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The world would be better without money

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posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 01:07 PM
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After a good chat with a fellow member of ATS on MSN we started to talk about what the world was like a long time ago when theyre was no money and i think its pretty clear things was better people actually had to work and be good at something then they could trade it to get something else in return that they needed.

i just really think this world would be better off without money because today
1. wars are fought over money
2. Couples break up over money
3. people are killed because of money

what do you think are we now too dependent on money so much that we NEED it to survive or can we as a society move on to better ways of live.

[edit on 4/20/2008 by billyjoinedat2k8]

[edit on 4/20/2008 by billyjoinedat2k8]

[edit on 4/20/2008 by billyjoinedat2k8]




posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 01:12 PM
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reply to post by billyjoinedat2k8
 


I have often contemplated this and i believe it would be good for mankind.

If you need food, you do a job for the guy with the food etc etc

But then how are the fatcats gonna get any fatter?
How will the wars be payed for, how will the banks be able to continually trap people in debt?



[edit on 15/9/08 by blupblup]



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 02:55 PM
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Well if the world cost nothing to be created and carry on giving life for nothing in return


Why do we humans in this world spends our lives running after money?



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 03:05 PM
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It is much more efficient to trade goods with money.

When you use money, you only have to value a good based on how much money it is worth. If you use a barter system, you have to understand every goods relation to every other good. IE- How many A is B, how many A is C, and how many B is C, etc.

There is a rather simple economics formula I can dig up to illustrate this for the more mathematically inclined. Money definitely allows markets to function more efficiently though.

Besides, when did you postulate that there was no currency? (I bet there was...)


[edit on 15-9-2008 by WuTang]



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 03:07 PM
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And who will make cars, industry, medicine....? Anything that is not directly producing food. How can you sustain high-level technological society without universal abstract value for easier material exchange (aka money)? NASA guys will receive more burgers then clerks and exchange excess burgers for refrigerators?
You do understand that your idea will bring society thousands years back and billions of people less?



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 03:10 PM
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No its just none of you can imagine a world without money.

So its stupid to think that life would not be as good.


Western minds eh.............



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 03:10 PM
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No use for money in the next world.

You'll either be in Hell with no use or in Paradise with no needed use.



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 03:15 PM
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Money is one of the main causes of conflics in this world i just think we should either look for an alternative or just scrap money altogether currency brings the owrst out in people aswell it makes them incredibly greedy and when they have it they always want that little bit more.

isnt it better if people can make things and trade it for something they want so they have to be able to work or to have a skill but im just trying to crearte some ideas here sorry if ive annoyed some of you.



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 03:38 PM
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Money is not the problem. You need money to effectively trade an extremely varied basket of goods that is offered in our economy.

The thing that probably needs to be eliminated is profit. Profit or the want of profit is what leads folks to do the wrong thing time after time. Pay everyone based on the worth they give society, not based on what they are able to take out of society. Reward innovation and the such, but on a more limited basis then we now see. Provide a social framework where your retirement, health care and other essentials are fully met, making accumulating money a moot point.

There are many things we can do but eliminating money is not the answer.



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 03:45 PM
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Originally posted by billyjoinedat2k8
Money is one of the main causes of conflics in this world i just think we should either look for an alternative or just scrap money altogether currency brings the owrst out in people aswell it makes them incredibly greedy and when they have it they always want that little bit more.

isnt it better if people can make things and trade it for something they want so they have to be able to work or to have a skill but im just trying to crearte some ideas here sorry if ive annoyed some of you.


2 Things:

1-It is not that you have annoyed anyone, it is a common question/suggestion. The problem is economists have proved beyond a doubt through both math and philosophy that society runs much more efficiently with currency.

2-If people didn't fight wars over money, they would fight wars over the resources and goods that said money represents (which they pretty much do now anyways). Those goods would just be traded in a less efficient manner after the war.

