AIG. Conspiracy Theories of the World Unite

Does it ever cease to amaze you what depths people will go to to fill their pockets with spiritually worthless cash.

Nice thread!

Originally posted by mybigunit
Hmm is it? The fact is the government owns 80% equity in AIG. So yes they DO own AIG as of now. You can slice it any way you want but as Obama says you can put lipstick on a pig but it is still a pig and guy ... this is an 85 billion dollar pig.

*sigh*

online.wsj.com...

The U.S. negotiators drove a hard bargain. Under terms hammered out Tuesday night, the Fed will lend up to $85 billion to AIG, and the U.S. government will effectively get a 79.9% equity stake in the insurer in the form of warrants called equity participation notes. The two-year loan will carry an interest rate of Libor plus 8.5 percentage points. (Libor, the London interbank offered rate, is a common short-term lending benchmark.)

Please read.

What this means is, we have taken collateral in full amount to ensure that AIG comes up with the capital to pay us back. If they don't we get the full amount back. If they do, which they should since they are entirely capable, we make a profit.

We don't take control of the stock UNLESS they fail to produce capital. You are making it out to be like they have full control over the company. They don't. They won't be running the company, and as soon as they pay us their debt, the government will no longer have affiliation with AIG.

reply to post by grimreaper797


Im not making it out like they will have full control. Im making it out like they are bailing out a company that shouldnt be bailed out. Once again a bailout is a bailout where is all the small businesses here in the nation and their bailouts? They dont get one. In fact most banks arent even working with them on their current credit lines to make things easier like move it to an interest only till the economy weakens. The government just turns a blind eye and takes care of their own.

Question if the government makes money on these deals are they going to send the taxpayer a check for putting their money up to bailout AIG or any of these other conglomerates? The idea of the government assuming more liabilities from mismanaged financial outfits, whether secured or not, is not a comforting thought and yes it does put the FED in control of a private company.

[edit on 18-9-2008 by mybigunit]

I have a few questions for members that are probably more knowledgeable than I.
1. Who decides who and when and how much to bail out a company?
2. How is it that such a huge monetary movement,paid for with taxpayer dollars, is not put to a vote by the American people? I for one dont give a rats butt about AIG, and I certainly would not choose to pay for its mistakes.
3. If this country is already operating at a huge deficit, where is the money going to come from?
4.What would be the ultimate result of not bailing them out?
5. Why would our government give 85 billion to a private company?
6. Is that a loan?, And if so what are the terms?
7. Does this mean that the Federal Government owns AIG,Fanny Mae, and Freddy Mack now?
Seems completely unfair and unethical to help out the super-rich,while the rest of the country wallows in poverty.

Originally posted by spookjr
I have a few questions for members that are probably more knowledgeable than I.
1. Who decides who and when and how much to bail out a company?
2. How is it that such a huge monetary movement,paid for with taxpayer dollars, is not put to a vote by the American people? I for one dont give a rats butt about AIG, and I certainly would not choose to pay for its mistakes.
3. If this country is already operating at a huge deficit, where is the money going to come from?
4.What would be the ultimate result of not bailing them out?
5. Why would our government give 85 billion to a private company?
6. Is that a loan?, And if so what are the terms?
7. Does this mean that the Federal Government owns AIG,Fanny Mae, and Freddy Mack now?
Seems completely unfair and unethical to help out the super-rich,while the rest of the country wallows in poverty.

1. The FED decides who stays and who goes. An unelected private company chooses how much taxpayer dollars gets to bailout a company and who goes.

2. Because the FED owns our government. This whole experience makes it so obvious its disgusting.

3. Raise taxes and print it so we have to pay the inflation tax also. Oh yeah we will borrow too if anyone will lend us and pay even more crushing interest.

4. A firesale on cheap assets and many stock holders would lose a ton of money and bigger and better companies would raise up from the ground.

