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Federal Reserve Conspiracy Debunked for Good.

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posted on Sep, 17 2008 @ 05:52 PM
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If the federal reserve is part of the government then why is the money created loaned to us at interest?

And why is the interest money never created.

If we have a 9 trillion dollar debt, then it means we OWE someone that money. To whom do we owe that money too? And why do the interest payments go to the federal reserve for the national debt?



[edit on 17-9-2008 by badmedia]




posted on Sep, 17 2008 @ 05:59 PM
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reply to post by logician magician
 

I know it is off topic but as you started it: Could you please back up your claim that Fluoride is a healthy addition to our water supply?
Why do we need it at all when toothpaste contains it.

And if it is so healthy, why have most European countries banned it? No CIA there..

What could possibly the motive be to have people with bad health?


[edit on 17/9/08 by Lebowski achiever]



posted on Sep, 17 2008 @ 06:48 PM
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Originally posted by badmedia

If we have a 9 trillion dollar debt, then it means we OWE someone that money. To whom do we owe that money too?



It's pretty simple. It's owed to people/corporations/states/cities/counties/foreign countries who have bought securities from the United States government.

You can buy a government bond. Say you buy a 20 year $20,000 bond at 4.5%. Once you do that, the government has to calculate it's debt to you. You are now a creditor of the government. They owe you money because you have FINANCED YOUR GOVERNMENT.

You give the Government $20,000 to do what it will, and in 20 years, it has to pay you back $20,900. Of course, those bonds suck.

Just like YOU can by a government bond, so can YOU if you OWNED A BANK - only you'd buy it under your incorporated bank name. If you did OWN a bank, you'd see the profit in this, and buy A LOT, making you a big creditor to the government.

T-Bills, which are bought mostly by banks (who then become creditors short term) purchase a $1000 T-bill for say $990 (they are discounted) After 28 or 52 days, the government PAYS THEM $1000. You see how the government owes money to YOUR bank with that transaction?

They get the money up front and promise to pay it back to YOU. Say YOU purchases these bills to FINANCE YOUR GOVERNMENT!!! (Yes, the PEOPLE finance the government) and bought 1 million worth of these $1000 bills, you'd get $10,000 dollars back in just about a month.

Imagine if you were bill gates, with 65 billion dollars, and you purchased 20 billion worth of those bills. After a month or 2 OF FINANCING YOUR GOVERNMENT, you'd get back $20 million in interest that the government owes to YOU.

It's that interest that the government pays back that is the majority of the deficit. The government is going to pay you back with "money out of thin air" if it has the money or not - it doesn't like to do that though, and so needs to maintain a budget and adjust it accordingly so it's not printing too much money out of thin air, increasing the money supply, and you know the rest.

This does NOT MEAN that those people OWN the government. It doesn't mean that YOUR BANK owns the government. Just because 25% of the deficit is foreign credit, does not mean that foreign countries OWN the government.

The confusion comes in because although people don't believe the government should have ultimate power, they somehow believe that the government should have ultimate power over the money supply - which would probably be a huge mistake because people like President Bush could have their way completely.

If the government is SPENDING MORE (because of a War) than it is receiving though funding by taxes, securities, etc.. then it has to issue new debt in the form of more securities (i.e the debt that the government owes your bank after you give them $20 billion).

As I said earlier, they can also, instead of selling treasury securities, can "print money out of thin air" They'd do this when they aren't getting enough financing from the securities. When this happens, guess who buys the securities?

The Federal Reserve system does!!! Nobody wants this to happen, because when it does it means the government is buying securities from itself, and therefore increasing the money supply and devaluing the dollar, which also increases taxes since the government needs to peg up the value of it's money with extra money.

Of course, I'm just trying to explain it Barney style. The REAL CONSPIRACY KOOKS would say, "Hey, maybe this Federal Reserve owns the government thing is illumintti CIA propaganda aimed at destroying the US Government!! I better learn both sides of this: the conspiracy side, and the real economic science behind it so that I have a better picture of everything"

Of course, nobody on ATS would do that because it's filled with lazy, second rate conspiracy types who believe everything they read as long as it PLACES BLAME AND POINTS THE FINGER.




posted on Sep, 17 2008 @ 06:54 PM
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Originally posted by Lebowski achiever
reply to post by logician magician
 

I know it is off topic but as you started it: Could you please back up your claim that Fluoride is a healthy addition to our water supply?
Why do we need it at all when toothpaste contains it.