I think the best arguement against currency is from Hobbes (sorry If i've got the guy wrong, I hated Political Science theory - one of the 1600-1800 British Ones
). He points out that a big problem with currency is that it is non perishable. He postulates that if we used something like acorns (I think was his example - something perishable) that no man would ever be able to horde more than he needs in the short-medium term. But then again he also felt we should be allowed to have slaves to harvest those suckers for us...

I think that would be about the only radical change you could make to currency in order to curb economic activity in those who have the most wealth. Unfortunately I would argue that this policy would however probably be a lot less efficient in the long term (or any term for that matter).



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 03:48 PM
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Money is simply a symbol for the transfer of energy. Money is not the problem.

We live under a system of economic slavery. Where there is a constant transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich via corrupt economic systems. Where new money is created out of thin air, which devalues the current money in the system, driving up prices and then we are expected to pay that money back, PLUS interest. The interest money however is never created, and from there is becomes a fight to screw over other people in order to collect your share of the interest payments.

Money isn't the problem. Economic slavery is.



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 10:34 PM
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To all of you here, look at the world today. If money was out of the picture even for a little bit, the elites would fall. Like a time machine refrence. If the money of the US were to fall today, what would you do? Steal kill or loot to feed your familiess? Or have you thought about the possibility of being self-sustaining? Growing food and medicine, building useful things to trade, or even learning a trade you can market to another family? Money was put into place to make it easer for us to buy and sell goods and services. So how much are you worth, an oz. of gold an hour: or a gallon of gass an hour? No matter how you look at it, money is no longer as beneficial as it was. it was put into place to make life easier for us. It isnt working!!! If we were to go to bartering for just a little while. we could reset our economy. We could make something just as useful as money was supposed to be in the beginning. Everything needs to be rebuilt every now and again, and who will do it? Those who are benefiting now and want to benefit later... Or those of us that really make this world work? I will let you choose your future.



posted on Sep, 16 2008 @ 03:23 AM
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reply to post by acewilliams
 


Actually without money as a concept middle/poor classes will crash. Not farmers who will still have food (though life span will fall to that of middle ages) and not those very rich who will hire others to run and exchange stuff. But middle class will crumble. Any complex product - from electronics,skyscrapers,space ships,agricultural machinery to "simple" car engine will not be produced. All the details and different materials needed for them are not produced in single place. To exchange them all for barter is going to be a real pain. What people who produce them will do? What service industry will do?
But rich people will be able to cope with it - by hiring more serfs. For food. From those ruined middle classes
Hooray to slavery. Much less problematic then money. And moral too....
Just try to imagine how many people will die of hunger in big cities because they will no longer be able to obtain food for their services. All for the good cause, right? To fight those rich guys who will just channel their wealth into gold/silver/tons of food.
And even worst - lawyers will still survive.



posted on Sep, 16 2008 @ 08:20 AM
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Money is a problem if it leads to problems..


Until the day comes, (which it will) where money is no use, then we can clearly judge.

Right now, it's causing more problems than ever. Our lives our restricted, in every way with money despite the opportunities it gives us. We cannot imagine a life without money. So we can never see the opportunity of a free world.

Freedom = opportunities.

Think about it.



posted on Sep, 16 2008 @ 08:30 AM
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Money is not the problem. Money does not start wars. People are the problem. People start wars. Let's ban people, or rather, anyone that feels they would like to go into politics...

But if you really want to fix the world it is very simple:

Remove money
Remove government
Remove religion

Humans once lived this way you know, without those 3 things and got along just fine...we have been conditioned to believe we need these things. It is just an illusion.



posted on Sep, 16 2008 @ 11:03 AM
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I'll agree to that all religion should be removed from the face of the earth..
And i'm all in to the remove money thing...
but guys... now that the money is here, I think we are at the point of no return. Seriusly I would really like to know how to make this gigantic error back i this frigging word?!



posted on Sep, 16 2008 @ 12:09 PM
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It's not the MONEY that is the problem, it is the LOVE OF money that is the problem.

Picture this: You have a farmer, he wants to sell his pig to the local butcher. He takes the hog there. He trades the hog for other food items, maybe some salt and other spices, drinks, etc. All good so far, right?

