My brother is a member of mason society

reply to post by Occult_Science


Questioning MY logic would bring this thread off-topic. We don't want that. What IS on-topic is- What do you wish to accomplish by making this thread? Are you advertising for the classes? Okay. Where can I learn more about what they can teach me? A link? A phone number to the main office? A map to the front door? What do ya have?
I'm not mocking you Occult_Science, I'm attempting to make this thread worth the bandwidth used and help you get to the damn point.
What are you offering, asking or declaring with this thread? What's the purpose?
So far, you've claimed:
1)Your Dad and brother are into both Masonry and the occult.
2) You are in possession of ancient documents that your family has been entrusted with since before Christ.
3) Your brother is starting a school with like-minded individuals somewhere NOT in America. His name is Vlad.
4) You are not here to teach us. Or inform us. Or anything.

Again, what is the point of this thread?

Cuhail

wow some brother you've got - i wouldn't keep secrets from my brother... but then again i have no use for power over others, so i'd never be a mason...

I think I've got it!

Occult_Science is here to try to sell ATS members his "class" where he will teach you all of his mystical knowledge - for a fee, of course. Everything else he said was just a ploy to get us to ask him about his classes.

I would seriously question the the mental state of anyone who would PAY to learn "secret knowledge" from someone who mixes up new thought occult subjects with freemasonry (either on purpose to get more people to pay, or out of ignorance).

Edit: Mods removed advertisement, so the above probably seems out of context. Occult_science was apparently here to advertise his "classes."


[edit on 15-9-2008 by LowLevelMason]

Originally posted by adrenochrome
wow some brother you've got - i wouldn't keep secrets from my brother... but then again i have no use for power over others, so i'd never be a mason...

If you can't be bothered to actually look up what freemasonry is before saying things like this, why ascribe to a site whose motto is DENY ignorance? How anyone could think freemasonry gives "power over others" is amazing to me - its 100% against what masonry actually does.

[edit on 15-9-2008 by LowLevelMason]

Occult_Science...

Mod Note: You Have An Urgent U2U- Click Here.

I posted my email address but my post was deleted as promotion possibly, so I cannot place my contact details anyway.
I am not trying to sell anything to anyone. I want to know how many peple may be interested in this. It is clear that not many. Some become offended that I market something. That's why I'm saying: I DON'T market anythis to you, just was curious.

There are not many people who are interested in this area and what I was talking about is not about money, this is about like-minded people.
I was talking about school of magic and my brother, its founder.
As I said, I know no details about his masonic activities (by which i mean social and political activities of secret society in which he is a member) except for his regularly advising presidents of several countries.
As for the school of magic, I am forbidden to advertise it, but I want to devote my life to it.

Originally posted by Occult_Science
As I said, I know no details about his masonic activities (by which i mean social and political activities of secret society in which he is a member) except for his regularly advising presidents of several countries.

So why is that the topic of your thread? You know, the bit of the subject line that reads "My brother is a member of mason society"? You didn't lead off with "My brother teaches a school of occult magick, who wants to know more"... The ties you make with any of this thread to Masonry are tenuous as best, as many have noted. Your brother is a Mason, your brother teaches magick. These two don't necessarily have any bearing on each other. And there are plenty of people on ATS who are interested in magick, and there are plenty of Masons on ATS too. And even a handful of Masons on ATS who are interested in magick. But you still haven't given us any meat.

reply to post by LowLevelMason


lol... amazing!

why are you a mason then? why not then change the rule so you can invite others as members, and fill the rest of society in on your grand way of life?? why do freemasons have secrets, period? secrecy is power - knowing something that others do not not only makes one personally feel "better" than others (though that's usually avoided), but it also founds an unexplainable or "mystical" tone, and people fear what they don't understand.

so when people see this "society with secrets", they either want to get in on the action and see what it's all about, or research the real history of freemasonry, with its indirect ties to most wars known to mankind, and its use of symbols.

"The major function of secrecy in Washington is to keep the U.S. people and U.S. Congress from knowing what the nation's leaders are doing. Secrecy is power. Secrecy is license. Secrecy covers up mistakes. Secrecy covers up corruption."