And if it is so healthy, why have most European countries banned it? No CIA there..

What could possibly the motive be to have people with bad health?

[edit on 17/9/08 by Lebowski achiever]


I don't think I ever said fluoride is a healthy addition to our water supplies. I may have said that there is no concrete evidence that it is unhealthy in moderate amounts though.

By the way, as much as people on this site "research" about these topics. I'm surprised nobody mentioned that the recent "news story" about a "government sponsored" report claiming that fluoride was unhealthy wasn't actually a real news release. It was written and uploaded to a PR site where anyone can write articles, and written by "New York State Coalition Opposed to Fluoridation, Inc"

www.pr-inside.com...

It doesn't refer to a recent "government sponsored report" either. What it does refer to is a REVIEW OF A 2006 GOVERNMENT REPORT by "The International Society for Fluoride Research" (and a book that costs $60 to download) where they do little more than berate the EPA. It basically talks about fluoride dangers in rats, and all the references for their information comes from a bunch of obscure reports.

f you really get by on that quality of information, I have a few sites for you:

1) www.jewwatch.com... to learn all about jews.

2) You can go here: www....[hate-site-nolink]/forum/
to learn all about black people too.

3) www.torah.org... to learn all about gentiles.

4) www.jordanmaxwell.com... to learn that your all capital letter name is not you, because you are a flesh and blood person.

5) www.biblegateway.com... to learn about homosexuals and how the universe was created.

It's all true, I promise!



posted on Sep, 17 2008 @ 07:07 PM
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reply to post by logician magician
 


Sorry but I find all of your links offensive. It also has nothing to do with my question.
I think I know what I am up against so do not bother answering it. You have already in your own special way.



posted on Sep, 17 2008 @ 07:16 PM
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post removed because the user has no concept of manners

Click here for more information.

[SNIP]

DO NOT EDIT MODERATOR EDITS.



[edit on 18-9-2008 by elevatedone]



posted on Sep, 17 2008 @ 07:20 PM
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reply to post by logician magician
 


Even more offensive rhetoric from you when I, quite rightly so, ask for proof to back up your claims. I am not claiming anything. I am asking questions so I am afraid that if any lies are being spouted it is probably by the person who spouts "facts". Oh.. and that means you.

Bye for now!



posted on Sep, 17 2008 @ 07:43 PM
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You've posted nothing but lies in this entire thread.

www.richmondfed.org...


Can I invest in Treasury securities or buy savings bonds at my local Federal Reserve Bank? No.


You have to buy them from the treasury. The fed also buys these from the treasury and then apply fractional banking practices to it.

So why does the fed have to buy bonds from the treasury if it's part of the government?

And how do you justify talking about what anyone says on ATS after you posted trying to claim the LHC was a device to communicate with aliens?

This entire thread should be marked as HOAX.

[edit on 17-9-2008 by badmedia]



posted on Sep, 17 2008 @ 07:50 PM
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Also, if it's a government agency, then why do they have stockholders? I've never heard of buying stock in other forms of government. I thought the people owned the government, not private stock holders.



posted on Sep, 17 2008 @ 09:06 PM
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OP I think you have it backwards. The Fed OWNS the government and not the other way around. Think about this. All this money being spent in bailouts how many votes have we seen? How many taxpayers have been asked THEIR opinion. None!!!! The fact is an unelected private organization has caused yet another of the many financial crisis and we the taxpayer get to pay for it. Yes your right the conspiracy has been debunked but it is just the opposite the FED OWNS THE GOVERNMENT AND US!!!!



posted on Sep, 17 2008 @ 09:09 PM
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Originally posted by logician magician


The President of the United States appoints the Chairman of the Federal Reserve, and the Board of Governors, who elect 3 of, and approve/regulate the actions of the other 6 elected Board of Directors at each Federal Reserve bank.