What do you trade the butcher when you go into his store for a pound of bacon, and some pork chops? Let's say some chicken. Ok, fine and dandy. Keep going, but at some point, for someone, he is going to say "Nope. I already have plenty of that" to everything the guy has to trade.

What are you going to trade the gas station guy for your gasoline? Money allows you to "store up" things that you couldn't before. Things that perish quite easily or quickly. How are you going to "store up" a hundred gallons of milk from your cows to trade? You can't. But with money, you can.

And why do people love money? Because to lower, middle, and lower-upper class people, it represents freedom from worry over bills, food, and shelter. To upper-upper class people (the very wealthy and elite) it represents POWER. Power over other people. After all, doesn't "everyone have their price"?


Money, in and of itself, is very, very useful and helpful. However, like all things, the ABUSE of money is another matter entirely. And we have PLENTY of that abuse going on today.

Your idea has merit; however, it has one glaring, fatal flaw. The system put into place to eliminate money must be PERFECT, and it must be RUN perfectly. Do you know anyone today who could do that?

Even the anti-christ has to have money to run his world (hence the "no man may buy nor sell without his mark in the right hand or forehead). There is every indication that money will not be used once Jesus returns to earth. After all, of what use are gold, silver, precious metals, and jewels, when the very foundations of buildings are going to have those things. In other words, imagine someone coming into our society from a world where concrete or asphalt was considered "money".



posted on Sep, 16 2008 @ 12:21 PM
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Originally posted by mind is the universe
No its just none of you can imagine a world without money.

So its stupid to think that life would not be as good.


Western minds eh.............


Western? Pretty much every culture in every part of the world had an abstract form of exchange. All of Asia, the native Americans, Africa, Central and south America, Australia most inhabited islands, etc.

Where you say "western" you should be saying "Human"


Also: there's no reason elites wouldn't prosper under a moneyless system. Frankly, it'd just make it all the more obvious. They'd own the land, make people pay a dividend of their production to use it, and use that in trade to buy other people's land, or live a life of excess.

Without money, you'd wind up with an agrarian serfdom, and it would be AWFUL.



Originally posted by WatchNLearn
Money is not the problem. Money does not start wars. People are the problem. People start wars. Let's ban people, or rather, anyone that feels they would like to go into politics...

But if you really want to fix the world it is very simple:

Remove money
Remove government
Remove religion

Humans once lived this way you know, without those 3 things and got along just fine...we have been conditioned to believe we need these things. It is just an illusion.


Well, people have lived without money before, and without *formal* government, and with various less developed spiritualistic belief instead of religion, but mankind has never got along just fine. The only change is the scale and organization.

Government and religion just give people another excuse to kill people, and give organization to do it on a bigger scale than they would normally be able to organize. Some people fight wars just for the money, but the age of mercenaries is long over; it's not really a major problem these days. Governments sometimes fight over things with monetary value, but it'd still have value in a barter system. Debts still hold when you owe stuff instead of money, too.

[edit on 16-9-2008 by mdiinican]



posted on Sep, 16 2008 @ 12:30 PM
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It's pretty naive to think getting rod of money would accomplish anything. First, you'd have to get rid of all the skills and products and services money represents which varies from moment to moment and individual to individual.

Just work for the guy with the food if you want food? Oksy but what if you're a useless clod with no skills that are worthwhile for the guy with the food? You'll have to find a way to get something the guy with the food is willing to trade food for with your available skills. So while you're off trying to earn whatever it is the guy with the food wants (and trying to do this before you starve) I can hand the food guy some money I earned by doing what I am good at with no need to trade until I get an acceptable exchange rate.

Saying the world will be better off without money is like saying if everyone only loved everyone we'd all be better off. C'mon.



posted on Sep, 16 2008 @ 12:34 PM
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reply to post by thisguyrighthere
 


No im not saying it would solve everything but when theyre was no money the world was a better place in my opinion a lot of aspecs of life was improved.

if you think the world is better with money great no problem i just think if we had an or nothing like it atall things would be better.



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