John Stockwell
-former CIA agent

[edit on 15-9-2008 by adrenochrome]

reply to post by adrenochrome


Yes, I am a mason. There is no rule that says people cannot be invited, but its generally not done. Why not? Because freemasonry should be something you seek out, it does not come to you.

You presume we have some "fantastic way of life" that we aren't sharing so something evil must be going on. That is quite an assumption. Freemasonry is not for everyone, and it offers nothing that you can't get on your own or from different sources. Joining is a matter of personal preference. Freemasonry is of great value to me, but it is not to others. And thats OK - but then again, I don't go around trying to conjure the bogey man whenever someone joins a group I am not a member of.

Believing secrecy is innately linked to power is incredibly simpleton. It assumes (1) that freemasonry has secrecy and that (2) secrecy is somehow innately linked to power. On the first account, nothing in freemasonry is actually secret. You can find the ritual online, in the bookstore, in the library, etc. Lodge locations and meeting times are public. Members advertise their membership through jewelry or other things like bumper stickers. The fraternity is not for profit and thus its books are open to the public. Grand lodge officer photos are plastered over every grand lodge website.

On the second part, secrecy is only a problem if the substance of the secrets is bad. You hold secrets - if you'd like to claim otherwise, immediately post your social security number and credit card numbers along with your full name and address. What, you won't? AH HA! Your keeping secrets, and that must mean you are using it to gain power!

It is true people fear what they don't understand, but with freemasonry there is no reason to fear because everything is available for people to understand. Its not my fault people choose to not look at the all the endless amounts of information available to them about the fraternity, and instead prefer to make assumptions and baseless accusations.

Baseless accusations like the one you just made - please do tell how freemasonry is linked to every war - actually, just do one and I'd be impressed. Freemasons have been persecuted in war - or perhaps your ideal government is more like what Hitler had in mind? If so, I'm afraid we'll have to disagree.

reply to post by LowLevelMason


well it's getting late, so i'll explain more later for those too closed-minded to do the research on their own, but do the Crusades ring a bell???

and please, spare me the stereotype of some young, ignorant know-it-all - i'm just a truth-seeker researching his way through all the dirt and rubbish; i have nothing against normal, every-day freemasons - just secrecy.

...and Hitler waged war against freemasonry because he wouldn't bow to the will of the higher-up masons wanting to control him, so he then foolishly thought he could start killing freemasons to make a point. boy was he a stupid puppet who became drunk with power... otherwise, what reason does your lodge give you for Hitler attacking the freemasons?

On the second part, secrecy is only a problem if the substance of the secrets is bad. You hold secrets - if you'd like to claim otherwise, immediately post your social security number and credit card numbers along with your full name and address. What, you won't? AH HA! Your keeping secrets, and that must mean you are using it to gain power!

cool thanks for proving my point! i sure am using those items as a means for advancing personal power - without them and the secrets they hold, i would be powerless in this corporate system i'm forced to live in! ...no thanks to you material freemasons...

[edit on 15-9-2008 by adrenochrome]

Originally posted by adrenochrome
...and Hitler waged war against freemasonry because he wouldn't bow to the will of the higher-up masons wanting to control him, so he then foolishly thought he could start killing freemasons to make a point. boy was he a stupid puppet who became drunk with power...

I think you are attempting to rewrite history. Hitler's agression was somewhat more all encompassing and was not directed solely at Freemasonry. I would hazard to say that Masonry was somewhat further down the priority list of Hitler's designs and was not the prime focus of his war-making.

...otherwise, what reason does your lodge give you for Hitler attacking the freemasons?

My lodge does not give me any prepared explaination for anything historical. Proper research is the key to this method of understanding.

Ah, another "secret knowledge" thread...

Fantastic. Imagine if all of the people with secret knowledge got together and combined their secret knowledge and teased us all with one thread about all the knowledge that they possessed and that they were withholding from us... Wow.

Awesome.

