Obama Policy: Immigration

2008 Presidential Candidate Platform Discussion

Barack Obama has played a leading role in crafting comprehensive immigration reform. Obama believes the immigration issue has been exploited by politicians to divide the nation rather than find real solutions. This divisiveness has allowed the illegal immigration problem to worsen, with borders that are less secure than ever and an economy that depends on millions of workers living in the shadows.

www.barackobama.com...


Presented for critical discussion and analysis by ATS members under the spirit of the new guidelines announced in This Thread.

First off, it is very hard to believe that "Obama and Biden" will do anything whatsoever to "Overhaul" the Immigration Issue. We are talking about the same guy who attended a rally in front of a large Hispanic Audience, and declared that ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement) Agents are "Terrorists".

The Border must be secured, which is an "Obama and Biden" idea, and it is also shared with McCain.

We should take much of what we currently have manufactured in China, and place more of it in Mexico. This is an "Obama and Biden" idea as well.


We should NOT create a path to Citizenship for Illegals, which is an idea under "Obama and Biden", and is the very same idea which McCain DID champion, but he admitted was wrong as it obviously failed with the American Public at Large.

"Obama and Biden" also wish to go after those Employers who hire Illegal Immigrants, which is already a Bush Administration Policy. Wow, did I understand that correctly, Obama actually wishes to follow a Policy of his arch-nemesis Bush? So I assume Obama does agree with President Bush on some issues after all. Amazing.

Obama has the advantage on this one. Although I must admit that both plans are pretty much similar. McCain loses because of all of the Anti-immigration hysteria that the Republicans have been hyping for quite some time. This has led to profiling and discrimination of Hispanics under the assumption that they might be illegal. Hispanics realize that McCain actually put his name on a bill to help other Hispanics but find it hard to overlook the rhetoric used by Republicans that were against McCain's plan.

Originally posted by TheAgentNineteen
We are talking about the same guy who attended a rally in front of a large Hispanic Audience, and declared that ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement) Agents are "Terrorists".

No. He didn't.

He said that communities are terrorized by ICE immigration raids. And that's the truth. They are. Saying that someone is "terrorized" doesn't necessarily mean that someone is a "terrorist". That word was around long before it was so politically popular to call people "terrorists" and strike fear in the heart of a nation by talking about the threat of "terror".

The communities FEEL terror. Fear. Here's the entire quote if anyone is interested:

"When communities are terrorized by ICE immigration raids, when nursing mothers are torn from their babies, when children come home from school to find their parents missing, when people are detained without access to legal counsel, when all that is happening, the system just isn’t working, and we need to change it."

Source
And I agree with him. The system isn't working and needs to be changed.

I'm with you, jam. Both plans are so similar. I like Obama's push to bring them out of the shadows. I think the hysteria around illegal immigration has pushed them into hiding and it's very unfortunate. Fear has been used once again to manipulate people. But as I have said before, if either Obama's or McCain's plan gets enacted, we will be fortunate.

reply to post by TheAgentNineteen

We are talking about the same guy who attended a rally in front of a large Hispanic Audience, and declared that ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement) Agents are "Terrorists".

Mods, please move this over to the "Deconstructing Disinformation" forum so we can stay on topic and still tear this BALD FACED LIE to pieces.
Nice lie.....I mean try.

Even though both plans are similar (and unfortunately they have to be, because both candidates are hostages of the Hispanic vote), McCain's name is forever tainted by his support of the amnesty for illegals. Period.

Any kind of plan that does not involve massive deportation is not good enough for me.

reply to post by buddhasystem


I can understand your desire for mass deportation but I don't agree. I see this similar to the Banking crisis. Do you blame the people who signed the subprime mortgage contracts or do you blame the predatory lenders or for that matter Congress? A Congress, both party included, who turned a blind eye to what was going on. The same is true about the illegals.

Regardless of how you personally feel about them, whether one debate if they help or hurt the economy, they are here and have to be dealt with because Congress (includes Federal Government) turned a blind eye.

