Retrocausality

Just an article - very easy to understand - from Cynthia Sue Larson (with bibliography), for the benefit of anyone who might be interested in this highly interesting topic.

Retrocausality


(On an unrelated note: those who enjoy stories about "disappearing people" be sure to check the current issue of her e-zine.)

Wow... nice to see a write up on this. Every time I try to explain it, I know people are rolling their eyes assuming that I'm crazy (which indeed I may be!). But still, I've experienced many instances recently (especially during a 2-week period in May) of 'Retrocasuality'. Nice to see there's a term for it now.

What I found especially humorous, was that a particular channeling (that happened about 10 years before I read it) seemed to be nearly a direct channeling from my own imagination. Despite the fact that I never read changelings before, nor took them seriously. Weiiiiird stuff! They may not be channeling from aliens at all! Just random people in the future with overactive imaginations!

Suffice to say, I'm now a firm believer in the collective unconscious mind and the concept of nonlinear time.

Such concepts and experiences of the sort may land people in the loony bin now, but I've no doubt that this will become a more widely accepted phenomenon in the future (and past), especially as more people start to understand quantum physics. The experiencers are always ahead of the curve, because we're pretty much forced to understand it... or get medicated.

[edit on 9/17/2008 by Kruel]

reply to post by Kruel


I think you might like certain parts of the book "Parallel Universes of Self".
(See the "book review" thread. It's mentioned there. And then, maybe we can discuss it! )




[edit on 17-9-2008 by AdAstra]

I gather nobody here has successful experiences with retrocausality that they are willing to share...?
Never mind, "failures" are welcome, too.

Or just thoughts.
(If possible, of the constructive kind.)







[edit on 18-9-2008 by Vanitas]

reply to post by Vanitas



Frankly, and I hope nobody is offended by this observation... I don't think many people here even know what it means. (:
So, "wrong" title.
Not that it should be any different.

But hey, at least it won't be crowded "back then"...

So how do you do it?

The link provided has theories and experienced, but no real "how to". Do you affect things in the past by meditating or projecting yourself, or do you physically travel there?

Personally the idea of a future version of myself stepping out of a mirror would scare the crap out of me.

Also how do you know if it worked, if it only affects the past?

reply to post by AdAstra


bizarre - I was thinking of asking a question along these lines for my very first ever thread

now what am I going to do? :-)

I started really thinking about this reading a thread Skyfloating started: www.abovetopsecret.com...

I wonder if the voices weren't actually from ourselves - at least some of the time

I had a couple of instances of this when I was young that were very mysterious

definitely a who was that, what was that, and am I just nuts? - kind of thing

until I got older and realized - that's exactly what I would say to my younger self if I could - now that I'm older

I can't pretend to even have a theory about how this would work - but wondered if our self doesn't exist along a string of time - that maybe you could go back and talk yourself through some things - not actually change events - but how you viewed them - and view them now


change how you incorporate things into your existence - so that you haven't changed actuality - only how you approach it

interesting idea - good thread

even if I didn't know what it means :-)



[edit on 9/18/2008 by Spiramirabilis]

reply to post by Vanitas


Vanitas - I replied to Adastra - but actually intended that for you - now that I read back thru

it is an interesting idea - and a good thread

I hope it gets more attention

Originally posted by Yarcofin
So how do you do it?

We do it constantly but usually don't notice. Awareness is key.

I find that thinking up a brand new thought usually does the trick. The universe is more likely to manifest something novel compared to something that's already been done. Also, you're much more likely to notice. Be creative. Use that imagination, it's more powerful than you think!

When we think of something and then find out that someone else has already thought of it, we tend to pass such things off as coincidence. Examples may include coming up with similar lyrics as someone before, or artwork, or a story that you think is original only to find out that it's already been written. Most people automatically assume that they had come in contact with the knowledge beforehand, only to forget and then subconsciously remember later on thinking it was their idea. (remember Michael Jackson?) And certainly this is sometimes true... but not always!

I for one have a pretty damn good memory... so when I started noticing sychronicities happening constantly - and I had it for a couple weeks to such an extent that I could imagine something, do a search on the internet, and see/read it. It was uncanny. I mean, I had to reevaluate my entire life at that point, and came to some rather interesting conclusions.

It's basically the law of attraction or the observer effect, except time is not an obstacle. You attract something, yet the events are set in motion in the past in order to attract it into the present. That's how I understand it anyway.

