NASA Grants Colorado University $485,000,000 to study...Mars Weather!

Well, this is just a shade over $1.50 for every person in the US... Compare that to... oh... say the 6 BILLION or so that is spent in Iraq each month? I don't think it's NASA you should be angry about... In the grand scheme of things, 485 million would do exactly SQUAT for our current situation, because it's not that much money when you're talking about 10's of billions, (or trillions).

Originally posted by Manasseh
reply to post by jmilla

 

BTW without engineers those bridges would FAIL or never be built in the first place. do you think the Romans didnt have architectural engineers?

Could you please get off your high horse. Do you think we needed engineers to lay a log across a river. Someone, who was quick thinking, tied two together and realized it made a stronger bridge. Not some engineer, but someone who needed to get to the other side without getting wet. I can think of some people who have been killed in recent history, thanks to engineers who thought they knew it all. Titanic comes to mind. "Unsinkable" they said. Pffft.

I know some things that wouldn't exist today without engineering and the science to back it up: Computers, the Internet, radio, television, refrigerators, satellites, and cars.

NASA spending that amount of money in such a project is indeed ridiculous, but this may come useful sooner or later; maybe they are looking for the possibility of colonizing other planets since the earth cannot sustain us for much longer. Besides, I thought that being the leading edge in science and technology was what made the United States the most powerful nation.

reply to post by Halicarnassus


Did anyone actually read the article. It is for an orbiting space mission. ANd many other are involved in it. The team chosen to work on the project includes CU-Boulder, Lockheed Martin's Littleton operation, the University of California at Berkeley and two NASA divisions: The Goddard Space Flight Center and Jet Propulsion Laboratory. It is also not being launched until 2013. So it is not like they are getting a 485 million dollar check. It will be money spent over 5 years. Why are they studying mars weather:L

We're trying to learn the history of the atmosphere and the history of the water," Jakosky said. And that is done by studying how the sun and Martian atmosphere interact now.

The probe will carry instruments to measure characteristics of Mars' atmospheric gases, upper atmosphere, solar wind, and ionosphere - a layer of charged particles very high in the Martian atmosphere.

"We know there is liquid early in Mars history and we know there isn't any today," said Jakosky. "One of the major questions about Mars has been trying to understand why that change in the environment, why that change in the climate."

"We're going to be making measurements to understand how the solar wind has stripped off gas through time, how the solar ultraviolet light has caused the loss of gas through time and we're going to be able to determine how much gas has been lost," he said.
"Mars is the most Earth-like planet that we have in the solar system. We see clouds in the atmosphere. It does have an atmosphere which lots of the plants near us do not have," said Steve Lee, chairman of the space sciences department at the Denver Museum of Nature and Science. "It sort of looks like the Earth now; we know it was a whole lot like the Earth in the past. There was a lot more atmosphere, there was liquid water at some point in the past on the surface. We don't know how long ago that was, we don't know how long that lasted, but under the conditions we find today, we can't even have liquid water."

Now you may ask why did CU get the contract. Well CU is the only university in the world to have designed, built and launched instruments to every planet in the solar system
Read the whole article. From all the responses it doesnt look like anyone even looked at it. This program is also going to help nasa build smaller and cheaper crafts in the future.

All i have to say is, while this research might help us better understand weather on Mars and enable us to have a safer trip there someday, why isnt more research being done as to how we can learn to better deal with the ever increasing nasty weather on our planet and the long term effects of the dissapearing arctic sea ice.

More importantly, why cant this money be spent to jumpstart alternative energy infrastructures? Medical research? Or perhaps even to try to repair the economy? It never ceases to amaze me on how billions get spent each year on useless research that doesnt benefit our species as a whole and not to fixing problems in society instead. Heck more money gets spent on Nascar and pro wrestling and hockey each year alone than what is spent in the effort to better humanity.

Originally posted by Manasseh
reply to post by Jay-in-AR

 

Yeah, another example of college education destroying Gods people.



Another example of how elitists colleges have moved mankind away from
God.



[edit on 15-9-2008 by Manasseh]

I was guessing you were another religious nutjob, and now you've confirmed it....plus, you sound really, really bitter...why is that? Do you like using your computer, that Science created, do you enjoy driving your car, talking on the phone, watching television, listening to music on your stereo or mobile device, enjoy reading books, newspapers, even your beloved bible?
That's right, that horrible nemesis of god's people (wtf does god's people mean anyway?) had a big hand in each and every one of those.
Yeah, I'd much rather put my faith in the flying spaghetti monster of whatever imaginary friend you worship than something that actually offers something of value to the people of this world.
Understanding Mars' climate may give us a better understanding of the mechanisms of our own climate, plus the pursuit of knowledge is commendable because we can't all be toilet cleaners

reply to post by ChocoTaco369


Exactly, this is from their alotted yearly fund. They get $15 Bil per year, which is a mear drop in our wasteful government. Compare that to the DOD which is about $580B per, and you realize it isn't much.