After the 1986 Amnesty, Congress had laws on the book to prevent employers from hiring illegals. I believe it was a fine of $10,000 per head. It was seldom used. When illegals were caught at the border one of two things happened. If they were from Mexico they were simply deported back with no booking or anything. If they were an OTM, Other Than Mexican, they were issued a slip of paper telling them to appear before a judge on a certain day. Many never showed up and the government never went after them. In other words, they the government was very lax on illegals coming in and working in our country. This laxness continued until 9/11. After that illegals, especially Mexicans was the topic of the day. For 15 years America welcomed them with open arms. I wonder how many illegals worked for Congress members during those 15 years cleaning their yard, houses, cooking, taking care of their kids. Now many of these people have acclimatized to our way of life. Many of their kids live and believe in the American way. Many don't even know Mexico. Yet many people want to blame the illegals rather than the people who allowed them to stay in the first place. Just like it is our government duty to fix the banking crisis they help to create, it is also our government responsibility to fix the immigration problem that they contributed to as well. Obama and McCain are both right, we need too deal with this in a humane way. I don't think that ICE entering a chicken plant with guns blazing is a humane way. Maybe once we fix this problem, the federal government won't be so keen on turning a blind eye again.

[edit on 18-9-2008 by jam321]

Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by buddhasystem

 

I can understand your desire for mass deportation but I don't agree. I see this similar to the Banking crisis. Do you blame the people who signed the subprime mortgage contracts or do you blame the predatory lenders or for that matter Congress? A Congress, both party included, who turned a blind eye to what was going on. The same is true about the illegals.

Oh, but your analogy is poor, I am sorry to say. Illegals did not enter any kind of contract. They knew full well that they were running afoul of the US law. It's as simple as that.

Just for the record, I am an immigrant and it hasn't been too easy for me (I'm not complaining), and I didn't break any laws.

buddhasystem, so what you are telling me is that all of those people who lied on those contracts did not break the law.

As much as 70 percent of recent early payment defaults had fraudulent misrepresentations on their original loan applications, according to one recent study.

source

Anyhow, many did break the law. However, I don't want to continue down this road cause it will only lead to people jumping in bashing illegals. The point of the thread is Obama's plan and like I said before he has the advantage on this one.

Obamas plan is tilted to help the Illegal aliens , Why not go the other way and help the citizens of the U.S.A, The problems are he wants to bring them out of the shadows , What shadows are we talking about , There are no shadows this is a perpetrated fraud ,They are working in full site of every Govt agency that is sworn to to keep them out of the country . Another perpetrated fraud is that three are no jobs that Americans wont do , Don't make me laugh , The Illegal aliens do the same things Americans do , Show me one job that an American wont do if the pay scale is a livable wage,

BUILD A WALL DEPORT THEM ALL WE are in a recession and cant give them the benefits that are gonna drive the middle class tax base through the roof,

Hasta la vista, baby

Neither Obama or McCain will do anything about the illegals, hell I don't even think the subject ever come up during the first debate.
California is going bankrupt because of this issue and they choose to pick the low lying fruit.

Here's a few of Obama's plans for Mexico.

� Increase technology and real-time intelligence-sharing to allow U.S. and Mexican authorities to track and dismantle drug-trafficking cartels.

� Invest in anti-drug education on both sides of the border to reduce demand for illicit narcotics.

� Make a concerted effort to disrupt arms smuggling and money laundering from the United States that supplies Mexican drug cartels with weapons and funds.

� Partner with Mexico to enhance the professionalism of its law enforcement and judiciary officials.

www.blacklistednews.com...


Thanks, Barack, for more vague and inspiring comments. First off, increase technology and real-time intelligence-sharing with Mexico? That would take quite a close relationship to develop co-policing of two less-than peaceful nations. Mexico (and come on, the US too) certainly has no history of corrupt law enforcement, either. Strike one.

Second, drug trafficking legislation is a joke, as we all know the CIA works hand-in-hand with the drug lords of both Mexico and Central America. If the taxpayer-funded education decreases demand, they'll find another way to keep it high. Strike two.

Third, make a concerted effort to disrupt arms smuggling and money laundering from the United States that supplies Mexican drug cartels with weapons and funds. Whatever, just people pleasing rhetoric. What politician wouldn't claim this?

Finally, Partner with Mexico to enhance the professionalism of its law enforcement and judiciary officials. Partner? PARTNER WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT AND JUDICIARY OFFICIALS?!


THESAURUS
Main Entry: partnership
Part of Speech: noun
Synonyms: affiliation, alliance, association, business, cahoot (slang), cahoots, cartel, company, conglomerate, copartnership, firm, gang, marriage, organization, ring, union


So, Barack says let's have a partnership (alliance, organization, cartel, union) with the executive and judiciary branches of the Mexican government. Two NORTH AMERICAN countries in perfect UNION. Strike three.

Originally posted by whitl103
Finally, Partner with Mexico to enhance the professionalism of its law enforcement and judiciary officials. Partner? PARTNER WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT AND JUDICIARY OFFICIALS?!


