It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.


Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.


The Denouement

page: 3
<< 1  2   >>

log in


posted on Sep, 17 2008 @ 07:20 PM
reply to post by jpm1602

"If the American people ever allow private banks
to control the issue of their money,
first by inflation and then by deflation,
the banks and corporations that will
grow up around them (around the banks),
will deprive the people of their property
until their children will wake up homeless
on the continent their fathers conquered."


Thomas Jefferson
(1743-1826), US Founding Father, drafted the Declaration of Independence, 3rd US President

in 1802 in a letter to then Secretary of the Treasury, Albert Gallatin

SLAVERY by the state is what's next. It is naive to think that it can or will be paid off. That's not the point -- the mechanism of poiticians spending money in excess of tax revenues is fueled by the Federal Reserve printing press. *poof* there's more money = inflation => 10$ gas etc ...etc.. you get the picture. Until people are burning their worthless money for heat, the police state is charged with maintaining order, as the world's greatest free power is destroyed economically. Same situation happened in Germany setting the stage for allowing the Nazi party to come to power.

It's an old game, you're just seeing it for the 1st time.

posted on Sep, 17 2008 @ 07:52 PM
reply to post by Grumble

Well said. This is the most intelligent thing I have read all day.

posted on Sep, 17 2008 @ 08:55 PM
Thank you for your kind replies.

I would also add that inflation (and therefore national debt) is a terribly progressive tax. In essence, it taxes the rich more than it taxes the poor. Or, depending on your point of view, it hurts everyone equally, as in, it devalues your dollar denominated assets and income streams by roughly the same percentages. It is, in fact, the closest thing to a flat tax we have, and is really, much, much kinder to the working person than the financial assault that is the payroll tax.

That being said, it hurts those with a fixed income the most, and hurts those whose incomes float with inflation the least. For example, someone who lives off of a fixed annuity will feel the most pain, while the shop owner who can raise his prices with inflation may not be hurt too badly.

Personally, I have chosen a profession where I am paid 100% by commission, so my dollars are "fresh" dollars, and I have chosen to invest in real estate instead of securities. I would highly recommend the same to anyone.

posted on Sep, 17 2008 @ 09:31 PM
reply to post by kdial1

You are kidding. Right? The government makes huge amounts on the black market and in the "justice" system. Legalizing drugs would only take away from the profits being made. Note: This is is money being applied to the national debt. The same goes for the border patrol. It is not about stopping drugs or illegals... it is about dollars. Dollars going in to someones pockets. Most likely not yours or mine! It will all all boil down to a percentage as to what you will lose. What you have and what you don't. Good luck in the times ahead.

posted on Sep, 17 2008 @ 09:33 PM

Originally posted by Grumble
What you have to get over is the idea that money means anything. Specifically, the numbers we use. Millions, billions, or trillions, it is all arbitrary. All that matters is the amount of value we add to in our production and services. That is true wealth.

What does this mean to you? If you accept what I say, then what the government is doing with these bailouts is insure our ecomonic futures.

I find it hard to agree with money meaning nothing. Here is my perspective:

It costs me a full day's pay (after taxes) to fill up my gas tank. This is what money means to me. I fill up my tank fifty two times per year ( at least ) meaning that fifty two days of my work goes to just getting me to my workplace.

When inflation skyrockets, my company will not give me a raise, which means I will make less while everything costs more. In the last two years, I have not received a standard of living increase yet my health insurance goes up, food costs go up, gas prices go up, electricity goes up, natural gas goes up, and my standard of living goes down. It is funny how I am actually one of the lucky ones because I still have a job and health insurance.

You can say that inflation helps our economy theoretically, but if your employer feels that your pay should not increase even though the minimum wage has increased, the idea that your "value" remains constant, doesn't hold water.

They say that theoretically if your house it worth $100,000 that it is better to pay off your house when the dollar has decreased in value because then you can easily pay off your house. That will only work if your pay increases with the inflation. Most employers will only increase employees pay under extreme duress.

No one at my company has seen a bonus or raise in two years and it is unlikely that it will be coming any time soon. People who have complained have been let go and are now unemployed. Try keeping your house with no income.

Employers have us under their thumb and will continue to keep us there as long as this recession lasts.

I used to see school kids having car washes to raise money for school trips or new uniforms. Lately, I have seen families having car washes to feed their families.

Your theory is fine from ivory towers, but from the trenches, it is hard to swallow.

Just my two cents.

[edit on 17-9-2008 by xman_in_blackx]

posted on Sep, 17 2008 @ 09:44 PM
Certainly times are tough for individuals who are in a position where it is difficult to increase their dollar income. Adjustments in the perceptions of what a dollar is worth are slow to come, and salaries at large companies are usually relatively static. Nevertheless, the labor market is just that (an open market), and in the long run wages will adjust.

I think the most difficult thing to accept for Americans has little to do with all of the current Wall Street problems and more to do with the intense global competition they face in the labor market. My recommendation is to orient yourself locally. Don't do what a Chinese person can do. Do what is demanded by those nearest to you. Also, find something to do which will pay you in today's dollars, where what you make changes frequently, like a building contractor for example.

Where you work is a choice. Adjustment is difficult, and change is painful, but you may have to accept that if you wish to have an income commensurate with current conditions, at least in the short run, you may need to step outside of your comfort zone and find new ways to make money.

posted on Sep, 17 2008 @ 09:49 PM
By the way, I noticed you are in Colorado. My wife and I left Colorado back in the early 90's precisely because of the labor market there. It is (or at least was then) the most educated state in the union, and it seemed that having a college education was like having a high school diploma in the midwest. We just got sick of being offered $30,000 professional jobs and being told there were fifty other applicants behind us if we didn't like it.

I loved the place, but I have never regretted leaving. I would never have been able to afford my current standard of living there.

posted on Sep, 17 2008 @ 10:27 PM

Originally posted by Grumble

I think the most difficult thing to accept for Americans has little to do with all of the current Wall Street problems and more to do with the intense global competition they face in the labor market.

In my opinion this is a direct result of capitalism being replaced by corporatism. Demanding HUGE profits for next quarter at all costs. Leaving the consumer high and dry and tanking companies left and right. Pure and simple greed going old school. The rich get richer and the middle class worker vanishes as the company goes belly up. I have seen it. I work in tech and it is still happening.

Companies streamline to the bone paying employees next to nothing while those at the top of the local market get bonuses that are the equivalent of two or three employees annual pay. Crack that whip and get paid. Those at the top of the company make hundreds of millions in bonuses for increasing profits at the expense of the average employees and their consumers.

We are not seen as human beings, but rather surfs. We are just the people who break their backs to help them make their millions. My company is quite large and this is not just happening in Colorado, but nationwide.

It is starting to get very blatant about how they really feel about us "serfs". They might as well tell us "let them eat cake." I am currently out of debt except for my fixed rate mortgage and I am one of the lucky ones.

I feel for those who are doing worse out there. Grumble, you are VERY lucky and are the exception rather than the rule. Count your blessings.

Again, my two cents.

new topics

<< 1  2   >>

log in