This is a good story and it shows the charity of the masons. But is this what masons do? in the past you have stated that this charity was just a facade for the true aims of masonry. Or was this statement just a facade itself, to engender in masonry a sense of magic when truly it is just a charity?

XAOS

I've never said "Charity was a facade for what masons really do"...that's what antimasons say. They claim that our charity is just a cover up for demonic rituals and satanism.

Sincerely,
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doesn't the 'G' in the emblem mean God?

Yes, that or geometry, but when you sorta think about it, god is just the "beginnings" of our existance, and Geometry is the "beginnings" of math and math is "god" so it's all the same

Sincerely,
no signature

Mathematics is an illusion.


It`s an intellectual concept made possible by the perceptual conditions of the dimesnsions we are living in. They don`t hold true for every polydimensions in the Universe and therefore are quite abstract.


The "nombre d`or" is a very interesting number though,
and arguably the one to fit a mathematical definition of a "God".


But is it a definitive number?
More of an ideal, quite naive considering
we don`t even have the possible intellect to even begin
to describe some of this universe ..hmm..."possibilities" (I was going to say "realities" but that term is too unidimensional).


The moral problematic of the "NOMBRE D`OR" and mathematical exactitude is faced by simply admitting that the most fallacious and deceptive mathematical concepts are also "God", because the concept of God (if he exist) automatically imply the mistakes inherented by exactitudes.


In other words, the most beautiful person of the world and the ugliest are same to him, theoretically, therefore, nothing should ever resolve out as to be "important" over anything. "God" implies such a paradox. God IS "that" paradox.



Thanks,

Cedric

Completly unrelated, but i've heard from a few places that the number 36 is the key to the answers of the universe. Dont know why and im not even gong to try and figure it out. im #e at maths!

I got invited along to a masonic dinner to see if I wanted to join.
Frankly they're just a bunch of blokes. nothing particularly special.

several things put me off.

1: I'm charitable anyway, why bother having your charitys selected for you by committee
2: there were no women. Sorry but the idea of hanging out with a bunch of Blokes one evening a month doesn't really do it for me.
3: They were heavily conservative in their attitudes, thought thatcher was the best thing since sliced bread and most of them were pretty damn racist
4: Most of them were just average blokes like me, Its not like they were going to be able to wield any power.
5: The rituals were embarressing, and a little pathetic, reaked of the public schoolboy fagging system mentality.

Its a club, just like the womens rotary club or a sewing circle.

If they enjoy it good on them, but its not for me.

Most of them spent the evening playing cards...who knows, maybe they liked the time away from their wives.

~shrug~

There's quite a bit of family events, you just went to a diner, instalations are a better show

Sincerely,
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sure, they have picnics and stuff with family members, its just a social club. the only difference is that in this lodges case at any rate, your likely to be hanging out with a bunch of policemen and local business men.

I'm sure in the past it was far more mysterious, probably wielded a fai amount of influence a hundred odd years ago when a consortium of business men in a community could hold a lot of sway, nowadays though its a social club.

one thing I garantee.

they aren't plotting to take over the world.

Originally posted by kegs
Completly unrelated, but i've heard from a few places that the number 36 is the key to the answers of the universe. Dont know why and im not even gong to try and figure it out. im #e at maths!

WRONG! (it's 42)

Originally posted by Lupe_101
3: They were heavily conservative in their attitudes, thought thatcher was the best thing since sliced bread and most of them were pretty damn racist

it's surprising to see that a society that has existed for so many centuries still has trouble with these issues.
gives people more reason to believe that they are associated with the kkk.

Yeah...well hey damn I found somewhere doccumented proof of Freemasonry existing before 1640s, but I can't seem to find it at the moment concerning Elias Ashmole...so many anti-masons try to discredit that we are ancient

I think you're ancient when you are 500 years or more old....and we are Hell America was 1 year old, when Freemasonry was about 600!

Sincerely,
no signature

i wasn't questioning if the masonry is ancient or not...
i was more concerned about its views towards racial issues.

That's all in the past and you know it

But masonry never had a connection with KKK, how the hell did people come up with that? KKK was started by some college graduates a year or so after the civil war in pollack tennessee? (Something like that).

Three men to be precise, whom were educated in greek "Kuklos" (or somethign close to that but same sound) means Circle in greek, Klan was a catchy rhyme to go with it.

A few years later, Forrest disbanded the first KKK.

In the 1900s - 1920s, the KKK arose again, after the movie "Birth of a nation" it litterally blew up all over the nation, was eventually disbanded in I think the 30s, by the federal government, only to arise again in the 60s during the civil rights movement.

The thing people don't understand, is that after the 30s the KKK was ended nationally by the federal government...all KKK klaverns that exist now are completely independant of eachother.

Sincerely,
no signature

Originally posted by FreeMason
That's all in the past and you know it

allright... i understand that there is no regulation in the masonry that promotes racism... however, there is far too much evidence that individual members aren't too fond of having other races around. and what's the purpose of having seperate lodges for the african american masons (prince hall)?

"i wasn't questioning if the masonry is ancient or not...
i was more concerned about its views towards racial issues. "

I agree.

I don't believe theres anything inherently racist about the organisation, Its simply a product of its founding.

It was in the past basically a "gentlemens club"

gentelmen, in the past tended to be rich, white, and non to fond of "Johnny foreigner"

Nowadays The masons though more diverse is still attracting middle to upper class mid 50's white men, usually those involved in business of some kind.

This demographic is notoriously conservative and racist in its views, though rarely malicious and often oblivious to the concepts of racism and sexism in modern society.

I don't think theres anything sinister about the prevelance of right wing conservative attitudes in the masons, I see it simply as part of their base demographic.

Originally posted by kegs
Completly unrelated, but i've heard from a few places that the number 36 is the key to the answers of the universe. Dont know why and im not even gong to try and figure it out. im #e at maths!

Actually according to Douglas Adams the answer to life the universe and everything is 42.... the problem is we don't know what the question is.

Originally posted by xaos
This is a good story and it shows the charity of the masons. XAOS

FreeMasons call themselves HUMANISTS. They revendicate there apartenance to Emmanuel KANT philosophy. In France, masons are also a very strong secret society composed of intelluctuals, politics and industrials. (LEPEN, who is antimason talk about a french masonic lobby).

French president FranÁois MITTERAND was a mastermason. (In fact MITTERAND was a mystical president a "little" mad, The louvres glasses PYRAMIDES, The GREAT ARK OF DEFENSE And the "gigantesq" very great french library are both inspired from :
Ancient Aegytian architecture and FREEMASON SYMBOLISM.
Francois MITTERAND never took any important decision about politics without consulting Elizabeth.TESSIER, his personal astrologue...


[Edited on 18-2-2003 by Nans DESMICHELS]