5. Because they are part of the good old boy network.

6. Loan at around 12% A loan that most other businesses cant get right now because the banks refuse to lend

7. In a sense yes. They are investors and generally when investors invest in something they have a say on what goes on. So I hope you enjoy paying your mortgage to the government soviet union style.

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
We all know now that that the federal reserve is a farce. Now that the reserve controls 80% of AIG, they now will have a controlling interest in that particular market. Just another step in the eventual control of the money systems worldwide.

I thought, as the politicians and president has put it, 'we the people' now own 80% and will benefit from 'stock options'.

Sorry, I just couldn't keep a straight face when I saw that last night. I was giving my son some pointers when we were watching the news. Showing him what is obvious BS and what is spin. It was very fun. Then that piece came on and the moron was saying how the people were going to benefit heavily from this. What a bunch of crap. The Fed will benefit because they don't pay taxes (which is the biggest farce of them all, force them to repay ALL back taxes from their inception and see just how much debt we really have. But then the self proclaimed 'elites' would have to swallow their tongues.)

There is a bit more to AIG than the general population sees. As you stated OP, follow the money.

Am I getting this right..

The FED, has bailed out AIG for $85billion and stands to inherit (if it already doesn't) 80% of the company, assets totaling around $1.1trillion, so around 810billion.

The FED, is a private company, which essentially owns the government, aswell as controlling the countries monetary system?

Can they manipulate the market to cause AIG to go under?

Thanks in advance.

EMM

AIG was taken down by a mixture of its crappy insured loans to banks, the overall state of finance, and the ultimate short selling of its stock by large hedge funds trying to make a buck by destroying a company.

Now more then ever its important to truly realize what is going on here, we wouldn't have these bailouts or bubbles if our currency was backed by hard assets. And I'm talking all of it, not just based on the theory that it is and we'll print money from there. We can continue to print money based off the hard assets we do own, but that will just continue to deflate value of our dollar. Our entire currency system as it stands now is a joke. We need someone like Ron Paul who is willing to stand up to the Federal Reserve, tell them "What you're doing is Un-Constitutional and is not fair to the American people," and pull the plug on the all the rich bankers' parade.

Do you realize, in just a matter of YEARS, how prosperous our nation would truly be? We would truly lead the world into a new age of technology, information, and peace.

I have much to learn.

Please tell me, the $85 billion used to 'bail out' AIG (which I understand is guaranteed in 'warrants') is that real money? I mean if the Fed 'produces' this credit, does that constitute a 'loan' to the US upon which we will owe interest, like whenever they print money?

Originally posted by mybigunit
Im not making it out like they will have full control. Im making it out like they are bailing out a company that shouldnt be bailed out.

Again, you are condoning the collapse of our market in the name of free market principles. You haven't really talked to me before this AIG thing, so Ill let you in on some information about me. This is one of the first times I am 100% supporting the federal reserves bailing a company out. If ANY bail out was necessary, it was this one. When I heard tuesday morning that AIG had no way to get a loan, and was turning to the federal reserve again, I was worried as hell we were going to see another great depression start by the begining of next week.

Luckily they did not make the same mistake as they did in 1929 and DID act. This probably saved the economy from a big meltdown.

Once again a bailout is a bailout where is all the small businesses here in the nation and their bailouts? They dont get one.

damn right they don't, because they aren't going to bring this country's economy to its knees, along with the world economy.

Question if the government makes money on these deals are they going to send the taxpayer a check for putting their money up to bailout AIG or any of these other conglomerates?

No, we all spent that money decades ago. Maybe if we were debt free and didn't have spending exceed revenue each year by so much, you might have seen some sort of tax rebate or something.

The idea of the government assuming more liabilities from mismanaged financial outfits, whether secured or not, is not a comforting thought and yes it does put the FED in control of a private company.

