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is every Meier photo a fake ?

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posted on Sep, 26 2008 @ 02:30 PM
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Originally posted by Jeremy_Vaeni
reply to post by yeahright
 


What if--and far be it for me to suggest anyone in this thread fits the mold--but what if the person is clearly delusional?

Am I allowed to say, "You are clearly delusional as demonstrated by your inability to tell a real living dinosaur photo (which doesn't exist) from one out of a children's book (the exact match to Meiers')?" Would something like that not actually be an objective example of delusion?




And exactly to what end would we be striving? Do you think you're going to be able to convince a (hypothetically) truly delusional person of anything via an anonymous forum post? Do you think anyone else on the forum really needs you to point out who's delusional and who isn't, in your opinion? Do you have any credentials that make you an expert on who's delusional and who isn't? We don't need it, we don't want it, and it's against the T&C.

I don't want to further derail this thread. If you really need that much clarification about the rules, please feel free to u2u me or any other member of staff or submit a complaint/suggestion via the Member Center.

Discuss the material and not the member. No personal attacks, no name calling, be civil. It's really that simple.

Back to topic, please- "Is Every Meier Photo A Fake?"




posted on Sep, 26 2008 @ 02:47 PM
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reply to post by yeahright
 



Perhaps we should apply all that as well to members who bait others with nothing more then personal smarmy innuendo remarks, obviously uneducated statements, and a refusal to acknowledge proven issues.

Then when that baited member replies, he's wrong for putting such goading members on ignore so he doesn't have to listen to the same record play over and over.



posted on Sep, 26 2008 @ 02:48 PM
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Originally posted by gib_niner
1. the dino shots are IN NO WAY an exact match - NOT AT ALL - it is absurd to say that they are...


They are an EXACT match. To say otherwise is absurd. I just found this image:

[Go to i36.tinypic.com... to see the full image.]

As you can see someone created an outline of the "real" Meier photograph and placed it on top of the real illustration. The images line up.


Originally posted by gib_niner
2. also on the issue of the RBG color dots that would undoubtedly be reproduced if the image was taken from a cathode tube.. neither round nor square colored light dots can be observed which are still common on TV monitor tubes even today. Once again...this invalidates, therefore, the claim that the pictures were photographed from a TV monitor.

Also..Not until July 1976 did Billy purchase his first color TV unit (brand SABA) from Mr. Bär's Bauma store, whereas the photos of Asket and Nera were taken a year earlier, on June 26, 1975.


So, you don't believe Michelle DellaFave when she says that the photograph that Meier says is of Asket is really a picture of her? You don't believe Lee Elders when he says that Meier provided all of the material used and published and that Meier was so happy with the publication that he asked for 200 copies of the book? That's a level of absurd denial that even Michael Horn won't go to.


Originally posted by gib_niner
Also - in regard to meier's still totally irreproducible film segments --

there is the following in huge abundance... realistic contours, realistic light levels being refracted - very very realistic aerial perspective - a way of pulsing that is wholly realsitic and believable..displaying levitron attributes or that of hutshinson effect even.

... to show the impossibility of arriving at this filmic realism using strings and so forth - watch the following video ( AT roundabout scollbar 4:40)

ie.youtube.com...

This segment serves to NEGATE any prospect of wires - be they horizontal or vertical or whatever - as this kind of steady & uniform movement that is going CONSISTENTLY left and right & left and right without deviating - is certainly impossible to effect using strings or wires - as strings and wires would introduce an element of inconsistency and uncontrollableness and DISUNIFORMITY to the whole shoot.



Please keep in mind that the Meier films have NEVER been transferred to videotape properly. The only versions that exist are from a camera crew videotaping the projection of the films on a screen. The quality is so low as to be useless for any really detailed examination.

I have personally offered to pay for brand new, properly conducted, high definition transfers of the original movies. So far, my offer has not been accepted. I work professionally in the post production film and television community in Los Angeles. I know where to go to and I'm willing to pay for this out of my own pocket so that we can finally put some of these issues to rest. To use the current versions of the videos to determine the propulsion capabilities of the objects is just ridiculous.