Originally posted by adrenochrome
...and Hitler waged war against freemasonry because he wouldn't bow to the will of the higher-up masons wanting to control him, so he then foolishly thought he could start killing freemasons to make a point. boy was he a stupid puppet who became drunk with power... otherwise, what reason does your lodge give you for Hitler attacking the freemasons?

My lodge doesn't give any reason for Hitler to hate Freemasons. Mein Kampf does shed some light, though... Because Freemasonry is tolerant of many religions, Hitler mistakenly assumed it was under the control of the Jews.

To strengthen his (the Jew's) political position he tries to tear down theracial and civil barriers which for a time continue to restrain him at every step. To this end he fights with all the tenacity innate in him for religious tolerance-and in Freemasonry, which has succumbed to him completely, he has an excellent instrument with which to fight for his aims and put them across. The governing circles and the higher strata of the political and economic bourgeoisie are brought into his nets by the strings of Freemasonry,and never need to suspect what is happening

Only the deeper and broader strata of the people as such, or rather that class which is beginning to wake up and fight for its rights and freedom, cannot yet be sufficiently taken in by these methods. But this is more necessary than anything else; for the Jew feels that the possibility of his rising to a dominant role exists only if there is someone ahead of him to clear the way; and this someone he thinks he can recognize in the bourgeoisie, in their broadest strata in fact. The glovemakers and linenweavers, however, cannot be caught in the fine net of Freemasonry; no, for them coarser but no less drastic means must be employed. Thus Freemasonry is joined by a second weapon in the service of the Jews: the press. With all his perseverance and dexterity he seizes possession of it. With it he slowly begins to grip and ensnare, to guide and to push all public life, since he is in a position to create and direct that power which, under the name of 'public opinion,' IS better known today than a few decades ago.

...

The general pacifistic paralysis of the national instinct of self preservation begun by Freemasonry in the circles of the so-called intelligentsia is transmitted to the broad masses and above all to the bourgeoisie by the activity of the big papers which today are always Jewish. Added to these two weapons of disintegration comes a third and by far the most terrible, the organization of brute force. As a shock and storm troop, Marxism is intended to finish off what the preparatory softening up with the first two weapons has made ripe for collapse.

Mein Kampf, ch 11

Now, I think Hitler was totally wrong and off the mark, but his own words do a pretty good job of describing his motivation in persecuting the Masons.

it's doubtful that those are even his own words... Father Staempfle, a Jesuit, was responsible for most of Mein Kampf.

Mein Kampf was edited by Jesuit Father Staempfle

All he had to do then was to develop the NSDAP, to promote subservient, ambitious, megalomaniac, ready-to-all servants, like Goebbels, Goering, Heydrich, Himmler and Hess, and mutate Hitlerian pseudo-philosophy into Nazism out a slight of hand. Then to the suggestion of Gregor Strasser he decided to put all this glibish talk into a book that he pompuously titled "Mein Kampf" (My Fight) whose original version was a collection of rambling, almost incoherent expressions of political commonplaces : there were passages taken from Houston Chamberlain and Lagarde, men whom Dietrich Eckhart used to quote in his writing and conversations. It was so poor and ridiculous that it had to be completely edited by a religious named Father Staempfle, a priest of brilliant intellectual attainment who twice rewrote it for Hitler, making it readable and coherent. Father Staempfle was murdered on the "Night of the Long Knives".

schikelgruber.net...

"Mein Kampf" was ghost-written by a Jesuit priest named Father Staempfle. Hitler the dunce was the tool of much more cunning men... Hitler had only one talent: he was a good public speaker and knew how to harangue the masses. As the son of a Civil Servant, Hitler could have obtained a good job in Vienna had he been inclined to work.

www.reformation.org...



...and my apologies - this thread is now horribly off-topic...

[edit on 16-9-2008 by adrenochrome]

JoshNorton: "My brother teaches a school of occult magick, who wants to know more". -??? My brother does not want to know more, he has secret knowledge to offer people and he is a member of masonic society closely connected with Tibet. Believe me, he does not want to be admitted to any secret society, in any place where he appears secret society appears on its own.