Now onto the really weird part: I now see both past and future extending out from the present. Linear time is a primitive concept as far as I'm concerned, thanks to these rather strange, yet extraordinary and absolutely undeniable experiences that I've had. To me, the past is now just as unpredictable as the future. Sound crazy right? Well just look at how many times we've reinterpreted our past. Heck, people used to think the world was flat (and maybe it really WAS!). Makes me wonder if this whole 'reality' started not billions of years ago, but some time in the dark ages. I mean I'm seriously considering this possibility now. I'm that uncertain about the supposed 'solidity' of the past.

Don't take it from me though. Some things you just gotta experience for yourself. Just think up something new and see how long it takes before you find out it's already been done. You really have to open up to a new kind of thinking though to notice, and in hindsight it becomes obvious that things have always worked this way.

Careful what you ask for though. I often wonder how many schitzos are in the bin because they stumbled upon this strange way of viewing reality yet couldn't comprehend it.

reply to post by Vanitas


Vanitas, I always enjoy reading your posts.

I too am very interested in things like this, great article, I haven't read it properly but I skimmed through it, and while the authors experiences were an interesting read, I couldn't see anything about how to actually do it. Is there perhaps another article with a more "how to" approach?

Thanks for the replies, everyone.
I was so hoping we can discuss this a bit more.

Yes, HOW TO is the question here.
I would assume by the same "mechanism" that is used to pray, for example. (It's difficult to describe, but everyone knows it. )
After all, the most popular studies about the possible effects of retrocausality deal precisely with prayer.

Getting hold of some of the books that she mentions in the bibliography might be a good idea.

But of course nothing beats personal experience.
And since many people here (on the website) have been discussing phenomena that seem to deal with some kind of altered (perception of the) past, I am sure there are some who could provide some insight.

I have had certain experiences of my own, I must say, but I am reluctant to write about them before I can be reasonably sure that other explanations can be ruled out.

More on this later - I hope.

reply to post by narnizzle


That is most kind of you, Narnizzle.
In fact, you have made my day.

I will try to find articles on that.
Reading the books that Larson - and Ad Astra - mentioned would also be a good idea.


I'll be back. :-)








[edit on 20-9-2008 by Vanitas]

Originally posted by Kruel

I now see both past and future extending out from the present. Linear time is a primitive concept as far as I'm concerned, thanks to these rather strange, yet extraordinary and absolutely undeniable experiences that I've had. To me, the past is now just as unpredictable as the future. Sound crazy right? Well just look at how many times we've reinterpreted our past. Heck, people used to think the world was flat (and maybe it really WAS!).

Makes me wonder if this whole 'reality' started not billions of years ago, but some time in the dark ages. I mean I'm seriously considering this possibility now. I'm that uncertain about the supposed 'solidity' of the past.

Very well said.
Personally I couldn't agree more with this.

And I am glad you mentioned the importance of good memory.
(Of course, it makes it all the more baffling to the one who is "messing" with the past - and it opens an even wider gap between him/her and those who do not have such good memory - I am sure you know what I mean )

And so, believing - being aware of - the reality of uncertainty is the first step of the "how to", I suppose.






[edit on 20-9-2008 by Vanitas]

I started really thinking about this reading a thread Skyfloating started: www.abovetopsecret.com...

I wonder if the voices weren't actually from ourselves - at least some of the time

A very plausible explanation, if you ask me.
Especially considering that the voice is often eerily similar to one's own voice.

In fact, I have been thinking... what if the "guardian angels" that some people claim to see or hear or feel -I am sure they DO perceive them, it's just that I am not 100% convinced about the concept - are, in fact, their future (or "parallel") selves?





[edit on 20-9-2008 by Vanitas]

exactly

suspiciously like one's own

though - I have heard a few that were nothing like mine

but - some of my experiences weren't just a couple of random words - they were actual advice

and like I said - something I would say to myself now if I actually had that ability

but when you think back through your life - you can look at yourself then as someone separate from who you are now - and see your situations - the events in your life - from a new perspective - I often hear myself saying things along the lines of "you needn't have worried about that after all", or "what you thought was true wasn't"

maybe that thought process is available front to back and visa versa - if you see what I mean?

so - maybe we are our own guardians? interesting

or maybe a mix

So if you do manage to change the past, would you remember what the previous timeline was? Or, since it has been changed, would you simply only remember what the new timeline is? (Hope that made sense)
And if you can't remember the previous timeline, how would you know that you had actually changed the past?

I went back and read the article properly, a lot of it went over my head though, mainly the quantam mechanics explanations.

reply to post by narnizzle



Obviously, I can only speak for myself, but in my experience events that were, or are being, "erased" acquire a dream-like quality. To be more precise, it's like remembering a very vivid dream: you feel that it is definitely relevant to your ""waking" life, maybe even feel that some fragments of it had happened.
Or like remembering something - a story you heard, a film you saw - from when you were a child, and you aren't 100% sure what it was all about.