-Derek



posted on Sep, 26 2008 @ 02:49 PM
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reply to post by yeahright
 


Alright not to flog a dead horse here but why is it offensive to call someone a name but not offensive to keep a thread going by goading someone as is often the case on ATS? Isn't that more insidious because you've always got plausible deniability?



posted on Sep, 26 2008 @ 03:05 PM
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reply to post by Jeremy_Vaeni
 


Moderators try and maintain the T&C and maintain civility and decorum, but at the same time they do their best to be as transparent as possible and to maintain the content of the posts.

People are responsible for their own posts, and they need to try and de-escalate and not provoke, even when provoked, and they also have to fight their own battles.

I don't think Members want a totally sterile playing field, do you?

(If people can't use evidence and a bit of humor to get the job done, well, they're not very clever, are they? With a bit of intelligence you don't have to resort to name-calling and it's not effective. Evidence-based commentary speaks for itself.)

Please play nice people. The staff is monitoring this thread closely.


-Badge01
Forum Moderator.

[edit on 26/9/2008 by Badge01]



posted on Sep, 26 2008 @ 03:11 PM
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reply to post by Badge01
 


Indeed we are, and I'm a little miffed at being able to go to the Bay Area UFO Expo...




posted on Sep, 26 2008 @ 03:25 PM
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Originally posted by jritzmann
reply to post by yeahright
 



Perhaps we should apply all that as well to members who bait others with nothing more then personal smarmy innuendo remarks, obviously uneducated statements, and a refusal to acknowledge proven issues.

Then when that baited member replies, he's wrong for putting such goading members on ignore so he doesn't have to listen to the same record play over and over.



"Personal smarmy innuendo remarks" are against the T&C. Uneducated statements and a refusal to acknowledge proven issues are not. Baiting is controlled by not taking the bait. Goading is best ignored.

Any time you feel someone has violated the T&C, please alert the post. We're not going to catch all of them, and that's just the nature of a site that moves as fast as this one does. We're not going to clean up a mess by throwing a bigger mess on top of it. And hopefully this answers the questions and from this point forward all off topic inquiries can be handled via u2u or submitting a Complaint/Suggestion via the Member Center.

Further off-topic in-thread inquiries or requests for clarification subject to deletion.



posted on Sep, 26 2008 @ 03:46 PM
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Originally posted by Badge01
reply to post by Jeremy_Vaeni
 

(If people can't use evidence and a bit of humor to get the job done, well, they're not very clever, are they?
[edit on 26/9/2008 by Badge01]


That's true, which is why I try to frame all of my "hurtful" comments in sarcasm.

But you know, enough about this stuff. It was childish of me to call someone a bad name. I apologize. Let's get back to the adult world of arguing dinosaur photos and Plejaren women.



posted on Sep, 26 2008 @ 05:06 PM
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reply to post by Jeremy_Vaeni
 


Yeah. Good idea. Then I can go blog the "injustice" of "critiques" regarding my work.



Good lord...it's enough to make ya lose your hold on reality.



posted on Sep, 26 2008 @ 05:21 PM
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reply to post by TerraX
 


Oh that's real simple right? They just used Billy's photo in the book.


LOL...



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 12:30 AM
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gib_niner are you the same as "Batdancer" in this thread!!

www.thebiggestsecret.org...

Because all those points you tried to illustrate were destroyed by Starglider over and over and over again.

Here is the thing about people defending meier's photos. Meier himself said that all photos in earlier publication were faked by MIB when he saw that they were too ridiculous looking he came out with that excuse. So those photos posted here and all over the net are faked. So these people posting the so called good looking pictures of meier's are posting pictures that meier said was faked my MIB, then for those people that think those photos are real , they most also believe that meier didn't have any contact the real contact was with the MIB as they made those photos. IRONY!!

Can't be picking and choosing with those photos, they go so far as to say meier was forced to do fake? for the love of god!! and then say he survived 21 attacks!!! IRONY AGAIN!!! a guy surviving that can't be forced to anything.... also how a prophet with friends in higher places (aliens) was going to be force? didn't he see that when he saw his future? Come on!!

keep it up derekcbart, you are doing a nice work there. You and others basically destroyed horn this time, showing his misquoting, I don't get that after seeing that some people still believe him it's embarrasing really. In this thread www.thebiggestsecret.org...
Starglider pointed out (great observation indeed) that in the new dvd, horn tried to edit
the moving/stopping branch in the ufo that supposedly disappears.
amazing it doesn't show full, if after seeing that people still don't understand what this is all about, there is not hope for them.



