Federal Reserve Conspiracy Debunked for Good.

See my post above. This thread should be FLAGGED because it has true discussion. The true debate though is missing.

What are we truly arguing about?? The OP is saying the Government OWNS the FEDS and the alternative view point is that the FED OWNS the Government. I believe these viewpoints intertwine and there really isn't a right or wrong answer in this question. They are ONE AND THE SAME.

I think the true issue is where do we go now?? The Amero?? Yah, right. There has got to be a solution and this system has gone on for sooo long its almost impossible to get it back on track. I believe the only true way is to go the Ron Paul line and have our currency backed by something real, like Gold or Silver. That way atleast we know our currencies full worth. I am sure though that the people in the higher ups will find a way to screw that up again such as they did so the FED could come in and save the day....

Its such a hard debate to win either way because we end up arguing each others points.........

Originally posted by Equinox99
reply to post by logician magician

 

The government has no hand in the FED. The government can only regulate it and they are doing a poor job. Who owns the FED? Just follow the people who own the most shares.

1. Rothschild Bank of London
2. Warburg Bank of Hamburg
3. Rothschild Bank of Berlin
4. Lehman Brothers of New York
5. Lazard Brothers of Paris
6. Kuhn Loeb Bank of New York
7. Israel Moses Seif Banks of Italy
8. Goldman, Sachs of New York
9. Warburg Bank of Amsterdam
10. Chase Manhattan Bank of New York.

You may not think there is a conspiracy but you don't see the bigger picture. I suggest doing a little more research then what you already know.
All you are doing is trying to protect a thief who is robbing everyone, while you sit here and argue otherwise.

What do you think about number 4 now that they went bankrupt? Where were the illuminatti to bail them out?

I'm thinking of something that is owned privately, but controlled by the government...

How about my car? I'm pretty much restricted where I can go by laws, roads, and police.

reply to post by logician magician


Apples and oranges. The FED are not printing off cars and lending them to people. You still have not answered my question. Where are we going to get
enough money to pay off all of our debts? What happens when the debts go out of control and there is no money left to pay?

reply to post by logician magician


Logician magician....there the same thing. Being bailed out by the Gov. is the same thing as being bailed out by the FEDS. Its like saying, what came first, the chicken or the egg. When there the same thing it doesn't really matter.

The problem is no one has a solution, except for Ron Paul. Can we really vote for someone other than Mcain or Osama??? The problem is that either one is going to screw us in the long run and we can't do anything about it.

Its almost like the Democratic system has turned into something else. Look at the history in elections prior to Ross Perot. There has ALWAYS been a two way race for the White House from lets say 1950's until Ross Perot came. This was almost the norm. Ross Perot became such a thorn in the agenda, which HE EVEN MIGHT HAVE BEEN A PART, that laws were formed to basically limit anyone out of the two parties to have a chance to be elected.

Look at most of the fund raising commericals after Katrina and you find the real answer to your question. Two of the most so called hated rivals in politics, Old Bush and Bill Clinton, raising a lot of money hand in hand in the name of Politics.

reply to post by logician magician


This is the first time I have blogged this site. I have enjoyed most of the posts and have always been curious about the "Fed. Res.". My last ecinomics prof gave us the book version of everything from marketing to national and international ecinomics but, when someone asked him about this topic he avoided it. Perhaps it waould cause too much speculation.
"Logi.. Magi.." I believe you have had made your point many times over that you do not agree with the idea that The Federal Reserve is a government agency. You have also made your point that you have little repect for the bloggers on ATS.
Keeping in mind that it is always good to question an idea in order to keep us thinking. Wouldn't, for your own peace of mind, it be better to find a site that people think more as you do. I mean it seems as though you are having a rough time of it and shouldn't we all strive for happiness rather than conflict.
Peace and Love be with you all
:cool

reply to post by hoochymama


I definitly agree. It seems that both sides of this debate have valid points. If you do your reasearch and open somebooks you will see that the Fedral Reserve was a result of banking failures and a compromise by Gov., Decentralization advocates and People such as Mr. Morgan. While I do not believe this has been a well thought out plan or conspiracy by our financial elite I do believe that it has been used to gain and maintain a certain unbalanced edge financialy in favor of the elite.
I strongly support my government but it is ignorant to deny the obviouos mishandling of our financial institutions today.

Here is a site about the Fed and its the basis of its history, "FED101".
"http://www.federalreserveeducation.org/fed101/history/"

As stated before. Perhaps it is not so much the complaits about those whom mislead and abuse the great people of this land but how do we fix our financial situations and work in unity to make this country and world a better place.

Peace and Love to you all

Well written OP. Accurate too if you were a representative of a private bank lecturing to an economics 101 class trying to convince a bunch of impressionable students that working in the banking sector is a good career choice
I think Jim Marrs "Rule By Secrecy" 2000 should set straight the finer details of your theory................check it out.

Without linking any evidence, I've always had the impression that Fed could be summed up as being a private entity that is a part of the government, but so powerful it actually has control over the government that it is a part of. Does that fly with any of you?

Originally posted by Equinox99
reply to post by logician magician

 

Apples and oranges. The FED are not printing off cars and lending them to people. You still have not answered my question. Where are we going to get
enough money to pay off all of our debts? What happens when the debts go out of control and there is no money left to pay?

Do you not know where we get money to pay off the debt? Taxes come to mind.

"When the debt goes out of control" I'm not sure what you mean by that, what happens when you get out of control? It doesn't really mean anything.

