Who would like to be a vampire?

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander



Depends on what period of writing your talking about they aren't always portrayed as simply lusting after blood and sex...


Peace Justice

reply to post by v01i0


I contemplated this aspect as well.

I came to the conclusion that the "vampire" is a metaphor or archetype that represents the Ego devoid of the accompanying "soul" or higher aspect of Self. Pure Ego, unrestrained by Conscience, and driven solely by the appetites and desires of the flesh.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
I mean that the classic vampire from myth has no capacity for love.

I stand corrected

But nevertheless, the point remains on unconditioned love. No vampire is capable of showing it. At least IMHO. Of course, I don't personally know any vampires, but judging by their, actions I've come into such conclusion. And I am talking about 'metaphorical' vampires - not the mythological ones.

-v

[edit on 18-9-2008 by v01i0]

reply to post by ...and justice for some


True. The more romanticized vampire has been softened considerably from the ancient myth of the creatures that rise from the grave to feed upon their own families and neighbors.

I suppose we should have been told which "sort" of vampire we were considering, the more modern romanticized version, or the older version that had people out digging up graves and staking corpses.

reply to post by v01i0


I would agree that unconditional love would fall into that category for certain.

In the older versions of vampire mythology, they didnt truly love, they seduced. Like a modern sociopath, they would charm, romance, and persuade others to love them, not because they shared the sentiment, but to make feeding upon them easier.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
[...] The "vampire" is a metaphor or archetype that represents the Ego devoid of the accompanying "soul" or higher aspect of Self. Pure Ego, unrestrained by Conscience, and driven solely by the appetites and desires of the flesh.

You hold pretty much same conception as I. I would only add that they are certain types of 'black magicians', meaning that they know the tricks how to affect people's minds.

-v

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


So myself being totally human love my girlfriend unconditionally and very much. so do you think if i was to bitten by any type and changed into a vampire i would loose that?

I myself think that true love is strong enough to save even a souls creature.

peace

Justice

reply to post by ...and justice for some


I would doubt true love, is something that is so pure, that can save you from certain things.

reply to post by ...and justice for some


With that said it's hard to find unconditional love amongst pure humans as well. People can say they have unconditional love but when your looking down the barrel of a gun does it really matter?

I don't have much of a problem with Anne rice. Not much of a fan of her books. She's done both good and bad for the vampire community. She has created many goth vampire wannabe ideologies by representing a sexually appealing view of the vampire. This is both good and bad and can be summed up with the reaction people get when they see my fangs. 50% get nervous and/or think I am a druggy. The other half are truly intrigued. The intrigued ones being women in the majority...

There are many different theories and approaches to where the vampire myth truely originated. There may be several true explanations considering the span of the belief from carrying cultures...

I can't believe I just wrote all this on an itouch...

Originally posted by ...and justice for some


So myself being totally human love my girlfriend unconditionally and very much. so do you think if i was to bitten by any type and changed into a vampire i would loose that?

This is going to be probably more than you wanted for an answer, but there is no short good answer to that.

I would say that as a human, that which gives you the capacity to love unconditionally is your "soul." (I use the word loosely, there are better terms but for this discussion I think it will suffice.) I think all of our "souls" are sort of what God or the Divine breathed into the dust to make it human and alive. (Again, very loose and sticking with Christian terminology because most of us know it, Christian or not) So, in essence, your "soul" is like Gods breath, it is an instance or aspect of the Divine itself, it is your natural immortality that survives the body.

A vampire, then, would be someone who has "died" and that soul or Divine gift has fled the body. But, the mind, and the body remain "undead." Not alive, but not dead either. However this form of "immortality" living as "undead," comes at the expense of the immortality conveyed by ones soul, that part of one that connects it to the Divine. In the other form of immortality, that conveyed by the Divine or God, you may have lost your body, and your memories that were stored in the mind at death, but the essence of "you" your soul, would have gone on. To what, is up for debate. The vampire is so attached to the body and mind, they will not risk that transition, and so the soul is given up. But with it, all of the qualities we attribute to being Divine. Love, compassion, humanity.

