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Pakistan troop fire turns back U.S. helicopters

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posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 05:09 AM
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Pakistan troop fire turns back U.S. helicopters


www.alertnet.org

ISLAMABAD, Sept 15 (Reuters) - Firing by Pakistani troops forced U.S. military helicopters to turn back to Afghanistan after they crossed into Pakistani territory in the early hours of Monday, Pakistani security officials said.

The incident took place near Angor Adda, a village in the tribal region of South Waziristan where U.S. commandos in helicopters raided a suspected al Qaeda and Taliban camp earlier this month.

\\\\\\\"The U.S. choppers came into Pakistan by just 100 to 150 metres at Angor Adda. Even then our troops did not spare them, opened fire on them and they turned away,\\\\\\\" said one security official.
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 05:09 AM
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South Waziristan is one of the main areas from which Islamist militants launch attacks into Afghanistan.

www.alertnet.org
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 06:36 AM
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Maybe the Pakistani's are getting sick of being involved in the US's little game.

Wasn't it a Pakistani general who was friendly to the US and CIA that paid one of the Hijackers in 911?

Its possible they are having a change of conscience, or even that they are sick of US soldiers killing Pakistani's because of false flag and "war on terror" that they helped instigate.

If this is not possible, then why are the US not at least verbally retaliating?



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 06:54 AM
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Well it appears that details are very sketchy right now concerning this incident.

It was reported by villagers and local officials.

Both the Pakistani and US military deny their version of the encounter.

It is a mish mash of accounts, so could it be true? Of course, but are there other possibilities? Yes.

Could the helicopters have been trying to draw fire so as to identify targets for the Pakistani military? maybe.

Were the helicopters in Pakistan as the villagers say or were they 150 meters from the Pakistan border as the Pakistani military spokesman reported? I don't know but from what has been reported in the past, the border is not so easily definable so conflicting stories would naturally occur.

So something happened, is it what is represented by the article's title? It is possible, but it also reminds us that headlines are there for shock value, attention grabbers, it sure got my attention


In this case the headline is only one possibility of the event, as explained within the article itself.

Thanks to the OP for sharing the article, more pieces to a puzzle, it will be interesting to see how this story pans out in the next couple of weeks.



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 06:58 AM
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it was mentioned the PAF will fire on US troops attacking its own citizens



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 07:19 AM
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reply to post by Harlequin
 


That's true, I acknowledge that bit of info, but you have to look at all of the info.

Are there Pak Military leaders sympathetic to the regional leaders? Yes

Could they be protecting those the US are trying to find ? Yes

Has the US crossed into the area? YES

Can we agree that the area is very chaotic? Accurate information hard to disseminate?

All sides have their own story which is to be expected, I am not saying this didn't happen, just trying to look at it from an objective point of view.

It's hard to ferret out the truth when I can honestly say I don't trust anyone who chimed in on this incident, including the US military.

All I know is something is happening.

Will we ever hear the TRUTH? I doubt it, we are spoon fed what others want us to believe, most often it is twisted to a certain perspective, and the truth is conveniently lost in the mix.



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 07:30 AM
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reply to post by SaveTheDrama
 


a very politico twist on events you have;

the PAK government has said it will not tolerate attacks by the USA on its own nationals and its own military will defend it own citizens;

unlike what the US media want you to believe , the US cannot go where ever it feels like carte blanche as pakistan is now saying.

as for



Could they be protecting those the US are trying to find ? Yes


that is just guessing on your part quite frankly

the FACT is that pakistan has had enough of the murder of its own nationals by the gung ho US military and is starting now to do something about it.



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 07:43 AM
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Pakistan is just as bad as Afghanistan, secretly they support terrorists. Openly they act western orientated.

Not surprising after Bush threatened to bomb Pakistan into the middle ages after 9/11



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 07:55 AM
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reply to post by Harlequin
 


Not politico, just common sense, taking everything known of the region, taking the history of the US covertly crossing borders, I am willing to wager that the reported incursion by the US days ago was not the first nor will it be the last, it is a war after all.

The PAK gov't has a history of appeasing the region by issuing statements, it is a delicate situation for them, understandably so, I wouldn't want to be in their shoes.

I may perceive the situation different than yourself, that's alright in my book..

We are entitled to our own opinions


We just seem to disagree on this one.



