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Help With Explaining My Beliefs.

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posted on Sep, 16 2008 @ 11:11 PM
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Hey I'm new here and I am asking for your help on something.

I am 16 and I have been talking to my mom about religion and how I don't believe in some of the things they want us to believe. "They" being my parents and our whole Roman Catholic community.

I was thinking and told her that what we think of God could be substituted for anything and it would make the same amount of sense as what she believes. For example, we could substitute God for a can of soup and still have the same morals and values.

She says there is proof that God exists. One was the fulfillment of the old testament. My response was that if you waited long enough, eventually there would be an event that matched the so-called "prophecy."

Her response was, "that is when you just have to believe."

She brought up Jesus performing the miracles.

Wouldn't people have been much less intelligent back in those times? Maybe because they couldn't prove something he did they called it a miracle. He could have also performed the acts of God. I really have no idea.

My mother says that as long as I live with her she is going to make me go to church and classes to help me with my faith. That Christianity is the only way to live, while I think that as long as I am just a kind person that should be good enough without listening to all the things Christians believe.

She wants me to research the reasons people have to believe in God and the reasons people have to not believe. She is convinced that the reasons to believe will largely outweigh those not believing.

I, by no means, think I know close to enough information about either set of views to make a decision. That is why I ask for your help.




posted on Sep, 16 2008 @ 11:24 PM
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I have some bad news for you everyone has opinions on religion and theres multiple however no one can prove any religion to be wrong. Belief is not something that can be changed if you truly believe in something it is real at least to you. So in the end make up your own mind on what you believe and unfortunately until you turn 18 your probably going to be going to church. However you cant establish your own views of religion until you understand peoples belief part of learning.



posted on Sep, 16 2008 @ 11:33 PM
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reply to post by goodflips
 


There is no one true religion, you believe in whatever you want to believe in and feel free to question everything and everyone. "God" did not write the bible regardess of what version you happen to be reading, opinionated mankind wrote it.

Treat others as you would have them treat you is about the only advice I can give to you. Life is short, make the most out of it and don't waste it. There is an afterlife and that's when the real fun begins.



posted on Sep, 16 2008 @ 11:35 PM
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reply to post by dragonridr
 


Its not about going to church, I don't mind that. It is more that I would rather just not have to deal with this. At least until I experience something that might change my mind.

I'm also tired of when I go to the church groups, I will bring something up that contradicts what they are saying and they bring up the same, old, tired points every single time. Mostly just saying the bible is proof and that us being here, living is proof. I'm just sick of it.



posted on Sep, 16 2008 @ 11:36 PM
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reply to post by goodflips
 


Hello,

Blessings to you. You're to young to have to go through this stuff...I feel for you.
In the end it doesn't matter what others believe, It matters what you believe.

I would ask them this. "How does Jesus save me?" "If I am the one that makes the decision to accept Jesus, Jehovah or whatever name, then how is he saving me being that I am making the choice?" I would be calm and patient, but tell them you need an answer you can understand and not, "Just believe" as that is not rational. Realize your parents love you and want to do what they believe is right for you. I know that this is what they did as kids and never questioned it, but you have surpassed them.

Truth is God is in you. We are all a part of him and none are not a part of him. Have peace within yourself, even if having mercy on your parents to "play along". It won't matter what they think in 2 years only what you think.

You can also tell them what Jesus name if spoken in the original language is "Self existent IS salvation" then ask them what that means to them.

Peace friend and be strong



posted on Sep, 16 2008 @ 11:39 PM
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By the way....welcome to the board.

Peace



posted on Sep, 16 2008 @ 11:46 PM
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reply to post by letthereaderunderstand
 


Thanks for your help. I will definitely try that.

All I really want is for them to accept my views on how I should live my life.



posted on Sep, 16 2008 @ 11:55 PM
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No worries. I'm glad to see a young person seeking out truth in themselves. You can also tell them, "Jesus only came to call to repentance the sick, for the healthy have no need of a doctor." He only came to seek the lost sheep. Ask them, "am I a drunk, or a drug addict, a prostitute, someone that lends with usuary, someone that is morally wrong? If they say no you are not those things, then you don't need Jesus to save you, because he only came to call the sick to repent=turn back from deadly sin.

You will do fine, I know cause God is with you, just look in the mirror and toss him a smile. You will see him smiling back...


Peace



posted on Sep, 17 2008 @ 12:26 AM
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At the risk of being confrontational, you are going to need to explain to your mother that you have freedom of religion. But to have freedom of religion, you need to have freedom from religion.