It doesn't put them in control, though it does mean they carry liability. I can't explain this concept over and over anymore.

reply to post by Maxmars


No, its like this, over the course of the next 2 years, AIG gets a loan for a max of 85 billion. That means they can take up to 85 billion dollars in credit from the fed. Right now they need X amount (I forgot the amount they needed). Anyway, once they borrow that, they owe 8.5% interest on whatever they borrowed. So they are basically going to sell assets to pay off whatever they take out, and the interest.

This money gives them to sell the assets at reasonable value so that they can get back on our feet. So long as they sell their assets, its a win win. The fed makes interest on the loan, therefore less overall lending debt, and AIG doesn't collapse, and suffers the losses that resulted from all this (much better then collapsing and going broke).

reply to post by grimreaper797


Ok so the small businesses cannot bring this country to its knees. I mean really? Have you seen your signature? I gave you credit for understanding business now Im starting to wonder and that is not an insult. The fact is small businesses employ most of the employees in this country. That is a fact. People start losing jobs in mass because of the collapse of the small businesses trust me the world WILL feel it because the world relies on our consumption. Sigh and you can reiterate all you want on the bailout. Its a bailout get over it.

reply to post by grimreaper797


Thanks for the response. So they basically get a line of credit from the Fed, and as they use the money they are responsible for the principle AND the interest, thus the taxpayers are not impacted, as the government itself is not really involved until such time as AIG defaults (which seems unlikely).

I am sincerely trying to synthesize an understanding of this from everyone's input, and while I know there is disagreement regarding the long term ramifications, it seems this is a better place to learn that a university..., no BS goes unchallenged here!

I am about to post something related to this to 'expand' the conspiracy theory angle...

A friend of mine sent me this article they apparently copied from another site, but she failed to tell me which (I'm suspecting Wayne Madson Report)

September 18, 2008 -- AIG is "special case"

The U.S. government's bail out of insurance giant American International Group (AIG) comes as no surprise to intelligence community insiders. In fact, AIG has been at the center of a number of CIA operations for decades. The federal government's $85 billion "bridge" loan to AIG essentially makes the United States government an 80 percent stakeholder in AIG, a move that will prevent external players from peering into AIG's myriad intelligence operations on behalf of the CIA, according to an insider who has followed AIG's overseas operations for a number of years.

As Attorney General of New York state and as Governor, Eliot Spitzer made AIG a prime target for his investigations. That ended when Spitzer was brought down in a sex scandal involving a prostitution ring.

AIG's chairman, before he was forced to resign amid scandal, was Maurice "Hank" Greenberg. In 1962, Greenberg was hired by AIG's founder, Cornelius Vander Starr, the uncle of President Bill Clinton prosecutor Kenneth Starr, as the chief of AIG's North American operations. Greenberg eventually took over as AIG's chairman, as well as assuming the Chairmanship and CEO position of Starr's other firm, C. V. Starr and Company. Greenberg retained control of C. V. Starr and Company after having stepped down as AIG's chairman in 2005.

Greenberg, a close friend of Henry Kissinger, was considered a potential CIA director in 1995 after James Woolsey resigned. Perhaps it was Greenberg's past connections to Whitewater Independent Counsel Starr's uncle Cornelius that dissuaded Clinton from giving Greenberg the keys to Langley's top executive washroom.

However, Greenberg and AIG had a long association with the CIA, according to WMR's sources. AIG's intelligence operations in Asia even pre-date the CIA and its predecessor, the wartime Office of Strategic Services (OSS).i Greenberg has served as a member of the National Intelligence Council.

Cornelius V. Starr started AIG as "American Asiatic Underwriters" in 1919 in Shanghai. Starr moved AIG from Shanghai to New York after the Communists came to power in 1949. Ironically, AIG is back in China through its ownership of People's Insurance Company of China. AIG also owns AIG Korea Insurance.