What remains is only hunger. That which loses its connection to the Divine is unbearably hungry for that connection again, but can never again have it, and so it seeks to fill that hunger with the things it CAN have. The pleasures of the flesh. Drinking the blood of others is in a sense trying to replace that essence that was lost, that soul that was traded to remain the same forever. To gain for some small moment that feeling of fullness that only ones soul can ever provide. However, even if the vampire gets some small taste of that connection again while feeding, it is fleeting. And so it must kill again and again.

So the short answer is "No." Your love for your girlfriend would not survive your becoming a vampire in my opinion. (And it is just an opinion, I am sure others will disagree) because the part of you that CAN love, the part of you that was a gift from whatever deity or Divinity you might believe in, was given back to that Divinity when you "died" and became a vampire. What is left is not truly you. It has all your memories. Your body. But none of the essence or soul that made you truly YOU.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


I cannot but respect your comprehensive answers again, my friend. What you typed about love and dying/death just hit the point in my opinion. I never thought it in such way, but now that I read your words I think I see it more clearly.

I have to add on that part about immortality (could be something you meant, tho I am not quite certain again). I think that the 'vampiric immortality' is something in which such soul would be forever bound to the matter; I have no other means to explain it. The spirit of human normally ascends out of samsara, - or wheel of life - in some point of our lives, but for 'vampire' there is no such option, or it is very hard to achieve. They spend their eternity 'chained' on their lusts and therefore are bound to 'eternal life'.

reply to post by RagenCajun

Originally posted by RagenCajun

With that said it's hard to find unconditional love amongst pure humans as well. People can say they have unconditional love but when your looking down the barrel of a gun does it really matter?

Unfortunately you are correct. This unconditioned love is indeed very rare - perhaps we should work on it tho? But you are wrong about the part that it doesn't matter - it is really the only thing that matters.

Sincerely,

-v

[edit on 18-9-2008 by v01i0]

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


You've got some pretty good points... thanks for you opinion not that i plan to try and become a vampire or anything but its given me something to think about...

heres another one for you.....

Vampires are called the Damned or the Children of the Damned. what do you think(opinion of course) happens to there souls if they did exist? Are they instantly corrupted and sent to hell(following your lead and using Christian terms) or do they go to God, or since they're not completely dead yet are they stuck in some kinda limbo?

another thing... would you think that it would make a difference on the out come of their souls if they were turned by choice or against their will?

Peace

Justice

reply to post by v01i0


But how? How can it matter without any proof of an after life? Otherwise you are gambling your whole life on blind faith.

However the main point I was trying to get across that my itouch wouldn't let me is that it is very similar to those kids in elementary school that say they would rush into their burning home to save their dog. But you never can know unless you are actually put in that situation...that life or death situation...

reply to post by RagenCajun


Not blind faith my vampire friend. I try to live by strict empiristic code. I have personally experienced the effect of the matter at hand, I personally know that it is only thing that matter; but I will not impose it to others.

Originally posted by RagenCajun
...[I]t is very similar to those kids in elementary school that say they would rush into their burning home to save their dog. But you never can know unless you are actually put in that situation...that life or death situation...

You know, it wouldn't matter a lot if a dog dies in a burning house, even if it would be mine - By trying to save that dog I could make things worse to the dog and for me, for we could both end up badly burned and crippled rest of our lives. There is always consideration in these things.

But I see what you mean. It takes a lot of will to be able to sacrifice oneself for the greater good. But then again, how do you judge greater good (or more accurately, greater 'righteousness', as I don't believe a lot in good and evil)?

I don't make such scenarios for myself or nobody else for those are merely useless fantasies, for it is the situation that makes the count. Yes you are absolutely correct for I really cannot tell how I would act in any such 'scenario', because I have no experiences of them. I guess only time will tell.

Be well,

-v

[edit on 18-9-2008 by v01i0]

Originally posted by RagenCajun
But how? How can it matter without any proof of an after life? Otherwise you are gambling your whole life on blind faith.

Its better to have something to believe than going though your life knowing theres nothing left for you but feeding the worms.

And if there is an after life you could be gambling your immortal soul.

witch is worse?

