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11 dead in soccer witchcraft riot

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posted on Sep, 17 2008 @ 07:27 PM
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Which craft, voodoo, magic can all be done right? Is that not how you all know it is so true?

witch craft and magic are the same things-a label that can engluf any subjects with no current scientific or western explaination. Hoodoo or the westernized corruption, again, voodoo is a religion. If I were to summon a vibration that would allow you to hear something 'in your head'(like a voice with noone being around) you would say thats magic, but if I understood how the laws of the universe work this is possible, some of us have to create ideal clones (machines) to achieve some things people can do...."Witchcraft" is simply something our westernized minds cant accept, because we would have to go through our files and history and discard some of our primal theories we subscribe to. We do this all the time all of newtons theories were not relevant, aristotle was know as the greatest thinker to 'some' and later on the the same 'some' demoted him for not appreciating and understanding the concept of zero, and in its full value, he got by without it for a while but...
Thanx for the invite. But, allow me to humbly decline because I have been showing people things for years. Sometimes 1 answer can give you a million more questions. Things of that nature can only be understood by literally 'walking the path'.



You know, I would love someone to explain how someone could find water with just a stick. There ya go.

see when you mentally digest that concept, you simply get nothing in return. Now if you understood that everything that exists with time/space/brain has a specific vibration in the Universe, you can be going somewhere. and notice how every thing is 'ultra' tuned. Noone ever ask "when I look at the tree, why did the universe give it the vibration for my brain to see it as we do I mean its timbre the reason green is green. You have to understand things on that level. Imagine if you gave every thing you ever encountered some numbers to 'name' its vibration lets use a leaf. It takes some million places to 'name or measure' the leaf. The numbers appear as if thier randomly placed(but there not,its just the value), say you made the leaf encounter a rock. those numbers alongside each other represent a whole new vibration no matter what type of math you apply, how does that effect your(a humans) vibration. It must effect it somekind of way. I hope that helped.
The "sticks" are usually composed(the real true ones) of some crazy stones and metal that capture the vibration and allow it to resonate like the mechanism within the great pyramid...
I thought you guys were researchers, you just scrap away anything that doesnt fit into the comfortable safety zone of being, the truth is all of our physics and science(s) have covered in the known universe about imo the same amount of brain percantage we use. Im not one to act like I know it all so others please respectfully accept a humble approach to any subject.




posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 12:49 AM
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Originally posted by ZindoDoone
It realy doesn't matter that anyone here believes or doesn't believes. The folks at that game believed it and got upset and crashed the party bigtime!!! With eleven dead and probably a whole heck of alot more injured, witchcraft seemed to matter a great deal!!

Zindo


I believe that was my point. The fact that in this day and age, a superstition like that could still wreak so much havoc. Why do we not see this happen in more modern cultures? Did witchcraft just lose its effectiveness in some places.

Aside from all that, I think all the supporters of magic here are forgettig one key to this story. Noone was accused of using witchcraft to make something happen. Someone was accused of TRYING to use witchcraft to TRY to make something happen. So, apparently either it did not work, or they really had no proof anyone was trying to do it for real either.

If someone TRIES to break in my home, I guess I might either have evidence of attemptet break in or caught them in the act. How ecactly do you prove someone is TRYING to use witchcraft. Is that argument not null in the absence of the actual magical effects?



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 01:33 AM
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Originally posted by MorningStar8741

If someone TRIES to break in my home, I guess I might either have evidence of attemptet break in or caught them in the act. How ecactly do you prove someone is TRYING to use witchcraft.

EXACTLY my point all along....



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 03:02 AM
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reply to post by Reddupo
 


So, all along you have been agreeing with me that there is no such thing as magic because so far noone has ever attempted to prove its exsistence in any way? Wow, you have a funny way of expressing that but Kudos to you for coming around. You get a big shiny star!



posted on Sep, 20 2008 @ 04:38 AM
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"Magic" is certainly real, and even co-exists with science, but first you have to properly define it. That's the trouble. Aleister Crowley defined it as "the Science and Art of causing Change to occur in conformity with Will." By this definition, the use of science itself can be seen as "magic." Most people today only consider things "magical" when they don't fully understand them. Televisions would no doubt appear "magical" to someone from the 1800's unfamiliar with electricity and especially electronics.

If you ever read any Crowley, despite all the controversial noise he (intentionally) made for himself, he was a very learned man and was incredibly (and inter-relatingly) versed in Buddhist philosophy (including Zen Buddhism), Hinduism, Taoism, the "Holy Qabbala," Hebrew, and various "pagan" (European) mythologies and traditions, to list a few of his interests. He was also familiar with the conventional scientific models of his day, and mathematics.

There is a lot of wisdom locked up in various philosophical texts from different cultures across different times, that is at least equally vital to the ability for a modern man to perform "magic" as his technical sciences are. (A motto associated with Crowley is actually, "The Method of Science, the Aim of Religion"). A lack of this wisdom is exactly what has rendered this country to such a state despite our (increasingly outdated) scientific models.