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 01:12 AM
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Originally posted by Balez



Then this statement is what exactly? ...lot of effort to produce evidence...

Just what it says a lot of evidence being produced on both sides... Hard to determine WHICH is the "Cult" The believers or the debunkers... The zeal is equal in both courts




posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 09:59 AM
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first of all in response to Aspie - NO not at all - taken from any of Horn's sites - some of the viewpoints i have raised have been gathered together from various other sources - essentially from having put in the extra work - ie willing to go the extra mile - something that by all accounts - judging by the majority of ATS comments on the case - most ATS members dont seem to be bothered doing at all!



Am I allowed to say, "You are clearly delusional as demonstrated by your inability to tell a real living dinosaur photo (which doesn't exist) from one out of a children's book (the exact match to Meiers')?" Would something like that not actually be an objective example of delusion?




regarding dino shot..the following must be contemplated -

Ok then, In regard to the Saurian pic - look for example at the head. Namely, the top profile of it. Notice how in the illustration the profile is concave (the forehead/eyes part is recessed in relation to the horn and the top of the beak. In the photo the opposite happens. The skull/forehead is much bigger than in the illustration and stands out, making a convex line.

By flipping between the images in the computer it becomes very clear. Notice also how the neck is thicker and the belly is bigger in the photo while other distances stay the same.




Look at the upper line of the lower jaw:



Another thing: It is clearly seen that the one on the right is a drawing. The same can't be said of the one in the left. It could be a photo of a more accomplished drawing, though. Or a photo of something else. the following explains this a bit better...

clearly a drawing


Photo of that drawing


Photo of ?????



to CONCLUDE... whatever is going on here in respect to saurian picture - admitedly the whole thing is a bit bizarre - to say the two are an exact match is just absurd....

The ‘time travel’ one has a comprehensively larger chestal blaze, (i.e. highlighted area), so much so it reaches down to the stomach area.

The ‘time travel’ one has a comprehensively larger crop, (i.e., pouch area between beak and neck).

The legs are different, their arch much more strongly curved, much wider.

The snake is completely different, too, longer, differently oriented and curved in space.

One can instantly see the resemblances between it and the pic in the book are at best superficial, when one is to go over the two of them with a magnifier set at three and in false colour mode, one is shocked to see how the image in the book becomes not only monotone but even more flat and lifeless, particularly the serpent, (poorly rendered), whereas the false coloured ‘time travel’ serpent is in fact somewhat more vividly, almost perhaps 3-dimensionally, rendered.

Ultimately what all this potentially shows very clearly is that all this talk about Meier’s pictures being obvious and crappy fakes is could well turn out to be complete and utter CRAP itself.

but most important all - is that EVEN if the dino pict was an exact match (which i might add - IT ISN'T!) - it still would do nothing to undermine the undenianle strength and huge impressiveness - of the varied other meier material evidence - particularly the film/video footage - which is in fact in spite of what anyone tries to hoodwink you into believing - is of an extremely high calibre to say the least - indeed just in its own league one might say - and is just one of the many many reasons - that the case is unlikely to die down any time soon.

[edit on 27-9-2008 by gib_niner]



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 02:16 PM
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reply to post by gib_niner
 


I know it's probably not any idea to try but.....



I believe this is something to do with the scanning technique used on the image itself.
First of all to draw any conclusions about the "dino's" size compared to other pictures or scans taken from that book you need to know the resolution that was set on the scanner, and to compare they have to be the same resolution.
So all the measurements and everything is kind of useless.


So, now for the inconsistencys (sp?) on the pictures that has been used to compare to with Meiers "dino" pictures


With this one..


Here the question is not only about scanning technique.
But also how the picture was taken, in what kind of light, what exposure, how it was developed.
All of these are factors that can change an image alot.



One can instantly see the resemblances between it and the pic in the book are at best superficial, when one is to go over the two of them with a magnifier set at three and in false colour mode, one is shocked to see how the image in the book becomes not only monotone but even more flat and lifeless, particularly the serpent, (poorly rendered), whereas the false coloured ‘time travel’ serpent is in fact somewhat more vividly, almost perhaps 3-dimensionally, rendered.