Originally posted by RagenCajun
However the main point I was trying to get across that my itouch wouldn't let me is that it is very similar to those kids in elementary school that say they would rush into their burning home to save their dog. But you never can know unless you are actually put in that situation...that life or death situation...

Your right you don't know if you would do it until the time comes. Most people would when it comes down to it i think... I would give my life gladly to save the life of the woman i love. I've gone into burning buildings and looked down the barrels of guns and that was for people i didn't even know...

Yeah it was a cool dream to be a vampire but when it comes down to its just that a dream.

Mans mortal so why not give up that mortality for the good of someone else, maybe you'll see that theres an afterlife maybe not.

Take my advice accept death you are going to die and you will never truly live until you can come to terms with that.


Peace Justice


fixed the quote

[edit on 18-9-2008 by ...and justice for some]

[edit on 18-9-2008 by ...and justice for some]

reply to post by v01i0


I understand the consideration. I mean....it's a dog. But this was back in elementary school where losing your dog was like losing your significant other.

Oh, yes, also that topic I started was moved to BTS....I assume it was because the moderator, like many on ATS, was biased to their own beliefs and did not believe me. You usually see it more in the Government sections. But of course discussing vampires in a non-interview fashion is completely acceptable...

Just saying, if you are interested in my response......which was quite lengthy.

reply to post by RagenCajun


Thank you for your effort, I gave it a read and also a short reply. Be well,

-v

Originally posted by ...and justice for some

Mans mortal so why not give up that mortality for the good of someone else, maybe you'll see that theres an afterlife maybe not.

I must beg you to forgive, but I must disagree. Man is immortal. No, I was supposed to say 'eternal' really. It is just that our personality isn't eternal, but the matter we are made of, is not going to perish when we 'die', and the will that created us into this shape will not perish either. Actually, this life (this very life we are experiencing right now) is merely temporary; that's why it is written in bible (before I get any of you started about bible: Please, I do think that it can't be taken literally and some parts of it are even add-ons and misinterpretations!) that 'sons of heaven fell in love with daughters of earth' - this can be interpret so that our eternal will took shape in matter. Plato explains all this in his theory of forms.

The form of man does exists without you or me, and nature of earth would most likely build up another, new man, if we ever manage to extinct every human from this globe. It is because of the idea of man, or the form. That form is eternal and as I see it, our souls are part of that eternal form. We can either live up to it, or dismiss it and live in 'sin' and get rewarded by our personal hell.

Yeah yeah, I repeat like a parrot the words of others, but what can I do if I see that this is the case? No matter what, I think I've experienced things that proves this for me. I write it down here - not to convert anyone - but because I like to share it. It is up to you if you want read it or not, if you want to adapt it or not. It is not a new invention or some fancy new age religion - it is part of aeons old wisdoms from which all the religions derive from.

I think I will end here. I wish everybody all the best!

-v

reply to post by v01i0


I agree with you, perhaps in a more Buddhist sense. Yes, there will be energy when we die. This is a fact since energy cannot be destroyed. The question that remains for me is whether this energy will have a consciousness. I see it more as we will all become one energy floating amongst the cosmos. Will there be judgment for our actions? And if so who will be the judge?

Originally posted by v01i0

I must beg you to forgive, but I must disagree. Man is immortal. No, I was supposed to say 'eternal' really. It is just that our personality isn't eternal, but the matter we are made of, is not going to perish when we 'die', and the will that created us into this shape will not perish either.

I was going more for the life we have now can't lst forever not that our souls or all parts or our being is just dead and gone when we pass from this existence to the next...

...Please, I do think that it can't be taken literally and some parts of it are even add-ons and misinterpretations!) that 'sons of heaven fell in love with daughters of earth'.....

Is this from Genesis? if it is I thought that was talking about the angels and the fallen taking human lovers?

Its the same things in the Book of Enoch and Jubilees.

Yeah yeah, I repeat like a parrot the words of others, but what can I do if I see that this is the case?

I cant blame you for preaching what you believe.... and you've bought up some good points.

I think I will end here. I wish everybody all the best!

you should come back you've got allot of good points and I value your opinion.

Deny Ignorance Brother

Justice