A debt is not necessarily a bad thing anyway. Many times it's an investment. You rack up a lot of debt to get a 4 year degree or to go to medical school, but it pays off in the long run.

Perhaps the country is just going through medical school right now.

Since when does federally regulated = part of the government. Do you realize how big that would make the US government?

Originally posted by MorningStar8741
Since when does federally regulated = part of the government. Do you realize how big that would make the US government?

It might help if you take your blinders off, Mr. Ed.

Personally, I don't feel that the semantic or literal difference between...

1. A federally controlled or federally regulated independent agency of the government
   
   and
   
   
2. A federally regulated privately owned company
   

...matters to the feasibility of conspiracy theories, provided that there is, at any point, collusion between individuals or groups in said government and said agency or company who have the same agendas conspiracy theorists attribute to either, or to both.

Regardless of the nature and structure of the Federal Reserve, and what exactly it is or isn't, the power it wields is still irrefutable in my opinion. I'm not saying that's a good or bad thing, as I personally don't know what to believe for certain. However, it is my opinion that what we should call it or what it is matters less than the people in its employ and/or overseeing it, and their personal or collective agenda(s.)

If there’s a conspiracy (and I don’t know that there is though, like many, I have suspicions,) then it exists whether we call it an apple or an orange.


[edit on 9/18/2008 by AceWombat04]

reply to post by logician magician


Hi! I'm new here and I'm from Germany so I don't know too much about the Federal-System.
But the way I understood it the FED prints all the money and loans it to the government (to you). If so then how can taxes repay the debt created by this "money creation"? The money from the taxes is also produced by the FED...and again against a loan.

If every 1$ you have is actually 1$+a loan then how is it ever possible to repay? In my understanding it isn't.


And that's completelly aside of the "fact" that the FED owns the GOV or the GOV owns the FED or the FED is the GOV or the GOV is the FED or,or,or...


to me it seems you're in alot of trouble anyways....

I'd be delighted to be prooven wrong!

[edit on 18-9-2008 by zolom]

Originally posted by logician magician

Originally posted by Equinox99
reply to post by logician magician

 

The government has no hand in the FED. The government can only regulate it and they are doing a poor job. Who owns the FED? Just follow the people who own the most shares.

1. Rothschild Bank of London
2. Warburg Bank of Hamburg
3. Rothschild Bank of Berlin
4. Lehman Brothers of New York
5. Lazard Brothers of Paris
6. Kuhn Loeb Bank of New York
7. Israel Moses Seif Banks of Italy
8. Goldman, Sachs of New York
9. Warburg Bank of Amsterdam
10. Chase Manhattan Bank of New York.

You may not think there is a conspiracy but you don't see the bigger picture. I suggest doing a little more research then what you already know.
All you are doing is trying to protect a thief who is robbing everyone, while you sit here and argue otherwise.

What do you think about number 4 now that they went bankrupt? Where were the illuminatti to bail them out?

I'm thinking of something that is owned privately, but controlled by the government...

How about my car? I'm pretty much restricted where I can go by laws, roads, and police.

When the Illuminati, or whoever is really the wizzard of oz here, lets a bank goes down it's mearly playing slight of hand. The credits that bank owns go to another bank in the con system, the debits, the money it owes, simply vanishes, hurting banks not in the con system.

It's all institutionalized thievery. Thats what I think of Nº4.

reply to post by zolom


Actually, it is a lot more complicated than that. Here is a very good site that will give you a basic understanding of how the Fed works:
money.howstuffworks.com...

Of course, the devil is in the details, and in this case, the decision making, which in MHO is somewhat like an auto mechanic that is not sure what is actually wrong with your car, so they start to change parts and hope the problem goes away. Sometimes, what they do, makes things worse. In my opinion, that is exactly what the Fed, and Alan Greenspan did over the last decade- make money supply so available through epic-setting low interest rates. This caused the housing market to heat up, risky loans were made, and then the entire house of cards fell down. Since the economies of the world are so interconnected, as well as the banking systems, the negative effect has reverberated throughout the world. Hardest hit outside of the US is Europe, with Asia to a much lesser extent.

reply to post by logician magician


To answer your questions, what happened to number 4 (Lehman Bros), don't fight something just because you don't want to believe its true. It has been a fact for over 100 years that the wealth of this nation seeks to re-accumulate rather than redistribute. If the SEC wasn't controlled by the Banks and Insurance Companies then there might be some resistance to this. Many of the banks that are going bust are a result of saturation of shares in the bank by public distribution (i.e joe everyman buying 100 shares for his retirement). What is the best way to gain control of a valuable asset for pennies on the dollar ? Well, drive the stock price down of course !! Then when all of the little people panic, you can buy it for nothing. The operative question here is who is buying Number 4, as well as Wa. Mu? and the others? Now you have your answer as to why all of this is occurring. The only real losers are the little guys not in the know. The worst part about it all is that they want to purchase the good asset and infrastructure and dump the bad investment to the US taxpayers. We need a revolution in this country before it ceases to be ours. If it isn't already too late.

well its no secret that the Federal Reserve was written into existence in secret on an island behind locked doors. Doesn't sound like the government to me.

Good post. But I think debunking is not the issue here (as with most conspiracy stuff which has been thoroughly debunked in some form or another). This stuff is fairly complicated. People like a grand narrative of evil, something simple to explain these complex political and economic systems that they don't understand. As you say, 10 minutes on any conspiracy website gives you enough simple crap to regurgitate.