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Ego vs Personality

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posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 04:19 AM
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Here's something I wrote up a year or more back. I'm going to quote myself and then expand on it a little further afterwords. As always, any language I use that speaks in absolute terms is only meant for ease of writing and communication. It is all my personal viewpoints given my study and observation. In other words, just add "in my humble opinion" where appropriate.


According to the dictionary 'Ego' has several definitions. The definition that is closest to what I mean when I refer to ego is, "egotism; conceit; self-importance".

Specifically, I consider 'ego' to be "the programmed part of self that feels the need to see oneself as better than another; the part that judges others against self; the part that rationalizes instead of working on refining; the part that lies to itself". I see the 'ego' as being just a programmed way of thinking.

I see the 'personality' as the full expression of self. I do not see 'ego' and 'personality' as synonymous although they can be depending on the definition one chooses. Looking at the dictionary 'personality' has 9 definition and 'ego' has 6. So there is some room there and the chosen definition is usually seen by the context in which it is used.

Utilizing the definition above I do consider the ego to be something that is to be transmuted. I see personality as something to be refined.

Spiritually speaking I do not see ascension or even Oneness as the personality being dissolved. To me it wouldn't make any sense. Thinking about what it would be like to be the Original Vibration, it's got to get lonely. Now being the O.V. you can just go and split yourself off but it just isn't that fulfilling. What would be more fulfilling is creating unique conscious thought forms and an environment for them to grow in. That way when they do grow up completely they are not simply an exact reflection of self. Each is unique in the way they have integrated how existence works. And in that there is an infinite number of consciousness to consciousness exchanges. To wish homogenization would seem to completely defeat the purpose of unique creations and an ever expanding environment of learning. For doesn't the parent grow directly from the interaction with the child learning of it's environment and itself?

Objectivity isn't the dissolving of personality. It's the integration of reality without wishful thinking. The hard part I've found with this, is that subjectivity is taught to us as reality. Until these programs from society are examined honestly, such programs are taken as the personality.

The true expression of the unique vibrational signature of self can really only be revealed once these programs are decoded and seen for what they are. Otherwise that expression of self gets dampened and distorted when filtered through these programs.


Using the definition of 'ego' that I use above, I see it as a thought pattern overlay that we learn through our interactions in this society. I also see it as a mental dis-ease.

Since the ego works so well in society (by design I suspect) it becomes intertwined with our personality to the point where we can't see the difference. We then identify with this way of thinking. We think it is who we are.

But there is no need to constantly compare ourselves as better or worse than another in order to express our unique personality vibration. There is no need to feel slighted by others that think themselves higher that us. I personally think that we each have the same potential (in an infinite universe) and therefore are always equal. Some may be further ahead than others but that doesn't make them better. Some may be behind but that doesn't make them worse.

I think that the issue arises when the definitions of self and ego (using the definition above) are used synonymously.

So again, whenever I personally use the term ego I mean "egotism; conceit; self-importance" and the near constant need to compare oneself to others in order to feel some identity. When I say "feed the ego" I mean putting others down in order to elicit negative emotions in that individual so as to puff oneself up or to put oneself on a pedestal. If I say the ego needs to be dissolved I mean that we should start to see that everyone has equal potential and we are therefore no better or worse than another. I say worse because the ego has it's counterbalance called victim mentality and self loathing.

All that said, I'm not sure what to replace the term ego with in order ensure everyone knows the definition I'm referring to. Maybe simply "self-importance" would be a viable substitute.

My reason for posting this is because I see gaps in communication due to the utilization of different definitions for one term. It's always my objective to bridge such gaps so that all involved are on the same page when discussing these important issues. By, same page, I don't mean agree with each other. Some may think that self-importance and putting others down to puff the self up are viable assets to the personality. I only mean, that we understand what we each are saying.

What say ye?




posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 05:49 AM
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We don't all have equal potential.

I think I see what you're trying to convey, but it's not coming off as you'd like.

If someone is better than someone else at something, then yes, it makes that other person worse then the person that is better, relative to one another.

We all play equal roles and we all have an equal input and output to society and life, but equal potential as far as skills are concerned is not true.



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 06:24 AM
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nice read and nice study, here s some other definitions for ego :

Ego is "that emotional and psychological knot in consciousness that is the fundamental cause of the sense of separation from all of life. From the spiritual perspective, this is defined as pride, self-importance, and the narcissistic need to always see oneself as being separate – separate from others, separate from the world, separate from the whole universe. Ego is a love-denying obsession with separation, narcissism, and self-concern." --Andrew Cohen

"On the psychological level, the sense of lack and incompleteness is, if anything, even greater than on the physical level. As long as you are identified with the mind, you have an externally derived sense of self. That is to say, you get your sense of who you are from things that ultimately have nothing to do with who you are: your social role, possessions, externl appearance, successes and failures, belief systems, and so on. This false, mind-made self, the ego, feels vulnerable, insecure, and is always seeking new things to identify with to give it a feeling that it exists. But nothing is ever enough to give it lasting fulfillment. Its fear remains; its sense of lack and needineess remains." ---Eckhart Tolle