And if someone tells you that the bible is somehow proof, just tell them that you don't believe it is any more. You mother needs to care for you, but you need to let her know that part of that is the nourishment of freethought.

I have a thread that runs along the same vein.



posted on Sep, 17 2008 @ 02:12 PM
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reply to post by goodflips
 


I would suggest that you read everything about spirituality that you can get your hands on. Islam, Judaism, Confusionism, Buddahism, Taoism, Native American beliefs, Wicca, etc. This will help you find the spiritual belief that is right for you, if any. I also was raised Catholic, and went to school for 9 years at Our Lady of Perpetual Guilt, so I know where you are at! This worked for me, and now I'm a proud Wiccan. This belief works for me, because it encourages individual thought and worship of the Divine. It only requires that you adhere to the Wiccan Rede, which boils down to "and it harm none, do what ye will". Good Luck, and enjoy the journey!

Blessed Be!

[edit on 17-9-2008 by JaxonRoberts]



posted on Sep, 17 2008 @ 04:54 PM
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I agree with JaxonRoberts, if you are determined to discover your own spirituality, then you need to study, and try and understand where religion comes from, or is coming from i should say.

I have been Pagan as long as i can remember, please do not mix Wicca with Paganism, that has become such a huge debatable inclusion within the Pagan faith.

No doubt you have been told horror stories about Evil Pagans, and Satan worship being what we do, in my faith Satan does not exist outside the word of mouth, and many mistaken misinterpretations, and failure to discover truth.

I would never ever try and convert anyone,I see my faith as an individual decision, to be discovered through experience, also i have never ever met another Pagan who would harm or hurt anyone deliberately, if you study you will see.

Neither would i ever abuse or put another down for their belief in any religion, be it Christian, Satanism, Islam, Judaism, i can have an opinion when i see some churches work and preach, but again its their faith and good on them.

Before i get ripped by someone about the Wicca comment, please don't waste your time, I see Wicca as another attempt to organize Paganism, using the teachings of a thief, pervert, and Liar, but again that is up to the individual involved, I have these thoughts because Wicca was used to abuse someone who i care for very much, and the lies of Gerald Gardner are the building blocks for what happened.



posted on Sep, 17 2008 @ 05:00 PM
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Just for the record, I'm a solitary witch, and do not support the works of covens, nor would I ever join one. This view is like linking all christian faiths with the wackos who handle snakes etc. in the deep south. It's just not fair, and I like many Wiccans do not want to be organized in any way!



posted on Sep, 17 2008 @ 05:51 PM
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Thanks for the help everyone. I'm going to start looking into some religions but I know that I will have to wait because my mother said that she is signing me up for some classes at the church to "further my faith in god."

Hopefully in the next two years I will find something that fits me.



posted on Sep, 17 2008 @ 06:17 PM
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Well I am certainly not going to tell anyone what to believe, other than I think it is good to live by the Golden Rule of do unto others as you would have done unto you.

I believe it is normal to question your beliefs at any age- I know I did for several years. But I would just suck it up and go to the classes your Mom wants you to go to. The more you rebel the more she will probably push. Once you are legally an adult and are living on your own you are free to do and believe what you want.

Good luck to you on your quest for knowledge and truth.



posted on Sep, 17 2008 @ 06:25 PM
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Originally posted by goodflips
Wouldn't people have been much less intelligent back in those times?


People were just as smart thousands of years ago as they are now. We haven't gotten any smarter over the centuries, just a little more educated. But it still doesn't stop people from having to at some point give up trying to rationally make sense of the world and resort to some kind of faith. Faith is what you are left with when you just don't know something and can't prove something, but would still like it to be real.

The biggest problem I have with any of this is that a lot of people will jump in and say they believe in "God," when they really don't know what they're talking about.

Ask anybody who believes in God to specifically define what they mean. I've never found anyone who can properly define God. Most people recognize it as a kind of vague feeling or mish-mash of a lot of contradictory, paradoxical and illogical notions like, God is everywhere in the Universe, for all time, and controls every little tiny thing, but still somehow has a lack of something, and feels motivated to create things and people and be worshiped. That's just foolishness. How can something be both limited and infinite at the same time? How can something that is everything, have any kind of need or motivation?

Do you believe in "------------------?" Yeah? If you don't even know what it is, how can you believe in it? Or not believe in it, for that matter. What are we even talking about? Logically, you can't debate something unless you first agree on the definitions of the things you're debating. And even the people who believe in God can't adequately define it, so that pretty much ends the debate before it starts.

Anyway, that's what I think. I don't believe in "God," and I don't not believe in "God," because I have no clear understanding of the concept.