Science (or more specifically, empiricism) is a great tool for what it is there for, but the human mind has even more potential than we have realized, and even the sciences themselves are beginning to catch up with the magnitude of what we are looking at in the fields of psychology and quantum physics as they begin to enter each other's territory (just ask and I could recommend you several satisfying books on the subject).


Speaking of growing correlations between quantum physics (relating to the very smallest and subtlest realms) and psychology (relating to the mind -- which happens to amplify signals from the same realm), there is actually more of a relation here to the traditional stereotypes of "magic" than you might think. The theoretical groundwork has already been laid by accomplished psychologists (ie C.G. Jung) for the science behind astrological correspondences and even the Tarot. The important psychology concepts here are the collective unconscious, archetypal symbols and synchronicities that Jung call "acausal," ie they do not follow the usual causal relationship of cause -> effect. This is exactly the same things quantum physicists are noticing on a small scale where particles seem to exchange information faster than the speed of light, etc. On a larger scale (astrology, Tarot) Jung developed his theory of synchronicity, and was even able to demonstrate evidence of astrological correspondences to a random sampling of hundreds of marriages, despite the diversity amongst them all. He attributed those correspondences to universal subconscious archetypes that naturally tend to manifest in different forms at the same time, in cycles (think wheel of the Zodiac), and that effect everything from galaxies to sub-atomic particles ("everything breathes together").

The words we use sometimes carry connotations that precede the meaning we intend to convey. Define "magic" and we could better define our arguments. Crowley's form of "magic" is still very much alive and well today, to those who best understand it.



posted on Sep, 20 2008 @ 05:34 AM
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Still just waiting for someone, anyone to step forward and prove this magic. If you believe in it, prove it exsists. If you canno prove it, then show the proof that convinced you. Anyone, anytime. The invitation is always open.



posted on Sep, 20 2008 @ 06:01 AM
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I believe magic can be very affective too. However I wonder if the posters here realize what goes on in Congo???

They believe in witchcraft to the EXCLUSION of everything else. If someone gets sick and dies, its witchcraft. If a man becomes impotent, its witchcraft. It is very very common for them to suspect children that sleep fitfully, or that happen to be NEAR someone that gets sick of witchcraft as well.

This is not just a simple belief system. Children are cast out in the streets or beaten to death by their families on suspicion of witchcraft. Neighbors are lynched when suspected of causing the death of another neighbor. People are murdered for their body parts which are used in various rituals.

This is NOT a bunch of eccentric earth loving wiccans casting spells when the moon is new. It is a very very brutal part of their culture.


Congo's capital, Kinshasa, has experienced a rise in the number of witchcraft accusations among 3-18 year olds over the past ten years. In a city of six million, an estimated 25,000 children live in the streets as a result of this phenomenon. Once accused of witchery, the child is either subjected to family violence or thrown out of his/her home to fend for him/herself in the streets of the city. It may be a run of bad luck, a neighbour's death or an unexplained illness (AIDS, cancer) that leads to the accusation against the child.
www.newsfromafrica.org...



The intensity of the persecution and vigilantism in South Africa has reached such levels that no fewer than ten villages have been established in the Northern Province, populated exclusively by accused "witches" whose lives are at risk in their home communities. One such settlement, Helena, counted among its residents 62-year-old Esther Rasesemola, who "was accused in 1990 of being a witch after lightning struck her village"
www.gendercide.org...



[edit on 20-9-2008 by Sonya610]



posted on Sep, 20 2008 @ 06:12 AM
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reply to post by Sonya610
 


Wow, it seems like the Congo should be running over with evidence for these supporters of witchcraft to show us all then. Or...perhaps it is an ignorant belief system that clearly is not doing anyone any good there.



posted on Sep, 20 2008 @ 03:19 PM
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Originally posted by MorningStar8741
Still just waiting for someone, anyone to step forward and prove this magic. If you believe in it, prove it exsists. If you canno prove it, then show the proof that convinced you. Anyone, anytime. The invitation is always open.

I'm waiting for anyone to disprove it.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.



posted on Sep, 20 2008 @ 03:33 PM
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Originally posted by Reddupo

Originally posted by MorningStar8741
Still just waiting for someone, anyone to step forward and prove this magic. If you believe in it, prove it exsists. If you canno prove it, then show the proof that convinced you. Anyone, anytime. The invitation is always open.

I'm waiting for anyone to disprove it.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.


You do realize what you just said dont you? Absence of proof of magic does not disprove magic. Very good. What does a complete absence of anyone able to recreate, predict, perform, illutrate actual magic?

You believe something with NO proof because there is no proof against it?
You cannot prove a negative.

I will wait until someone proves it before I believe in it. Until then there really is no reason to, according to your logic.