And this you can judge, even if you count in all the factors i've mentioned?



but most important all - is that EVEN if the dino pict was an exact match (which i might add - IT ISN'T!) -

Ofcourse it isn't an exact match, you need some more "exact" data to come to such an conclusion.



it still would do nothing to undermine the undenianle strength and huge impressiveness - of the varied other meier material evidence - particularly the film/video footage - which is in fact in spite of what anyone tries to hoodwink you into believing - is of an extremely high calibre to say the least - indeed just in its own league one might say - and is just one of the many many reasons - that the case is unlikely to die down any time soon.

I can agree with you on that, it wont die down any time soon.
I have still not seen any videos that can stand up to being tested, and not fail.


[edit on 27-9-2008 by Balez]

[edit on 27-9-2008 by Balez]



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 02:31 PM
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according to what ive read about billy... I would have to say yes.. all of his stuff is fake.. and he is in just for the marketing of his stuff.. people love this stuff.. and he knows it.. and he gives them what they want..



posted on Sep, 28 2008 @ 10:58 AM
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hey derekB,

Yes of course the image is of Michelle - but
the Asket/Nera photos were originally manipulated by photographer, Mr. S., who was coerced and threatened by the MiB (Men in Black).

To reiterate - The reason the photos look similar to the "look-alikes" on the Dean Martin show, according to Billy's statements, is because stills from the TV show footage (I assume copies or internegatives of frames from the actual film footage itself) were superimposed over the true photographs of Asket (and Nera) taken by Billy Meier in June of 1975. The fact that it was somewhat "well-executed"--if we can call it that--would not only make it possible for Billy to mistake these fake photos for his own over all these years, but would also allow for them to be matched to the TV show ding-a-lings by some careful observer. Although this photographic feat admitedly more difficult in the pre-digital age - i suspect not at all impossible for anyone with both the motive and resources at hand. Indeed there is a lot that can be done outside of realm of the digital.

Indeed very recently - i have come to know of new info in relation to the specific circumstances involved in the the production of this forgery...how the Ding-a-ling girls were purposely made to have certain clothing and also deliberately made to have the locks of hair curling in order to achieve that longer earlobe effect - so the net result being that more and more it is without doubt pointing towards it that certain definite efforts were made by the people involved - (even now names are emerging - ie persons who would have access to the exact original duplicated frames from the original Dean Martin episodes) in respect to how everything was orchestrated in order for this major stroke of case discreditiing was entirely masterminded from the word go.

In any case...and to reiterate...If these photos were taken from the Dean Martin Show, then the photos must have been made directly from the original tape as they don't show the known blue-red-green dots from a tv screen.

If the photos were made off the original videotapes, then it means Billy was a member of the production staff of the show, which is obvioulsy quite ridiculous.

It's hard to believe that Billy took these photos from a TV monitor. He is very smart - why would he risk his mission using photos of known artists who could sue him because of using their image? Indeed the more one dwells on this the more it becomes the height of utter preposterousness that billy would go to these extra-ordinarily huge lengths to produce perhaps the most convincing ufo film & video footage ever seen yet still in spite of all that would be guilty of commiting the most asseine and idiotic blunder of taking photos of people randomly of a tv screen - and to serve them up as being the extraterrestrials themselves - these two actions do not sit beside each other very well at all - in terms of the intelligence of a person and his or her tactical maneuvring (if that is they were involved in fakery) there could never be this kind of huge enormous discrepency!

Also...believe it or not - i have had some contact with Michelle de la Fave myself - although without doubt she came across as a very kind and sweet woman, who really didn't know much about Billy and the mission or even the fact that she was regarded for so many years to be the doppleganger of Asket - also what i picked up on is the fact that she seemed to be a devout Christian and thus believes in JEsus and evertything that comes with that. What is most probable in this situation i would envisage is that she has become somehwat wary of the whole matter and her position of being embroiled in it all - and thus wants to wash her hands of it - when i was in contact with her in 2007 - she had just released a new jazz album - (is good by the way) - perhaps she feels it is the case that involvement in this highly controversial fringe ufo case could serve to interfere with her life & career.



posted on Sep, 28 2008 @ 11:00 AM
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reply to post by derekcbart
 


Also, anyway this notion of the superimposition of images over the true original ones that billy took - to my mind - is the only way of adequately explaining the highly peculiar & bizarre facial discrepencies that are in effect - with respect to the photo comparisions.

