this evil man. YOU will not be simply shot or arrested YOU will be BLOWN to bits by a $50,000 missile aimed with the intent of blowing you apart just as you have killed others by using 100's of pounds of explosives to maime and terrorize the jews. Expect anyone else to to be delt with in a similar fashion. They tried killing him before but he escaped. This time he was not so lucky. The difference in the israeli goverment and hamas is that israel killed him with the intent to rid the planet of an evil individual and hamas kills people who have nothing to do with the conflict for the sole purpose of terrorizing both the goverment and the people that support the goverment. Instead of pleading for compassion they kill without compassion for the families they have destroyed. And for this they pay till the end of time.

Bob88: "then you should admit, Jakomo, that this will work both ways: Palestinians should also know that should Hamas blow up an Israeli bus the IDF is coming to town, and if you live in a house with a terrorist, it's getting bulldozed. It's obviously a two way street here, and definitely a dead end street."

The only problem with that is that you need to add "militant" or "fanatic" before Palestinian. When a militant or fanatic Palestinian commits a terrible act of suicide bombing, the REPERCUSSIONS are performed by the 5th most powerful military in the world on a captive 3rd world population living in the largest open air prison in the world.

The repercussions are felt by the dozens, even hundreds of Palestinians who suffer under the COLLECTIVE PUNISHMENT meted out by the IDF.

When ONE Palestinian wacko kills some Israelis, the response by Israel is COLLECTIVE. Jetfighters, missiles, etc, raining down on neighborhoods and traffic jams.

When Israel responds, they use disproportionate power. Maybe because they're total cowards, maybe because they're lazy, the reason isn't as important as the effect.

You see that?

Uh, what do you mean that now Palestinian militants will go bonkers and start killing Israelis any way they can?

Please tell me how this differs from what the situation was until now. Were there no murders of Israeli civilians going on before Yassin was killed? Do you think that because there isn't an Israeli civilian murdered every 15 minutes that means that they're not trying? You're quite mistaken then. So what is the deal? Now the militants "will go bonkers"? So what? Like they weren't before? The Hamas charter, penned by Yassin and Co., calls for the removal of anyone Jewish from the entire region. Not just the "occupied territories". The charter calls for attacks on Israelis and does not distinguish between civilians and army. The charter was followed by that group before Yassin's death as well. You are insinuating that things are going to happen as a result of his death and forget that this group has been doing crap like that for a lot longer than that.

From Israel's standpoint the purpose of this attack was not to "piss off the militants" it was to chop the head off of Hamas and at least force them to take time and regroup because their leader is gone, and maybe by removing a maniac like that (with apologies to those who still thing he's a little old man in a wheelchair) maybe the next person who takes over would have some interest in working with everyone else.

Hamas didn't even follow the PA and strongarmed them on numerous occasions. Anytime the PA and it's president tried to make headway towards peace someone from Hamas derailed it. At the urging of - you guessed it - the little old man in the wheelchair.

So maybe his death will throw Hamas into confusion for a month. Maybe there won't be as many suicide bombings in that month. Maybe there won't be any raids by the IDF into Gaza that month. Wishful thinking maybe.

Here's what I see Jakomo,
You use the same old tired Amenesty International argument of fighting suicide bombers with tanks, planes, aircraft carriers, missiles, etc.
Seems that you have the Israelis do "what" to defend themselves against such acts of terrorism Jak?
Stand and continually allow it to happen, cause please Jak, it ain't going to stop!
Would you have the Israelis strap on bombs and do likewise to the Palestinian's? First off, that ain't going to happen. Palestinian "martyrdom" doesn't apply to Judaism, likewise, neither does it apply to Islam. Suicide bombing is strictly forbidden, maybe?

Israel reserves the right, just as any other nation does, to use whatever measure they deem necessary, to protect themselves, with whatever means at their disposal. Use descretion you then say? Bah, seems that those that strap-on the "I'm going to be a martyr" bombs need to learn descretion? That for every action there is a not so necessarily equal and opposite reaction?
IMHO, tissues are good for what?



seekerof

[Edited on 22-3-2004 by Seekerof]

jakomo, so what? Are you saying it's 'unfair'. Like you said, Israel knows the result to which I said so do Palestinians. Each time 10-20 Israelis get blown up it repercussions aren't felt by hundreds of Israelis that just lost a family members?

You make it seem like everytime there's a suicide bombing Israel carpet bombs the west bank.