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 08:14 AM
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reply to post by SaveTheDrama
 


I think we are comeing to a crossorads in the ME - where countries are sick of being bullied by the US and will start fighting back , 1 by 1 ; and given the state of the US economy - the back is nearly broken quite sadly.


Originally posted by bicnarok
Pakistan is just as bad as Afghanistan, secretly they support terrorists. Openly they act western orientated.

Not surprising after Bush threatened to bomb Pakistan into the middle ages after 9/11


The US supports and funds terrorism , so does that make anyone really any less worse as the rest?



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 08:22 AM
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reply to post by Harlequin
 


Now that is something I can agree with you on, it is written record that if you look at the who the US government backed supported, and bounce it against who the US government has later considered enemies, it isn't hard to see that those in charge of the US government has been quite successful in creating their own misery.

Noriega, Hussein, Bin Laden just to name a few, and for this reason I can understand why my country would be looked at in the fashion you describe.

Don't forget Musharraf into that mix, put 2 + 2 together and it worries me.

I am guessing again that most people in the world would appreciate it if those in power would exercise that power in more peaceful and less deceitful means.

I know I am one.



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 08:25 AM
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And Pakistan has nukes , and the chess pieces are moving



now heres a question - what if all this noise over Iran is just smoke and mirrors for moves against PAK and IND ?



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 08:35 AM
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reply to post by Harlequin
 


Scary thought, and a situation I hope doesn't come to pass, but if I had to speculate, seeing as how the US just reversed themselves and has now sold Israel those bunker busting bombs (I think they were delivered prior to the announcement, conspiracy mind
) I would tend to think that Israel would be tasked to confront Iran with US back up from the troops in Iraq.

That leaves the US Afghan forces to focus on the Pak-Afghan border region.


But there is NO WAY anything like that would be unchallenged by China & Russia, so while it is speculation, it is a highly unlikely one IMO. that risks a world war.

But as I hinted before, world leaders, (US included), haven't been known to make the best decisions in history, that's what worries me.

As you said chess pieces....

We are the pawns..



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 08:42 AM
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Originally posted by Harlequin
reply to post by SaveTheDrama
 


I think we are comeing to a crossorads in the ME - where countries are sick of being bullied by the US and will start fighting back , 1 by 1 ; and given the state of the US economy - the back is nearly broken quite sadly.


Originally posted by bicnarok
Pakistan is just as bad as Afghanistan, secretly they support terrorists. Openly they act western orientated.

Not surprising after Bush threatened to bomb Pakistan into the middle ages after 9/11


The US supports and funds terrorism , so does that make anyone really any less worse as the rest?


Pakistan is not in the Midlle East! This notion and inflated idea that the US somehow sponsors and endorses suicide bombings is abstract to the truth. The unlawful regions and terrorist safe havens, directly effect US national security and it's citizens, ironically enough it is even more of a threat to Pakistan itself. The Pakistani government have for too long appeased these terrorists and fear an uprising should they confront it. Well a a further ironic twist is that such weak policy actually serves in strenghtening them. The only affective policy is strength and force, these terrorists understand nothing else and sometimes you have to bring yourself to their level in order to defeat them.



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 08:58 AM
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reply to post by Harlequin
 


Pakistan is a member of the Commonwealth and has protested to the United Kingdom about the recent attacks in its borders. The UK government refused to support the notion of military action against the wishes of Pakistan.



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 09:08 AM
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Lehman Brothers are holding a press conference in London in the next few minutes. Should be interesting. Explanation of how the assets will be sold off - which could spook the markets even more.

Famous last words, but I believe the markets have currently found a support level. No more sharp drops.



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 09:44 AM
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reply to post by theblunttruth
 



Pakistan is not in the Midlle East!


actually it is , and thats depending on which country in which geography is taught


This notion and inflated idea that the US somehow sponsors and endorses suicide bombings is abstract to the truth. The unlawful regions and terrorist safe havens, directly effect US national security and it's citizens, ironically enough it is even more of a threat to Pakistan itself.


The US supplied weapons to the taleban for use against the USSR , the USA supplies weapons to ethopia and the warlords in sudan to fight against the legitimate government , the US is sponsering iranian terror cells to fight against the legimate (but anti western) government

shall i continue? these countries consider the USA a direct threat to there own national security and there own citizens , by direct and indirect fighting , wether that is military bombings within there own borders or by supplying the tools for local terror cells to use (tehran last year)

so `unlawful regions` some would consider the USA to be an unlawful region.