[edit on 28-9-2008 by gib_niner]



posted on Sep, 28 2008 @ 11:15 AM
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by the way...(on somewhat more neutral ground here) Is it possible that sympathy should be extended to somebody who is "stuck" trying to prove / disprove this type of thing...

ANYTHING whatsoever can be "dragged through the proof mill" to where almost nobody would know what really happened... or where EVERYTHING is being questioned... I like to think of this as being: "where truth turns into politics"... !

I also find that an accurate representation of the Meier case contains enough “strange material” to repel those who are influenced by disinformation, anyway.

It seems as though: the (few) individuals who are “meant” to study the information will do so, regardless of how much or how little effort is put into “convincing” them. Simply informing people about “the information” seems to be sufficient, & then to let “nature take it’s course”. The people themselves will sort out the disinformation, if they are inclined.

finally my point of view is very simple really - i just dont think any of the problem areas (ie areas that highly contentious & problematic admitedly) even when added together are not strong enough to topple the remaining overwhelming evidence in support of the case - and therefore think that folks should be taking the case way more seriously - instead of for example always shooting from the hip and screaming "foil, foil foil, tin foil" when they see the laser beam photo - especially for example when it is to be considered that time and time again - when the credible and most crucial witnesses were interviewed in regard to Roswell - the ones who had themselves direct contact with....the crash debris itself, well they kept describing material - that.... best way they could describe it was - very closely comparable or matching up precisely with 'foil' or even 'tin-foil' like material - perhaps it is the case as a culture gets more advanced the materials that get produced or manufactured nearly always end up resembling foil in that very synthetic way or least have some foil-like attributes - anyway sorry, definitly going on a bit of a tangent here but just something else to maybe illustrate my overall point - that perhaps people should really be taking the case a bit more seriously...instead of always mindlessly screaming...'foil foil' or...dinasour-dinasour!, or pleaidian babe! - as if by the very mention of the word or words - that it conveys some notion of the very ridiculous, when perhaps in reality this should not be the situation at all.

gib out.



posted on Sep, 28 2008 @ 11:52 AM
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Hello Gib.

I'm sorry, but there are so many factually incorrect statements in your last statements that I don't think it is worth trying to correct them for you. You obviously believe completely in the claims made by Billy Meier and are unable to be swayed by whatever critical evidence is presented. At the same time there is nothing that you have presented that has had any influence on my research due to the numerous logical fallacies that have been used.

At this point I think we just need to agree to disagree.

-Derek



posted on Sep, 28 2008 @ 12:11 PM
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reply to post by gib_niner
 


Sorry to kind of "butt-in" here....



Yes of course the image is of Michelle - but
the Asket/Nera photos were originally manipulated by photographer, Mr. S., who was coerced and threatened by the MiB (Men in Black).

And there is any evidence of this, other than Mr. Meier's "say-so" ?



In any case...and to reiterate...If these photos were taken from the Dean Martin Show, then the photos must have been made directly from the original tape as they don't show the known blue-red-green dots from a tv screen.

Not specifically true.
They could have been taken from a magazine that featured the dean martin show.



It's hard to believe that Billy took these photos from a TV monitor. He is very smart - why would he risk his mission using photos of known artists who could sue him because of using their image? Indeed the more one dwells on this the more it becomes the height of utter preposterousness that billy would go to these extra-ordinarily huge lengths to produce perhaps the most convincing ufo film & video footage ever seen yet still in spite of all that would be guilty of commiting the most asseine and idiotic blunder of taking photos of people randomly of a tv screen - and to serve them up as being the extraterrestrials themselves - these two actions do not sit beside each other very well at all - in terms of the intelligence of a person and his or her tactical maneuvring (if that is they were involved in fakery) there could never be this kind of huge enormous discrepency!

Please U2U me if you have anything that IS NOT faked by this man, and it can be proven and veriefied by other sources.
As of yet i've not found anything that is genuine from this man.
If you have something that is genuine, please share it.




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