Be it as it may, I think - or, to be more precise, I have the intuition (partially based on actual experience) - that paradoxes associated with this type of "time travel" in reality don't apply. (I'd rather not even mention Everett - the poor man must be spinning in his grave by now )

That's interesting. Do you think that deja vu and precognitive dreams could be related to this as well? Maybe you are "remembering" your future self changing the past?

reply to post by narnizzle


At this point I have little doubt (and the "little" that remains is purely theoretical) that we, each one of us, really do encompass the "past", the "future" and the "present" all at the same time, while (normally) being able to process only one of them at a time. (The consensus seems to be that it's the one we call the "present"... )

I have had (and witnessed) premonitions - and a "precognitive" dream or two - that were impossible to be mistaken for anything else or misinterpreted.

As to deja vu, until a few months ago, I wasn't sure what it really was.
I was even considering the possibility that it may be a "glitch", after all.
(I say "even" because the idea of the brain - all too often mistakenly identified with the Mind - having processing "errors" for no apparent reason seems unlikely, considering how widespread the phenomenon is.)
It did/does feel like the mind reading itself, after all.

And then I read about that recent study that found out (or so it seems) that we actually perceive things and events about half a second or a second "before" they happen. (I know it was discussed on ATS, but I am a little short on time, so I can't search for the thread right now.)

That (= somehow skipping that "buffer" lapse of time) would explain the deja vu phenomenon.
(The implications, of course, are enormously revolutionary, from the standpoint of contemporary "scientific" views on time and how the mind works - although they say nothing that any of the ancient mystics didn't know thousands of years ago ;-))

As I said, I am a little pressed for time right now, but I hope to be back soon.
Let me just remind you of Dunne's book "An Experiment With Time". If you haven't read it, do so. I think you would find it immensely interesting.
I also find Wolf's "The Yoga of Time Travel" to be quite useful.

More on my personal "how to" later on...









[edit on 21-9-2008 by Vanitas]

Really interesting thread. Now it's time for me to share a very strange story.

Around about 1998, I was suffering from a very low period in my life. I was really upset about several things that weren't going right, including the fact that I was unable to return to University. One night, it all became too much for me, and I burst into tears while I sat on my living room floor. I cried and cried, attempting to let out all the sadness and anxiety, but they seemed to be coming from a bottomless fount. I didn't know what I was going to do with my life.

Suddenly, as I cried, it felt like there was someone there with me. It felt like someone came up behind me and put their arms around me. I began to feel like I was being rocked back and forth, and I heard a really pleasant voice say "It'll be okay." over and over again. This must have gone on for about five minutes.

It's hard to describe what it felt like, because it wasn't a spooky "haunting" type feeling. At the time, I was so upset, I was ready to take comfort from anywhere, so I just let it all happen. I figured that a voice in my head telling me that things were going to be okay was much better than a voice telling me to jump off a bridge or to go join a cult. After about five minutes, the feeling and the voice in my head went away. I felt a little better and managed to get up off the floor and get on with my life.

Fast forward to about 2004 or so. My life was completely different at that point. Things were going really well for me, and I was feeling incredibly optimistic. I was meditating daily at that point, for about 30-45 minutes each day. One day, I started my usual meditation routine, but it was rudely interrupted. One minute, I was doing my usual thing, the next moment, I saw myself standing behind the figure of a woman who was sitting on a floor. I looked around, assuming I was having some kind of spontaneous out of body experience, and recognized my old living room. I immediately realized that I was visiting that evening during which I had been so upset.

I stood and watched myself cry, feeling more than a little puzzled. I couldn't figure out why I was seeing this scene from my past all over again. Then I was struck by the realization that maybe I was there to comfort myself. I felt incredibly silly even thinking it, but then I began to wonder what would happen to the "me in the past" if I was there to comfort myself...and didn't?

I rushed to the figure on the floor, put my arms around her, and began to rock her back and forth. I didn't know what to say, but eventually found myself murmuring "It'll be okay." over and over again. This went on for about five minutes, until I found myself back in my body, my meditation over.

Of course, all of this is very easy to explain away and I have absolutely no proof that any of it happened. I only have my own experiences. The interesting thing about the experience was that I hadn't thought about that night for years. Then I was transported back to a memory of it without anything to remind me of it prior to the mediation. It wasn't even the same time of year as when the night in question took place.

So there's my strange story, for what it's worth. Thanks so much for posting the article and giving me a name for this strange phenomina.

Salvation Jane