Ever since the days of Ken Starr's uncle Cornelius, AIG has, on behalf of U.S. intelligence, kept tabs on rising players on the Asia political scene, particularly in China, Japan, Korea, Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan, and other countries. The quid pro quo for AIG is that it has weathered the storms generated by Spitzer and the global financial melt down from the strong support from the U.S. government in return for permitting the mining of data from AIG's insurance files by the CIA.

Greenberg has maintained close relations with the Beijing leadership over the years. However, his dealings with the CIA are also well known to the Chinese intelligence services. In fact, Chinese intelligence is aware that Greenberg has allowed AIG to be used as a major "placement" operation for a number of the CIA's Asia-based non-official cover (NOC) officers.

The CIA's analysts who concentrate on Asia have also enjoyed routine access to a huge AIG database maintained in San Francisco. AIG's new building in Hong Kong was intended to be a major outpost for CIA agents assigned the China "beat." However, Chinese intelligence succeeded in thoroughly wiring the building with surveillance systems and AIG's China operations were blown. Chinese intelligence could not believe how sloppy Greenberg and the CIA were in handling the Hong Kong operation.
With the U.S. government now in control of AIG, the Bush family will breathe particularly easier.

On June 20, 2005, WMR reported the following concerning the connection between Greenberg and the Bushes:

"The investigations of the secret Bush money tranches are coming to the fore as New York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer focuses in on the scandal involving Maurice "Hank" Greenberg and the inflation of the worth of American International Group (AIG) through shady affiliates, including AIG reinsurer Coral Re of Barbados. Greenberg was the CEO of AIG but was forced to step down amid the Spitzer probe. AIG was founded from Asia Life/CV Starr, a Shanghai-based international import/export and insurance firm founded in 1919 by Cornelius V. Starr, an Office of Strategic Services (OSS) operative in Southeast Asia during World War II. AIG's largest shareholder is Starr International Company (SICO), an off-shore corporation incorporated  in Panama with headquarters in Bermuda. Kenneth Starr, the independent counsel who prosecuted President Clinton, is the nephew of Cornelius Starr. Greenberg inherited the CEO job and Chairmanship from Starr as well as the $3.5 billion Starr Foundation."

I am uncertain as to the veracity or source of this material, so I will not start a thread with it. But it is an interesting addition to the mix... if you will.

Originally posted by mybigunit
Ok so the small businesses cannot bring this country to its knees. I mean really? Have you seen your signature? I gave you credit for understanding business now Im starting to wonder and that is not an insult. The fact is small businesses employ most of the employees in this country. That is a fact. People start losing jobs in mass because of the collapse of the small businesses trust me the world WILL feel it because the world relies on our consumption. Sigh and you can reiterate all you want on the bailout. Its a bailout get over it.

Yeah, fortunately, just because a small business fails does not mean the rest of them will fail. You have a company like AIG fail, compare it to a no name corporation failing. Small businesses would have to simultaneously declare bankruptcy in mass amounts to do the damage AIG would do. Sure small business employes the most people, but that is because sheer numbers.

AIG fails, everyone feels the major negative impacts. Small business owner fails, his local town might feel some of the effects for a little while before somebody replaces him. Fact is, his individual business is not going to destroy the economy. I can't understand how you can sit here and compare the bankruptcy of a small business to the seriousness of the largest insurer in the world going bankrupt.

And you know why small business would collapse in mass amounts? Because the people that were insuring them and lending to them went bankrupt. Who's are those people? None other than the heavy hitter on wall street. Its a ripple effect. AIG is like a massive boulder and one small business owner is a pebble.

Small businesses don't start mass bankrupting spontaneously in dangerous amounts. Something has to cause such a dangerous disruption, which is what you fail or refuse to see.