So if you're going to keep score for your Mom, I think this notion probably goes in the "negative" column, although what it really does is negate the validity of the columns by messing up the definitions and assumptions the columns are based upon.


[edit on 17-9-2008 by Nohup]



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 12:40 AM
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I've said this before and I'll day it again. The Golden rule isn't that great.

At first glance, the rule appears justified. Who wouldn't want to receive treatment the way we wish? And who wouldn't want to give the same treatment to others? However, upon further consideration we come upon problems. Who says that the receiving person wishes to always get treated the way "we" wish? Would most people like to get treated like a masochist from a masochist? Would an atheist like to get treated like a Christian? Would a Christian like to get treated as an atheist? Clearly, the Golden rule can cause severe incompatibilities with the other person involved. The Golden Rule only seems commendable because we impart our own individual concepts without realizing that "doing unto others" can have various meanings to other people who do not think like you do. The Golden Rule actually describes a selfish rule because it reflects upon selfish in-group motives instead of incorporating a system that can work for a diverse society.

Consider that in some cases, treating people the way they would like to get treated works better than the way you would like to get treated. Think about it.



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 03:01 PM
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Originally posted by Nohup

Originally posted by goodflips
Wouldn't people have been much less intelligent back in those times?


People were just as smart thousands of years ago as they are now. We haven't gotten any smarter over the centuries, just a little more educated.


Let's start with this assumption. Although we cannot check ancient people for their IQ, we now have over a century of data to check on the general trend of intelligence, and we are getting smarter, generation by generation.

Increasing Intelligence: The Flynn Effect


The biggest problem I have with any of this is that a lot of people will jump in and say they believe in "God," when they really don't know what they're talking about.

Ask anybody who believes in God to specifically define what they mean. I've never found anyone who can properly define God. Most people recognize it as a kind of vague feeling or mish-mash of a lot of contradictory, paradoxical and illogical notions like, God is everywhere in the Universe, for all time, and controls every little tiny thing, but still somehow has a lack of something, and feels motivated to create things and people and be worshiped.


This is true for most who base their definitions in pure faith, but I'm not one of those people. Defining God has been one of the spiritual quests that has driven me in my religious research. This is how I define 'God' (in quotes because it is not the term I use. I prefer The Source or The One.):

We now know from science that everything in the universe is made up of energy, and that it is all connected. I believe that 'God' is not a supernatural being that created the universe, but the universe itself! We are all a part of a Universal Mind, that is far beyond our understanding, and that it exists in multiple dimensions, including this one where energy vibrates at it's lowest level (matter), and all higher dimensions (what is termed as the afterlife). Quantum String Theory supports, in fact insists, that there are at least 13 dimensions. We know that the first and second generations of stars were the factories that converted simple hydrogen into the complex atoms that comprise everything around us. We are all made of star stuff. I believe we merely the universe trying to understand itself. Imagine you were born without any of your five senses. You would think of the universe as what was in your mind. Now imagine you had the ability to create your senses by just willing it (The Big Bang). I hope you see where I'm going with this.

In response to Good Wolf's response to 'The Golden Rule' post, I couldn't agree more. The 'do unto others' philosophy leave way to much wiggle room to do harm. I subscribe to a better philosophy. 'And it harm none, do what ye will!' While throwing your plastic trash on the ground while visiting the beach would not violate the first philosophy, it would definitely violate the second, as it could blow into the water and cause death and mayhem in the oceans ecosystem, thus causing harm. If only they had put this in the Bible!


[edit on 18-9-2008 by JaxonRoberts]



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 03:06 PM
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okay argueing about the intelligence about people 200 years ago aside i would jsut like to say is that ask more questions. i don't think you have to accept any religion if your not happy with it. i personally believe religion is a sham but i am not one fo those atheists that tries to convert everyone.

if you find the religion that fits you thats great. but if your mother forces you to go to church i doubt she will be too happy with the fact that you don't like Jesus.

i suggest paganism.



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 06:56 PM
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Thanks again to everyone.

I'm still looking into these religions and there is nothing that I really like so far. But my mom is telling me that I'm reading and believing the wrong things. She wants me to read the bible AGAIN.

I'm getting tired of dealing with this and would rather just live my life without putting any importance to a God.

I'm just going to agree with her from now on and act how she wants but that's not how I really feel.



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 08:14 PM
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If playing along is what you feel is the best option then do it, but I can't help but feel that you won't be being true to your self. You're obviously smart as most people in your position don't think enough to look critically at their beliefs, let alone, their religion.

From what you have explained, if I were you I wouldn't let myself be pushed around (or encouraged to not follow my heart). I think you should be firm and dig your heels in.







 
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