Federalbudget.com

To discredit this project in this manner is rather ignorant, especially on a site like ATS. 1/30th of the money that NASA was alloted in the year will go to this project, dubbed MAVEN (Mars Atmosphere and Volatile Evolution mission):

"We know there is liquid early in Mars history and we know there isn't any today," said Jakosky. "One of the major questions about Mars has been trying to understand why that change in the environment, why that change in the climate."

"Mars is the most Earth-like planet that we have in the solar system. We see clouds in the atmosphere. It does have an atmosphere which lots of the plants near us do not have," said Steve Lee, chairman of the space sciences department at the Denver Museum of Nature and Science. "It sort of looks like the Earth now; we know it was a whole lot like the Earth in the past. There was a lot more atmosphere, there was liquid water at some point in the past on the surface. We don't know how long ago that was, we don't know how long that lasted, but under the conditions we find today, we can't even have liquid water."

OP's News Story

It is important to study Mars because in many ways it is/was very similar to Earth. We now know for a FACT that there is ice water on the poles and it appears that flowing water once was prevelant on an Earth-like planet. This changed. We want to know why this happened, how long before this change happened, and if life had a chance to flourish.

If say we find that it had a current day Earth-like atmosphere for 1-2 billion years, instead of the 500 million years or so we are inferring, then life could have survived and thrived on Mars and evolved to unknown potentials. And it certainly would put your geocentric beliefs into question if in fact Mars was the first planet to house life, or even if Earth-life originated from Mars!

It is also important because the Earth may undergo similar changes in its future one day. This added perspective will give us more things to look for and warning signs, and it will give us added perspective when looking at other atmospheres, perhaps in other solar systems one day.

And to totally discredit NASA is disproving your own point, without NASA we wouldn't have been able to use satellites to accurately predict the hurricane's path in time to evacuate the million some odd people away to safety.

GPS has made search and rescue a lot easier, and computing advances over the decades from NASA are rather astonishing and surely has aided in helping people in the world. Thanks to NASA, solar panels may be providing power to many who would have none. NASA has and will have helped billions of people worldwide when all is said and done.

Space science will lead to cures, energy crisis solving breakthroughs, and limitless tangible results. And you can't discount the inspirational side all of this brings out in children and young minds, along with all of the other intangibles space science has to offer.

At $15 Bil a year, I'll gladly give NASA my $60 a year!

As for whether this $500 Mil could have been better spent, I would agree, I want the manned Moon missions NOW!! I want a Helium 3 car and a He3-powered house! Actually no I want a Moon Hotel, screw the mission!!

Seriously though, deny ignorance and respect the good things NASA has and will bring to the world. As for black budget space ops and R&D, and wasteful spending within our government that WON'T have positive impacts...:

Reversing course, NASA's administrator promised Congress on Wednesday he will publicly disclose results of an unprecedented federal aviation survey which found that aircraft near collisions, runway interference and other safety problems occur far more often than previously recognized.

NASA had said previously it was withholding the information because it feared it would upset air travelers and hurt airline profits. Citing an insider familiar with the research, The Associated Press reported last week on the survey of some 24,000 pilots.

In testimony prepared for a congressional hearing Wednesday, Griffin said he has directed release "as soon as possible" of all the research data that does not contain what he described as confidential commercial information.

www.katu.com...

Anybody ever question WHY NASA is in charge of the FAA results. Why isn't the FAA in charge of FAA results??

Because NASA is in charge of the Global Weather Manipulation projects. They don't want the public realizing just how many flights don't coincide with typical commercial aviation flight patterns.

NASA, is spraying the chemtrails, or at least in charge of the sinister program.

That is why the $485 million is going to the Atmospheric Sciences department at CU.

Another case of the Freemason controlled fraternities working with each other to rid the planet of "useless eaters"

I heard it from a homeless man.

reply to post by ProfEmeritus


Im glad you brought up the Condon Report from The University of Colorado.[It officially concluded that there was a broad scientific consensus that the study of UFOs was unlikely to yield major scientific discoveries, but that "persons with good ideas for specific studies in this field should be supported" by Federal government agencies ] People with good ideas? Intersting. [The Report was reviewed by a panel of the National Academy of Sciences, which endorsed its scope, conclusions and recommendations.] So here you have two reports that say looking for ET should still be studied. I wonder if they did.

Obviously, not many folks took the time to really read the article that this information is in.

The University of Colorado will LEAD a $485 million effort to investigate the past climate of Mars.