THESAURUS
Main Entry: partnership
Part of Speech: noun
Synonyms: affiliation, alliance, association, business, cahoot (slang), cahoots, cartel, company, conglomerate, copartnership, firm, gang, marriage, organization, ring, union


So, Barack says let's have a partnership (alliance, organization, cartel, union) with the executive and judiciary branches of the Mexican government. Two NORTH AMERICAN countries in perfect UNION. Strike three.

I don't think there is anything wrong with "alliance". For all I know, NATO is one an example of allliance. There are all sorts of bilateral treaties and joint activities as well. I don't see how increased cooperation with Mexico (if it works, which is not guaranteed) can be evil by principle.

This Immigration issue should be second to none...

Instead, immigration is not going to be mentioned at all...

La Raza has this country by the balls...

The Vast majority of ALL PROBLEMS facing this country right now is the Result of the illigal immigration problem...


We know Jaun McCain is going to only ruther destroy our boarders...
Obama himself is an illigal alien...


So what are we to do...

We are Phucked... striaight screwed...



For all real Americans, those that love this country, we are in the darkest of days...

We are presented with a choice of 2 diffrent versions of the same thing.

The Enemy within...


I just dont know what to do... the country is unraveling in front of our eyes and everyone ignores the reasons why...
I think i am just going to buy a sail boat, and leave.
Thats all, just sail away, disapear over the horizen and thats it.
Mabye settle in a small south-western pacific island...

Far FAR away from this place...

reply to post by TKainZero


I guess the 700Billion Bailout plus can be attributed to the illegal immigrants also. So 12 million undocumented workers are to blame for Vast majority of ALL PROBLEMS facing this country right now?

Wow, never imagined that 12 could outweigh 300 million in causing so many problems.

This is a good example how we give our politicians a pass. Illegal immigration is a symptom not the cause. The blame are the 535 members on Capitol Hill who for years upon years have refused to address the needs of America. Instead they have taken care of the needs of businesses and that is why we are were we are today.

TK, I see where you coming from but politicians are to blame for the Vast majority of ALL PROBLEMS facing this country right now.

Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by TKainZero

 

TK, I see where you coming from but politicians are to blame for the Vast majority of ALL PROBLEMS facing this country right now.

But getting mad at politicans for not doing thier job, is like getting mad at a dog for peeing inside...

We are alowing the politicans to do this, by not voting them out, the same way we are resonsible for taking our dog out, otherwise they will just go on the floor...



I stopped expecting my goverment to do anything for me a While back...

And for this finnancial meltdown, i would LOVE to see what the percentages are. what percentage of forclousures are on illligals?
What percentage of those that are forclosed on should have NEVER been in that house to begin with?
What percentage of the forclosed houses were the lending agencies FORCED to give out loans on?


You will NEVER see answers to those questions... because we are relying on the MSM to ask them

Originally posted by buddhasystem
I don't think there is anything wrong with "alliance". For all I know, NATO is one an example of allliance. There are all sorts of bilateral treaties and joint activities as well. I don't see how increased cooperation with Mexico (if it works, which is not guaranteed) can be evil by principle.

NATO purposely killed over 3000 Yugoslavian civilians in 1999. They bombed trains, busses and homes. That's only one instance. And now that you mention bilateral treaties, why not discuss the noble efforts of the Trilateral Commission?

Once upon a time an alliance would've seemed great to me. But I've done far too much research on those who actually make the decisions. I don't find Obama any more trustworthy than NATO, sorry.

Originally posted by buddhasystem
Even though both plans are similar (and unfortunately they have to be, because both candidates are hostages of the Hispanic vote), McCain's name is forever tainted by his support of the amnesty for illegals. Period.

Any kind of plan that does not involve massive deportation is not good enough for me.

That was one of the worse things that was drafted during the Bush administration. Dont quote me, I cant source the info right now. But there was a report put out this last summer. That Illegals were leaving the country in record numbers and going back to Mexico. Because the economy was so bad. LMAO, I guess thats one way to handle them.

California is going broke because their source of revenue has been cut,with the mortgage debacle all those property taxes they were counting on have been blown into the wind,all these dumb environmental laws,that created jobs ,the poor from Oregon,the south come here and live on welfare,you'll find that the majority of illegal aliens don't not collect welfare,they have a tendency to stay under the wire in fear of deportation,I do agree the issue must be resolved but it iiritates me that some of the little to no educated,people using that as an excuse,I think put the blame were the blame belongs

Can anyone tell me just what it is that Obama DOES stand for on immigration. As far as I could tell, he just wants to "change" it.