I dont't want any admission to freemasonry and I don't want to know anything about it, as I find it not interesting topic. What i call masonry activity of my brother is political and social activities of his secret society which makes decisions on the gov. level and is connected with intelligence services. You can argue that it's not masonery, so what is left then? Fundraising for poor people from third countries. Yeah, it's really secret......Tell me what else is left. Religion? Brotherhood?

I said what my brother can offer people - this is occultism and magic.
What is freemasonry giving - "secrecy" and secret hand-shakes? OK, some charity work as well. Does not impress much at all. What other secrets? Military secrets? This means connections with government which you, "real masons" deny so much. What else? Charitable secrets? Haha.
There is no much attractiveness in society where it pretends to be very secret and that's it. Freemasonry per se does not make any sense. Just another sect, that's it. My brother is a member of society which really makes difference.

Re Hitler - he actually was an occultist.

I'll just touch on the things other people didn't cover...

Originally posted by adrenochrome
well it's getting late, so i'll explain more later for those too closed-minded to do the research on their own, but do the Crusades ring a bell???

I find it interesting that you call anyone "close-minded" when you accuse a organization of doing things before IT EVEN EXISTED:

Have you even done enough research to know that freemasonry did not begin in its current form until the 1700s, and depending on what scholar you want to listen to you can find lodges that resemble something like freemasonry going back to the 1500s. The final crusade ended in 1272. How would you like to blame the Freemasons for that?

I know what your attempting here, which is "knight templars = freemasons." That is simply wrong. Masons themselves wish it were true, but all the evidence available shows it is not.

Originally posted by adrenochrome
and please, spare me the stereotype of some young, ignorant know-it-all - i'm just a truth-seeker researching his way through all the dirt and rubbish; i have nothing against normal, every-day freemasons - just secrecy.

Your playing into the stereotype. There is nothing BUT normal, every-day freemasons. There is no other type. If you have such a problem with secrecy, then why are you not posting your credit card number, social security number, name, and address? Oh thats right..because your keeping secrets. But I thought secrecy was evil?

cool thanks for proving my point! i sure am using those items as a means for advancing personal power - without them and the secrets they hold, i would be powerless in this corporate system i'm forced to live in! ...no thanks to you material freemasons...

I wonder if you know that you just unwittingly proved MY point. My point was that secrecy alone is not evil, there is nothing wrong with keeping secrets - which is what you just stated. Now that you agree with me, please explain how masonic secrets "advance personal power"? I know they don't, so I'd love to hear your explanation.

Your dislike for corporations has nothing to do with this - you need to separate your anti-capitalist sentiments from conspiracies. The fraternity has nothing to do with your Marxism.

Originally posted by adrenochrome
it's doubtful that those are even his own words... Father Staempfle, a Jesuit, was responsible for most of Mein Kampf.

Assuming this were true - and frankly I don't believe it is as the evidence for this does not meet any standard of credibility - exactly why would this be relevant to freemasonry? How is this related to your distrust of freemasonry? The Jesuit order has no connection to masons.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


you're right about Hitler, Augustus, about him not wanting to focus on the masons. it's just that i've always wondered why he persecuted them period - i mean afterall, they're just white people seeking power, too - i believe Hitler just got greedy. and as for researching, you're right again - all we can do is our own research to come to our own logical, sensible conclusions. i also appreciate your sincere tone in your responses on this thread and in many others, Augustus - i just wish i could say the same for the other masons that reply in a condescending manner, as if they think they're better than others...

TO ALL MASONS HERE: I AM NOT AGAINST YOU!!! i've inquired about joining the freemasons before, but decided not to because i don't think it's for me. i'm not the type of person that needs a label to feel better about myself - helping your fellow man is what it's ALL about; i just don't see a need for a secretive fraternity if there truly is one way of life - service-to-others with love and wisdom! the TRUE brotherhood of mankind has NOTHING to do with a snake or serpent...

EDIT: and i'd like to ask you, LowLevelMason, why the name, if there is no other type of mason? are you just an "entered apprentice"?

There is nothing BUT normal, every-day freemasons. There is no other type.

moreover, would the Knight's Templar exist without freemasonry? please explain to me why you think they're completely unrelated

[edit on 16-9-2008 by adrenochrome]