It says they will lead a $485 million effort. It does not say that they are receiving a grant for said amount of money. We see further evidence of this while reading the article when we see the other parties that are going to be involved.

The team chosen to work on the project includes CU-Boulder, Lockheed Martin's Littleton operation, the University of California at Berkeley and two NASA divisions: The Goddard Space Flight Center and Jet Propulsion Laboratory.

That allotted amount of money will go to funding that will be needed by all those companies as they will be employed by NASA for this project. And, even if I am wrong and NASA handed the university $485 million, then as a taxpayer myself, I am satisfied with where my money is going. As a student at a University myself, going for Electrical Engineering (you know, the guy that will design the wiring schematics for an electrician to follow) this really excites me. I love science. I am thankful to be alive in a time when things like this are possible.

Education is very important. Those that have been talking badly about colleges should really rethink things.

reply to post by Aaron_Justin


Well you got me. I admit I didn't read this article.

What does "lead a 485 million dollar effort" actually mean?

Also, I didn't think people in this thread were talking bad about this university, or colleges in general. I think there is some unrest over the idea of spending so much cash for this venture when there are some many pressing needs right here on Gaia.



[edit on 16-9-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]

reply to post by Aaron_Justin

Education is very important.

Your view of education and mine are two very different views.

I say one only truly learns from experience. On the job training.

You say, an education comes from books.

I design electrical jobs everyday, and I can install them without getting killed.

One day in the field, and all your degrees would not keep you safe, or let you understand how to install the equipment.

How many engineers would it take to get power back on after a catastrophic event? I would put my warmth and comfort on an experienced field electrician any day.

While the engineer would be drawing it up on paper, the electrician would be getting it done.

The new solar revolution will prove that.

[edit on 16-9-2008 by Manasseh]

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by Aaron_Justin

 

Well you got me. I admit I didn't read this article.

What does "lead a 485 million dollar effort" actually mean?

Also, I didn't think people in this thread were talking bad about this university, or colleges in general. I think there is some unrest over the idea of spending so much cash for this venture when there are some many pressing needs right here on Gaia.



[edit on 16-9-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]

So much cash? This is SQUAT! 500 million? Are you kidding me? That isn't that much money when it comes down to it. (ESPECIALLY over 5 years) Hell, the company I work for makes over 10x's that a year, NET.

This is, however, my last post in this thread because I can't bear to read another ignorant word of the OP's.

reply to post by Manasseh


Your comparisons are off. You are making it sound like an engineer is an idiot because he can design an aircraft, but not pilot it as well as an experienced pilot. Of course that is correct. The point I am trying to make is that both fields are important. There are two types of engineers as well. There are design engineers, and there are operations engineers. Design as well as application.

The electrician in the field is just as important as the engineer in the office. They are both needed in today's society. Even an experience electrician has to have learned what he knows from somewhere. If I am not mistaken I beleive trade skill offers courses to become certified.

My point is that from what I read in your posts you harbor some ill will towards people that choose to go to college and get a degree. Engineers have made lots of things possible that people without degrees probably could not accomplish. People without degrees, but real time experience in a particular field have made many things possible that engineers probably could not accomplish. It works both ways.

I still stand by what I said about education being important though. How do you handle calculations in electricity without knowing a bit of trig?

For 25 years, Ross Hoffman has had a vision: to use tiny changes in the environment to alter the paths of hurricanes, slow down snow storms and turn dark days bright.

For most of those years, Hoffman kept his ideas largely to himself. His adviser at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology told him weather control was too outlandish for his Ph.D. thesis.
...
But, in 2001, all that changed. Hoffman stumbled upon a tiny, obscure cranny of the American space program -- the NASA Institute for Advanced Concepts, or NIAC. In this $4 million-a-year agency, Hoffman found a place where the wildest of ideas were not only tolerated, they were welcome.
...

www.infowars.com...

Luckily Simpson had been in touch with Dave Atlas, who at the time was putting together a new Laboratory for Atmospheres at NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center. “He’d been going at it for about a year or so, and I asked him if he had any jobs left. He said, ’The Severe Storms Branch needs leadership, please come tomorrow morning.

earthobservatory.nasa.gov...

Joseph Romm has an interesting blog called Climate Progress. He says that by necessity a huge amount of funding will go into climate science over the next several decades; it will be as big as the Internet in economic impact alone. He's now stating some of the most alarming facts and possibilities related to global warming over the next century. Scary stuff. Romm predicts that the US space program will be essentially abandoned by 2025 because we will recognize that every available dollar must be put into combatting the effects of global climate change.
...
Ironically, NASA programs are key to understanding more about Earth's climate. I could very easily rattle off 100 technologies developed in part or in full by NASA, that will and are mitigating the effects of climate change.

crnano.typepad.com...