Who do you think gives the list to the president to choose from hmm? You think that the president just picks someone? No he gets a list created by the FED and then they choose. You know the same we get two crappy candidates to choose from?



posted on Sep, 17 2008 @ 09:14 PM
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Originally posted by logician magician


This does NOT MEAN that those people OWN the government. It doesn't mean that YOUR BANK owns the government. Just because 25% of the deficit is foreign credit, does not mean that foreign countries OWN the government.


Of course, nobody on ATS would do that because it's filled with lazy, second rate conspiracy types who believe everything they read as long as it PLACES BLAME AND POINTS THE FINGER.



Hmm so any country that gives the government billions of dollars does not have a say in our government? Hmm try telling that to all the arab states that hold a lot of our debt. The fact is the only person who is second rate is you. Anyone with common sense or knows anything about business is when you have investors generally they get a say in how things are run. Who says that with governments it isnt the same thing. Hell how many puppet governments does the US control because of this very issue. Take another sip of Kool Aid sheeple and please add some sugar.



posted on Sep, 17 2008 @ 09:25 PM
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reply to post by logician magician
 





If you would like someone like Bush in charge of monetary policy, I'm sure you'd also like the greatest depression ever, and WWIII at the same time.

I'm wondering if he could have done worse. Greenspan did a pretty good job of getting us into the mess we're in now. After all, it was his "easy money" policy, and his banker friends, that caused the housing crisis and the resultant financial crisis.

www.marketoracle.co.uk...


Mr. Greenspan, you have been the individual most responsible for the current crisis; a crisis which commenced only a few years after you tried to minimize the dotcom collapse, which of course you also created. By flooding the banks with ridiculously low interest rates you thought this Ponzi scheme economy could run on worthless money forever. But when you saw the end was coming, you quietly made your exit.
our tenure as Fed Chairman will go down in history as the most destructive to any developed nation in history, costing Americans over $20 trillion for both bubble implosions combined. Yet, you remain in denial about your role in these catastrophes. Instead, you point fingers. To make matters worse, you have taken a position with Paulson & Co., the hedge fund that made $13 billion shorting sub-prime debt…debt that you were responsible for creating. That is a slap in the face to all Americans. Have you no conscious?

Perhaps the most disgraceful and cowardiss act of your tenure was your timely exit just before the apocalypse began, leaving Bernanke to clean up your mess. Now you continue to act as if everyone would be anxious to hear your Monday morning quarterbacking. You actually have the audacity to propose government regulations for bailouts? Without your irresponsible monetary policy and disregard for regulation of banks, none of this would have happened.




Everything that you posted in the OP, does nothing but disprove your contention.



posted on Sep, 17 2008 @ 09:54 PM
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i personally believe that the FED really owns the governemnt, as well as others behind the scenes.

but if your thread is true, then why would the government borrow money from the FED, that is instantly taxed 50% as soon as its borrowed? is it just to make money off of themselves? if thats the case, then the US Government really is not 19 trillion dollars in debt?



posted on Sep, 17 2008 @ 10:32 PM
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Hasn't it got to the point where it doesn't matter who's doin who or what's doin what. We are being screwed over, unless we are willing to do something this information is useless!

They say knowing is half the battle, now what?

You can take that to the (Fed) bank...

[edit on 17-9-2008 by TheHunted]



posted on Sep, 17 2008 @ 10:52 PM
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Originally posted by Lebowski achiever
reply to post by logician magician
 


Even more offensive rhetoric from you when I, quite rightly so, ask for proof to back up your claims. I am not claiming anything. I am asking questions so I am afraid that if any lies are being spouted it is probably by the person who spouts "facts". Oh.. and that means you.

Bye for now!


Proof to back up my claims? Why don't you search for real proof that disqualifies my claims.

It's simple, you'd rather spend 10 minutes reading a conspiracy site that sums up a bunch of misguided information, rinse and repeat for a few months until the misguided disinformation is ingrained in your head.

You won't go to an authoritative website, read economics books, or listen to economists because you think it's part of the conspiracy!