And you can call it socialism all you want, but that doesn't make it so. You can't redefine what a word means just because you will it.

reply to post by grimreaper797


Small businesses are already collapsing in large amounts. Im not sure where you live but here in south Florida they are dropping like flies. Pull up to any strip mall down here you see all sorts of places going out of businesses. This is caused directly because of the banking industry via the credit boom and credit crunch implemented by the FED bank. This isnt the first time they have done this. In fact since you keep bringing up the 20s lets talk about the "roaring 20s" which was funded by a big credit boom. So then the FED retracted all that credit and what do we have. The depression. Its inevitable because of the monetary system we have. This system created on debt. So the FED causes these booms and busts and me the taxpayer have to bail these guys out. No thanks you can have it.

very insightful & brilliant research and post, thank you.

Originally posted by dbates
American International Group (AIG) rescued by the Fed
They weren’t just secret agents. They were secret insurance agents. These undercover underwriters gave their World War II spymasters access to a global industry that both bankrolled and, ultimately, helped bring down Adolf Hitler’s Third Reich. The men behind the insurance unit were OSS head William “Wild Bill” Donovan and California-born insurance magnate Cornelius V. Starr.

This, from my historical novel:

President Roosevelt sent Joint Chiefs of Staff top secret copies of Donovan’s intelligence agency creation proposal, & a draft of an executive order to implement it. Jan. 1, 1945, Joint Chiefs of Staff said plan to exclude military intelligence from intelligence agency was not acceptable. The plan leaked to four newspapers, attacking it …newspaper headlines accused Roosevelt & Wild Bill of trying to create a super Gestapo in United States. Donovan put plan … to implement civilian intelligence agency made up of Wall Street Fed majority stockholder, ruling family representatives, like in OSS … on hold. Apr. 12, 1945 Roosevelt died ...and, w/it ...that version of plan for a super intelligence agency run by Wall Street.

however, the CIA was what the OSS created, a private army for the Fed/City of London to work alongside Bank of England's private army, MI-6.

Donovan also imported mind-control and MK-Ultra techniques and '___' from Tavistock via MI-G, all were City of London programs - (see bottom for url) City of London OWNS ALL the major insurance programs and re-insurance programs and also the Bank of England & Fed)

Please note: Donovan, Dulles etc. were spies for the FED/City of London bankers that not only make money from war, THEY CAUSE THE WARS AND FINANCE BOTH SIDES -- including co-founding Saudi Arabia and creating and financing the Arab nazis aka bin laden(s) and the moslem brotherhood and al Qaeda NOTE in addition to banking scams, they control the heroin industry and create the biowar neurotoxins.

I've documented all this extensively in my large thread www.abovetopsecret.com... -- but, you really have to dig it out, by going through the whole thread --which really asking too much of anyone (except diehard researchers), and here are a references w/documentation and expanded coverage inc a few other threads OF THE CURRENT FED/NWO RIP-OFF OF TAX PAYERS:
bear stearns, at
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Lehman/Enron oil 'front-running' champs?: Oil Speculation Collapse Brings More Realistic Prices, at www.abovetopsecret.com...

mainland china financed by rockefellor and Fed
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Fed founded by pre-Nazi/Nazi/neo-Nazi/NWO Warburg family, at
www.abovetopsecret.com...

read: 'shotgun wedding of Amero to GCC to kill dollar: Saudi plot to kill oil rival (Iran) & kill U.S. economy (dollar)'
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Here are related Sutton youtube videos: www.abovetopsecret.com...

City of London
'Crown' committee of twelve to fourteen men who rule independent sovereign state known as London or 'City’. www.freedomdomain.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

When people think of England such terms as 'Great Britain,' 'Queen,' 'Crown,' 'Crown Colonies,' 'London,' 'City of London,' & 'British Empire' come to mind & blend together into an indistinguishable blur. They generally looked upon as synonymous, as being representative of same basic system.

When we speak of 'City' we in fact referring to privately owned Corporation - or Sovereign State - occupying an irregular rectangle of 677 acres & located right in heart of 610 square mile 'Greater London' area. population of 'City' listed at just over four thous& whereas population of 'Greater London' (32 boroughs) approximately seven & half million.