Never seen or heard or experienced any magic at all ever anywhere in anyway, so that proves it is true?

Seriously, repeating little sayings you see all over ATS are no good when they do not actually bolster your own arguement but now I see what I am dealing with and understand there is no point in having this discussion with anyone that can speak out of both sides of their face in the same post and somehow think it helps them.



posted on Sep, 20 2008 @ 05:23 PM
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Originally posted by MorningStar8741
Still just waiting for someone, anyone to step forward and prove this magic.


By doing what, pulling a rabbit out of an empty hat?

I'm still not sure anyone here knows what they're talking about.



posted on Sep, 20 2008 @ 05:25 PM
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Originally posted by bsbray11

Originally posted by MorningStar8741
Still just waiting for someone, anyone to step forward and prove this magic.


By doing what, pulling a rabbit out of an empty hat?

I'm still not sure anyone here knows what they're talking about.


I dunno how. They claim magic exsists, they will need to figure out how to prove it.



posted on Sep, 20 2008 @ 05:43 PM
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Originally posted by MorningStar8741
They claim magic exsists, they will need to figure out how to prove it.


I'm still waiting for someone to describe what "magic" is. Is it pulling a rabbit out of a hat?



posted on Sep, 20 2008 @ 05:52 PM
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reply to post by bsbray11
 


I find that rather telling that so many posts about how magic is so real and yet we still do not even know what any of them consider magic to be.

There is one explanation offered that it is just science that we have not yet learned and that is all fine and good. i am sure fire was magic at one point. Unfortunately, I would still like maybe an example of this science we have not yet learned.

Perhaps the supporters of magic all need to define it. I have a feeling that they will not be as supportive of each other if that were to happen.



posted on Sep, 20 2008 @ 06:41 PM
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Originally posted by MorningStar8741
I would still like maybe an example of this science we have not yet learned.


Oh man, who wouldn't! Per aspera ad astra.

Check out what Dr. William A. Tiller, a tenured material sciences Professor Emeritus at Stanford, has recently been pioneering:

tillerfoundation.com...

He was also featured on "What the Bleep Do We Know?"

I bought his book "Science and Human Transformation," and am reading it now. It blows my mind. On the back cover, he summarizes what he will show in the book: Matter = Energy = Consciousness.

We have already suspected that matter and energy are equivalent ever since Einstein's E=mc^2, and nuclear forces have been ripped apart to demonstrate tremendous amounts of energy release. Now Dr. Tiller empirically shows the correlation between various energies within us and surrounding our bodies, and our conscious intent. We will something, and physical changes occur in correspondence to that will, from simply moving your arms and legs, to healing yourself and others (and this is also empirically shown in his book, from the level of cellular stimulation by a weak EM pulse initiated by signals from the brain), to whatever else we may discover is possible. So our bodies are more receptive to us than we have realized.

[edit on 20-9-2008 by bsbray11]



posted on Sep, 20 2008 @ 06:53 PM
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People can believe in anything they want to. People pray at football games dont they? I think thats ignorant myself but its not my right to judge them.
This thread smells of hypocracy.



posted on Sep, 20 2008 @ 06:58 PM
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reply to post by Memysabu
 


I am not condemning anyone for their beliefs or personal values. If you want to pray at a football game, go for it. If you want to run around screaming that you know for a fact that God exsists, well...someone in that public place is going to challenge you. That is what it is all about right?

What seems more in line with "deny ignorance."

Claim magic is real with no proof of any kind?

Question the nut that claims there is real magic with no proof of any kind?



posted on Sep, 20 2008 @ 07:12 PM
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Originally posted by MorningStar8741
reply to post by Memysabu
 


I am not condemning anyone for their beliefs or personal values. If you want to pray at a football game, go for it. If you want to run around screaming that you know for a fact that God exsists, well...someone in that public place is going to challenge you. That is what it is all about right?


Claim magic is real with no proof of any kind?

Question the nut that claims there is real magic with no proof of any kind?

Wow...


What seems more in line with "deny ignorance."

1. Claim magic is real without proof of any kind
2. Claim magic is not real without proof of any kind
3. Accept that we do not know for now



posted on Sep, 20 2008 @ 07:15 PM
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Originally posted by MorningStar8741
The fact that in this day and age, a superstition like that could still wreak so much havoc. Why do we not see this happen in more modern cultures? Did witchcraft just lose its effectiveness in some places.


People are still using it in civilized, modern cultures, however our cultures are a lot more open-minded about different belief systems. We don't usually think its our neighbors fault if someone gets sick.

Look at the thread on sigil magic, it has a tremendous amount of responses. Obviously a lot of people are into it.

[edit on 20-9-2008 by Sonya610]



posted on Sep, 20 2008 @ 07:17 PM
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reply to post by Sonya610
 


Still using what? Superstition or real magic?



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