But I guess Israelis should be thankful they aren't experiencing those 'traffic jams' you speak of

When ONE Palestinian wacko kills some Israelis, the response by Israel is COLLECTIVE. Jetfighters, missiles, etc, raining down on neighborhoods and traffic jams.

When Israel responds, they use disproportionate power. Maybe because they're total cowards, maybe because they're lazy, the reason isn't as important as the effect.

One wacko being sponsored and supported by a militant group led by Yassin. Don't you dare make it out like it's a lone wolf each and every time. That's bull# and you know it.

And explain to me how a rocket attack on Yassin is disproportionate to rocket attacks, double bombings in Ashdod and setting off explosives on a bus. 7 people were killed in the Yassin attack. 10 were killed in Ashdod. Please elaborate on the disproportionate attacks by the "cowardly Israelis" again. It's looking a little gray right now.

By the way Jak, you have balls of steel to even claim that the Israelis are cowards for using what they have at their disposal to protect themselves, because you know as well as I do that if Hamas or Islamic Jihad got their hands on a larger scale weapon, for example a dirty bomb, they'd set it off right in the middle of a nursey or a shopping mall.

[Edited on 3-22-2004 by Djarums]

the problem with blowing up figureheads of terrorist organisations is that you inevitably enlarge the pool of potential suicide bombers available to a group such as hamas. as yassin stated, if you kill one leader, one hundred more will rise to take his place. the policy is therefore monumentally self-defeating.

logically the only way to effectively deal with a terrorist threat is through negotiation. terrorists are not merely murderers: they have a cause. admittedly it is difficult to negotiate with an openly anti-semitic group such as hamas, but by persuing policy more based on diplomacy than military, the palestinian people will be more likely to see a future for their country without israeli occupation.

the only solution is bipartisan disarmament. and that means the next time hamas calls a ceasefire, ariel sharon should abstain from his military campaigns against hamas/palestine.

bolshevik, i agree with you entirely!!

however two problems come to mind.

1) yes if there was a ceasefire Israel should stop operations, however the ceasefires are negotiated by Israel and the PA and hamas is not in the habit of following the PA.

2) yes negotiation is the ONLY way to stop this bull#. however, every time negotiations seem to be going somewhere members of Hamas et al do everything in their power to derail it.

The problem isn't the Palestinians or the Israelis, the problem is the groups of lunatics who have shown - through their actions and their timing - that they have NO interest in peace whatsoever. (for evidence of this, research terrorist attack dates recently which "coincide" with meetings between Sharon and Quriea every damn time. It's a small group of maniacs, but their mission is accomplished every time the meetings get called off. Sadly, the citizens of Israel and the Palestinians suffer needlessly because of this.

I found this to be a intersting story concidered what was put on ats this morning take a look.

White House Denies Involvement in Hamas Death

news.myway.com...|top|03-22-2004::08:10|reuters.html

I find that very convient being what was posted here this morning.

Falcon

From the Looks of it the white house has had to work overtime this morning.

this is truly a no win situation for all parties involved. There will never be an absolute consensus on how to resolve the issues that have been facing the Israelis and the Palestinians. Both sides have committed crimes against each other and both continue to do so. Israel has a large part of the blame on its shoulders and so do the Palestinians.

Yassin was indeed a terrorist, forget the wheelchair, the man hated Israel and opposed peace.

But all I want to know is what happened to covert operations, sniper attacks and such....did they really need to bomb him to bits? and again what will Israel strategy be, when a new figure step forwards to lead Hamas, will they assassinate him too?

For those who bring up the suicide bombings...I am not taking sides here, but unless we live in the shoes of a Palestinian, we can never understand why they resort to suicide attacks.

But if Palestine had an army, missiles, tanks and weapons of conventional warfare that rival that of Israel's, they would have certainly used them already.

I think they resort to suicide bombings because they do not have many other options when it comes to combatting the Israeli military, so they aim for the soft targets of civilians. Face it people, those two nations are already in a war.

terrorism has no clear definition, Israelis civilians who die see it as terrorism against them, and Palestinians who have their homes destroyed also see it as terrorism. It all depends on which side you are on and what you choose to believe.

off on a tangent here, but society is teaching us, that if anyone disagrees with us, they are a terrorist and we should go kill them, because terrorists all deserve to die. Forget trying to change the situation or correct the problem that causes the hatred, just kill them all. (it's truly a sad world we live in, especially since this particular conflict is over frickin land)