[edit on 18-9-2008 by counterterrorist]

[edit on 18-9-2008 by counterterrorist]

reply to post by mybigunit



I know I just told you in the other thread, but I will say it again, fiat currency is the only way you can go. The Gold Standard is not an alternative. It is far too restrictive and you will see every other country using fiat currency just leave us in the dust. Our economic power would diminish to nothing and our currency would be just another among the mix.

We didn't come all this way just to give away our power because some people don't like how the new system requires you to look at problems on a situational basis rather than just making broad generalizations.

Here's another interesting (or weird) AIG/CIA connection:

The English soccer club Manchester United is sponsored by AIG, since 2006.

On 6 April 2006, chief executive David Gill announced AIG as the new shirt sponsors of Manchester United in a British record shirt sponsorship deal of £56.5 million to be paid over four years (£14.1 million a year). Manchester United now has the most valuable sponsorship deal in the world [source]

In 2005, Manchester United was bought by Malcom Glazer

Off the pitch, the main story was the possibility of the club being taken over and on 12 May 2005, American businessman Malcolm Glazer acquired a controlling interest in the club through his investment vehicle Red Football Ltd. in a takeover valuing the club at approximately £800 million (then approx. $1.5 billion). On 16 May, he increased his share to the 75% necessary to de-list the club from the Stock Exchange, making it private again, and announced his intention to do so within 20 days. On 8 June he appointed his sons to the Manchester United board as non-executive directors. [source]

Now here comes the weird part:

Malcolm Irving Glazer (born 1928 in Rochester, New York) is a Jewish American billionaire businessman and sports-team owner. He is president and chief executive officer of First Allied Corporation, a holding company for his varied business interests.
He holds controlling stakes in the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, a National Football League (NFL) team located in Florida, United States, and Manchester United, the biggest sporting franchise in the world.[...]

One of the companies that Glazer did purchase successfully was the nearly bankrupt Zapata, an oil and gas company founded by George H. W. Bush. Glazer successfully diversified it into fish protein and Caribbean supermarkets. [source]

Zapata Corporation:

Zapata Corporation (NYSE: ZAP) is a holding company based in Rochester, New York and originating from an oil company started by a group including the former United States president George H. W. Bush. Various writers have found links between the company and the United States Central Intelligence Agency.[...]

Two Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) memoranda have been offered to show connections between the CIA and George H. W. Bush during his time at Zapata. The first memo names Zapata Off-Shore and was written by FBI Special Agent Graham Kitchel on 22 November 1963, regarding the John F. Kennedy assassination at 12:30 p.m. CST that day. It begins: "At 1:45 p.m. Mr. GEORGE H. W. BUSH, President of the Zapata Off-Shore Drilling Company, Houston, Texas, residence 5525 Briar, Houston, telephonically furnished the following information to writer. .. BUSH stated that he wanted to be kept confidential. .. was proceeding to Dallas, Texas, would remain in the Sheraton-Dallas Hotel."

A second FBI memorandum, written by J. Edgar Hoover, identifies "George Bush" with the CIA. It is dated 29 November 1963 and refers to a briefing given Bush on 23 November. The FBI Director describes a briefing about JFK's murder "orally furnished to Mr. George Bush of the Central Intelligence Agency. .. [by] this Bureau" on "November 23, 1963.[...]


Michael Maholy alleges that Zapata Off-Shore was used as part of a CIA drug-smuggling ring to pay for arming Nicaraguan Contras in 1986-1988, including Rodriguez, Eugene Hasenfus and others. Mahony claims Zapata's oil rigs were used as staging bases for drug shipments, allegedly named "Operation Whale Watch." Mahony allegedly worked for Naval Intelligence, US State Department and CIA for two decades.

There are numerous other references to links between Zapata and CIA. And this is all just in wikipedia!


edit to add: great post dbates, starred and flaged

[edit on 18-9-2008 by danx]