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Originally posted by syeager9
I am still a little confused about how fdr records long/lat/altitude data. If it does it at all. I was looking through a number of sites, found FAA requirements for the fdrs, but I didn't find anything related to position tracking. Pitch/yaw/bank/position of controls, etc., yes. But nothing about the geographical position of the plane. So question remains: How did they obtain the position of AC with millisecond accuracy? Radars? We know they sweep slow and can only give us direction and distance that are not very accurate. Altitude detection radars in ATC system were decommissioned long before 911, as they switched to using transponders exclusively.
I still remember the antenna on Newark International Airport that was sweeping up and down (altitude radar) in 80s. Then mode C came into the law. Even for little Cessnas. Then they they promptly took this radar down. So there is no way FAA can detect altitude without transponder.
[edit on 19-9-2008 by syeager9]
Originally posted by Reheat
No one here is. It is a very small and very specialized field, so outside of the NTSB and the FDR Manufacturers there are very few true experts.
I don't think it a matter of belief. This whole thread and theory is based on the data gov. gave us. And I simply doubt the accuracy. They didn't have any means of obtaining anything with enough precision to calculate the exact path of the AC. I can agree that with what is used, the pull out of the dive will be impossible, though I didn't do the math myself. However with inaccurate data this theory worth nothing.
Originally posted by ULTIMA1So why don't you believe what information the NTSB, maunfacturers and experts have shown?
A source close to the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) who asked to remain anonymous when asked about the " ongoing [black box] investigation, " told us that "the NTSB never closely examined the cockpit voice recorders (CVRs) and flight data recorders (FDRs) recovered from American Flight 77 which hit the Pentagon, and United flight 93 which crashed in Pennsylvania. " This, while the FBI has continued to quietly dodge vexing questions related to its prior knowledge of the 9/11 attacks and how the Bureau’s widely-reported inept and mishandled information protocol cost so many lives.
The source added that “the [CVR and FDR] tapes were sequestered by the FBI and quickly taken to its Quantico, Virginia labs where analysis was conducted solely under the Bureau’s influence in order to maintain complete control.” However, according to the individual with knowledge of the investigation, “there were a few NTSB officials allowed to observe, but their influence on the probe and tape inspection was minimal at best.”
We also talked to Michael Thompson, chief engineer in the CVR/FDR division of Allied Signal-Honeywell Corporation in Redmond, Washington -- according to his counsel, Mark Larson.
We asked Thompson if he was the person in charge of flight data recovery in the 9/11 investigation, since Honeywell manufactured the data recorders in operation on all four Boeing jets involved in the September 11 crashes. “I cannot answer that under advice from legal counsel,” he said.
Since his legal counsel, Mark Larson of Tempe, Arizona, was unavailable for a conference call, Thompson told us, “On advice of my legal counsel, I cannot answer any legal questions pertaining to that incident.” [On November 19, 2002 at 12:16 pm, Honeywell transferred our initial call to Mark Larson, corporate in-house counsel for Honeywell, who in turn told us to contact Michael Thompson regarding any questions we might have about the 9/11 CVRs and FDRs.]
When we asked Thompson if he had ever seen or been involved in any recovery analysis of the 9/11 CVRs or FDRs, he stated, “That’s a legal question, and on advice of counsel, I cannot answer any of those questions. You need to talk to Mark Larson about this.” [This surprised us, because we are aware that the memory chips from which the NTSB and/or FBI tapes are derived is raw data and cannot be manipulated. Thus, the “ongoing criminal investigation” excuse could result in either obstruction or suppression of fact.]
As a matter of fact, ABC news reported on 9-13-2001 that “Although investigators look for an entire black box, sometimes the only parts of the device that survive are the recorder’s crash-survivable memory units (CSMU). The CSMU is almost indestructible. [A former NTSB source told us that only a direct hit from a nuclear blast can destroy it] ABC also said that “it is housed within a stainless-steel shell that contains titanium or aluminum and a high-temperature insulation of dry silica material.”
Originally posted by Craig Ranke CIT
Sorry man but since you are unable to view the presentation you are unable to understand the model, the formula, the equations, or the situation here in full in order to have an informed discussion on the matter.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think you are trying to use a 1 dimensional formula to solve a 2 dimensional problem.
Are you calculating based on 1 velocity vector or 2?
Are you figuring both the horizontal and vertical velocity vector to get the total velocity vector or no?
Furthermore are you basing your calculations using altitude, vertical speed, and considering the g forces reported by the NTSB?
Originally posted by Pilgrum
I don't arrive at anything remotely like 34g or even 10g, not even 5g
I will try to view the presentation sometime in the future to see what's going on here (or there).
Originally posted by Reheat
reply to post by johndoex
This is really getting hilarious.
Everyone, please take note.
johndoex = aka Cap'n BoB of pffft posts an NTSB document in hopes of convincing readers that the impact time of AA77 was calculated in a precise and accurate manner.
BUT, in the OP he is accusing the NTSB of providing manipulated, faked, erroneous or __________ data which in his words "Provides information which does not support the Government Story".
What a contradiction!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!