That last article is from a webpage called "Responsible Nanontechnology"

Responsible for millions of death, they will be.

Ahh yes..The old "Science and education is evil" routine.

Well..Hey, you like the ability to spread this ignorance? Thank a scientist, you like the ability to watch your favorite shows, turn on the damned lights, brush your teeth, Get health care, Drive a car, Use your cell phone, purchase groceries, have public sanitation, clean water? Thank a scientist.

You sit here and blame all of science, and yet don't realize just how dependant you are upon it. This thread has got to be the height of ignorance.

[edit on 16-9-2008 by projectvxn]

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by Aaron_Justin

 

Well you got me. I admit I didn't read this article.

What does "lead a 485 million dollar effort" actually mean?

Also, I didn't think people in this thread were talking bad about this university, or colleges in general. I think there is some unrest over the idea of spending so much cash for this venture when there are some many pressing needs right here on Gaia.



[edit on 16-9-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]

...If you read the posts of Manasseh you will see that he /she/it does talk bad about colleges and education.
Spending cash on this venture may well help us with our pressing needs here on ..gah..gai...gai-aaah...gaia...um...Earth...I'm interested to know what you would class as the pressing needs anyway?
People would be better off, in my opinion, focusing their attention on how much the War of Terror and the exporting of pox americana is costing.

[edit on 16/9/08 by ChChKiwi]

reply to post by projectvxn

Well..Hey, you like the ability to spread this ignorance? Thank a scientist, you like the ability to watch your favorite shows, turn on the damned lights, brush your teeth, Get health care, Drive a car, Use your cell phone, purchase groceries, have public sanitation, clean water? Thank a scientist.

All very difficult to do without the electrician fixing your plug, the plumber making sure your toilet flushes.

Yet you "educated" people have the gall to look down your collective noses at the very people who make your lives comfortable, claiming your education sets you above and beyond.

All the "education" in the world, doesn't make you a good person, or a decent parent.

What I find is, the more "educated" one becomes, the less they feel they need God.

Higher class, subprime loans, degrees, blah blah. It's all about seperating people from their true purpose.

And if you don't know what your true purpose is, I suggest you go pick up a homeless person and take them into your home some time.

I know, you say ewww! I couldn't do that and dirty up my fine linens and beautiful china.

Go back to class. That is where you belong. Patting each other on the back about how far above you are.

Yet you throw yourselves, and our country, further and further into debt, with your student loans, and your fancy cars, and your bigger houses, just so you can show how successful you have become.

Yuck!

Nice on topic post there.

Haere atu

He tutae nui tenei

Kaua e hoata to mahi ra

The last translates as " Don't give up your day job".

I guess you would rather have your country (that's right, it's not mine) run by religious fundamentalist electricians who only give funding to research that will try to prove the efficacy of prayer and the absolute proof of creationism and the judaeo-christain god?

I, for one, am glad that there are scientists who can rise above all the cat-fighting and attempt to improve the lot of the people by inventing useful things rather than relying on the unreliability and hocus-pocus of prayer.

He pokotiwha hoki ia.

Ko etahi o aku tino hoa he scientists.

Originally posted by ChChKiwi

I see you edited your post to make it less of a personal attack. Thank you.

People would be better off, in my opinion, focusing their attention on how much the War of Terror

Um yeah I think so too. I wouldn't exclude those wastefull expenses from what I am talking about. Why did you make the assumption I was?

...If you read the posts of Manasseh you will see that he /she/it does talk bad about colleges and education.

Correct. I did not read all of this members posts.

Spending cash on this venture may well help us with our pressing needs here on ..gah..gai...gai-aaah...gaia...um...Earth...

Not sure why me using the name Gaia (which was the name for planet Earth long before 'Earth' was, and is also synonymous with Gaia-Theory, which I beleive in) is an issue with you, and something to be made fun of. But wh...whh....what...ever.

I'm interested to know what you would class as the pressing needs anyway?

First off, I didn't say this project was of no benifit to us. Clearly you have not read MY earlier messages.

It's my opinion there are more tangible financial needs right now, right here on 'Earth'. For instance, I gave an example earlier (read it?), disease research and development. How about funding for public education. 500 million might not be a big number on a macroscale, but it IS a bigger number for private organizations that are trying to raise a quater of that for cancer research, or a school trying to raise 20 grand to update the computer lab. All I was expressing was concern man. Taxpayer concern.

[edit on 16-9-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]

The only person that has been putting a level on anything is you Mannasseh. I never said with my degree I will be better than anyone. Did someone with a degree get a job that you wanted or something? Is that where your hate comes from?