The Pakistani government have for too long appeased these terrorists and fear an uprising should they confront it. Well a a further ironic twist is that such weak policy actually serves in strenghtening them. The only affective policy is strength and force, these terrorists understand nothing else and sometimes you have to bring yourself to their level in order to defeat them


`appeased these terrorist` - actually they have appeased the west - much as india has done - india very much knows when `good relations` with the USA can turn aro8und and bite you in the ass over night - remember the sanction against india were only lifted a few years ago;

the political system in pakistan is nothing like the USA , so you cannot draw direct comparisons between the 2 - shall i say that the republicans and democrats `appease` the terrorists who bomb other countries? all the name of US national security?



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 10:46 AM
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Originally posted by Harlequin
reply to post by theblunttruth
 



Pakistan is not in the Midlle East!


actually it is , and thats depending on which country in which geography is taught


This notion and inflated idea that the US somehow sponsors and endorses suicide bombings is abstract to the truth. The unlawful regions and terrorist safe havens, directly effect US national security and it's citizens, ironically enough it is even more of a threat to Pakistan itself.


The US supplied weapons to the taleban for use against the USSR , the USA supplies weapons to ethopia and the warlords in sudan to fight against the legitimate government , the US is sponsering iranian terror cells to fight against the legimate (but anti western) government

shall i continue? these countries consider the USA a direct threat to there own national security and there own citizens , by direct and indirect fighting , wether that is military bombings within there own borders or by supplying the tools for local terror cells to use (tehran last year)

so `unlawful regions` some would consider the USA to be an unlawful region.


The Pakistani government have for too long appeased these terrorists and fear an uprising should they confront it. Well a a further ironic twist is that such weak policy actually serves in strenghtening them. The only affective policy is strength and force, these terrorists understand nothing else and sometimes you have to bring yourself to their level in order to defeat them


`appeased these terrorist` - actually they have appeased the west - much as india has done - india very much knows when `good relations` with the USA can turn aro8und and bite you in the ass over night - remember the sanction against india were only lifted a few years ago;

the political system in pakistan is nothing like the USA , so you cannot draw direct comparisons between the 2 - shall i say that the republicans and democrats `appease` the terrorists who bomb other countries? all the name of US national security?


Granted, Middle East "borders" are open to interpretation so lets agree to disagree. I would however, class Pakistan as Asia. As it closer resembles India than any Arab/Persian state.

I agree with you on that one Harlequin. Governments (not just US) have historically and grudgingly armed "enemies" in the larger conflict and concept of "greater enemy". But this doesn't necessarily make them terrorists perse. The war waged now has the purpose of eradicating not just a force but an ideology. Russia and the US armed Saddam, does that imply they conform to his ideals, absolutely not. They are vehemently against it. It's the bigger picture. I'm not condoning such actions, but am merely trying to differentiate between that and the terrorism we talk of.

[edit on 15-9-2008 by theblunttruth]



[edit on 15-9-2008 by theblunttruth]



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 02:47 PM
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Hi There,

STD:

Well it appears that details are very sketchy right now concerning this incident.


Not really, nothing sketchy about this incident at all...
news.bbc.co.uk...
...Us troops thought they could sneak once more into a sovereign country without gaining permission or co-operation from the host government prior to doing so. The Pakistani troops fired into the air with warning shots to ensure that the insurgent US troops changed their minds and policy...how prudent of the US invaders to back off. It stems from this...

It emerged last week that US President George W Bush has in recent months authorised military raids against militants inside Pakistan without prior approval from Islamabad.
...and this, too...
news.bbc.co.uk...

Basically, Pakistan has now warned the US that they risk losing the lives of their troops by continuing these sneaky, unauthorised raids. Kudos to the Pakistanis I say. Truly, if the US tried to do the same to my country I would applaud the troops of my country if they too sent the invaders packing.

[edit on 15/9/08 by elysiumfire]



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 02:53 PM
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Originally posted by bicnarok
Pakistan is just as bad as Afghanistan, secretly they support terrorists. Openly they act western orientated.


Wow, sounds much like our ally, Saudi Arabia. I wonder if Pakistan would be treated differently if they were sitting on top of a large pool of oil?

[edit on 15-9-2008 by clay2 baraka]



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