How can I attempt to answer any questions when the responses I get have absolutely no substance and look like this?

I doubt that is completely correct.

im sure these regulations are easily combated if you are one of the wealthiest

the FED protects the interests of banking elite, economic powers and corporate will.

It doesn't matter how you paint this... it's always going to stink.

I want what the OP is smoking

Now show me where in the constitution it says that corporations IN ANY FORM can print money? Can you? Thought not. Thus: epic fail.

Well, thank god for that. Now that you've cleared those things up, I'll just go about my day.

This is a load of crap.

The only way the "government" is taking over these things is if the fed "owns" the government.

Could you please back up your claim that Fluoride is a healthy addition to our water supply?

You've posted nothing but lies in this entire thread.

OP I think you have it backwards.

the FED OWNS THE GOVERNMENT AND US!!!!

Who do you think gives the list to the president to choose from hmm?

Everything that you posted in the OP, does nothing but disprove your contention.

It's like I'm in a Christian forum trying to say that the earth is billions of years old. You've all obviously made up your mind already. You've come to a conclusion, and no outside information is going to break through the barrier around your brain.

I tried to simplify it as much as I could, but you won't even read it, you won't even verify it, you won't even consider it.

You are all (well, most of you) closed minded.

Yours Truely,
The disinfo shill who is running a CIA disinfo propaganda campaign, amirite?



posted on Sep, 17 2008 @ 10:53 PM
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The OP tries really hard - have to give them credit for that. But I too see through the veil and instead see more confirmation of the opposite stance he's trying to make.



posted on Sep, 17 2008 @ 11:07 PM
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The lesson for everyone here is:

"Don't ever tell a conspiracy theorist that his conspiracy doesn't exist."

or

"Don't ever tell a religion man that his God doesn't exist."

Because in the face of all the evidence to the contrary, they both have selective cognition and faith that they are right.



posted on Sep, 17 2008 @ 11:16 PM
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Its funny ALMOST how the OP and the posters in this thread, I think, basically agree but dance around the issue by trying to debunk each other over every word written.

I posted a thread in the Breaking Forums which was locked down because there were other threads dealing with the AIG thing, see here, and the reason I posted this is because of a little sentence that normally isn't included when the Government/FED intervenes.

Normally in news articles, when someone gets bailed out, it will say EITHER the Government bailed them out OR the FED bailed them out. Never have I seen the term the Government has taken over through the FED. I sent the Moderator of this thread a message asking why my thread was locked considering that every other thread was discussing the bailout and not really asking/talking about the the question on WHY the Government was TAKING OVER AIG.

I am posting the link for the NY Times article just incase you all can't see the thread for some reason: Federal Reserve gives the Government Control of AIG - First Paragraph

As far as this thread is concerned, how can anyone say that Flouride has Minimal Risk in small quantities. Thats like saying someone should have no problem using a condom with someone who has AIDS.



posted on Sep, 17 2008 @ 11:23 PM
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reply to post by logician magician
 


So the banks which hold the most shares make no profit off of printing money? If they make a profit then it is not a government sector. The FED pays $.03 to print off every dollar. They then turn and lend it to banks for higher interest. The banks then turn around, lend it to us for an even higher interest to earn their money. How is the interest going to be paid? Did you even know that if we gave all of our money circulating to the banks we would still be in debt?

The government has no hand in the FED. The government can only regulate it and they are doing a poor job. Who owns the FED? Just follow the people who own the most shares.

1. Rothschild Bank of London
2. Warburg Bank of Hamburg
3. Rothschild Bank of Berlin
4. Lehman Brothers of New York
5. Lazard Brothers of Paris
6. Kuhn Loeb Bank of New York
7. Israel Moses Seif Banks of Italy
8. Goldman, Sachs of New York
9. Warburg Bank of Amsterdam
10. Chase Manhattan Bank of New York.

You may not think there is a conspiracy but you don't see the bigger picture. I suggest doing a little more research then what you already know.
All you are doing is trying to protect a thief who is robbing everyone, while you sit here and argue otherwise.



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