"Life seems to consist merely of a series of battles between dualities - good and evil, happiness and sorrow, pleasure and pain - a struggle to pursue one thing and to avoid its opposite . . . this struggle of the opposites is only an illusion resulting from our imprisonment within the psychological ego. It is the ego, the sum total of all our defects, that separates us from our spiritual self and causes all our suffering. The ego ensnares our consciousness - the Divine Spark within each of us - in a web of illusion that prevents us from comprehending our true nature and identity." - Samael Aun Weor

"The image of ourselves that grows out of our time-and-sense-bound consciousness is, in an ultimate sense, unreal. In fact, all of our self-limiting activities grow out of this false picture of ourselves. As a result of this false picture, we postulate a dualistic world of self and other, of things separated and isolated, of pain and struggle, birth and death, killing and being killed. This picture is untrue because it barely scratches the surface. It is like looking at the one-eighth of an iceberg above the water and refusing to acknowledge the seven-eighths underneath. For if we could see beyond the ever-changing forms into the underlying reality, we would realize that fundamentally there is nothing but harmony and unity and that this perfection is no different from the phenomenal world of incessant change and transformation.
Now ego, that shadowy, phantomlike figure with insatiable desires and a lust for dominance, sits astride the senses like some oriental potentate. Or, to change the simile, ego is like a magician carrying up his sleeve the deadly tricks of greed, anger, and wrong thinking. Worse, he is quite capable of rationalizing his actions with an air of sweet reasonableness. This wily and slippery conjurer deludes us into believing we can enjoy the delights of the senses without pain only by delivering ourselves into his hands . . . " - Zen Master Phillip Kapleau

These are the anwsers to the questions, if everyone would realise this, we would live in a totally different world.
These are trully words of wisdom.




posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 08:22 AM
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Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
We don't all have equal potential.

I think I see what you're trying to convey, but it's not coming off as you'd like.

If someone is better than someone else at something, then yes, it makes that other person worse then the person that is better, relative to one another.

We all play equal roles and we all have an equal input and output to society and life, but equal potential as far as skills are concerned is not true.


I'm not concerned with physical limitations, society, or this life since all these things are temporary. I'm speaking of the infinity within as we are all part of the fabric of existence.

Your interpretation put what I said at the purely physical level and thus it won't sound right since I'm not speaking only of the physical. The physical is only a small portion of it, from my perspective.


===================

reply to post by Enuma Elish
 


Wonderful contribution. Thank you.



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 08:42 AM
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Originally posted by OmniVersal
The physical is only a small portion of it, from my perspective.


Provide some form of proof or logic that anything beyond physical exists.

No, we don't all have equal potential. We are physical beings.

You can't deny evidence and facts and then make us play this game of chase the invisible infinite force within us that makes us all equally potent. It doesn't work that way.

How are we all equal? It's for you to explain. I'll tell you right now that we aren't. We all have things in common, such as being unique, but we're not all equal, that's the reality.

As individuals, the answer to your theory is a no. We're not all equal as individuals. But as I said, we are all equally important, playing different roles, etc.



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 09:28 AM
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Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
Provide some form of proof or logic that anything beyond physical exists.

I knew things at a very young age that I didn't learn. I understood things that even adults around me did not see. Neither my parents nor grandparents were geniuses so it wasn't passed in the genes. It's not proof, but it's enough for me to know that I existed before I was born.



No, we don't all have equal potential. We are physical beings.

If you believe we are only physical beings then you will not enjoy my threads.



You can't deny evidence and facts and then make us play this game of chase the invisible infinite force within us that makes us all equally potent. It doesn't work that way.

No one is making you do anything. No one is denying that we are currently inhabiting physical bodies.



How are we all equal? It's for you to explain.

I already did. It's your limited perspective that refuses to consider it.



I'll tell you right now that we aren't. We all have things in common, such as being unique, but we're not all equal, that's the reality.

Physically speaking, I agree.



As individuals, the answer to your theory is a no. We're not all equal as individuals. But as I said, we are all equally important, playing different roles, etc.

Physically speaking, I agree.



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 09:38 AM
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Originally posted by OmniVersal
It's not proof, but it's enough for me to know that I existed before I was born.


That means nothing, there is no proof. So how do you suddenly jump to conclude that it's enough for you to know that you as an individual existed before you were born?

My family is the same way! By far none of them are geniuses. I am ten fold more intellectual than anyone in my family. This does not constitute the reincarnation of my being.

The mere fact that we're having a discussion on things "beyond the physical" is revealing on the matter of your psychological state and connection with reality. If you mean beyond the current knowledge of the physical, then we can agree on something, but then exactly what?

Anything that is not physical is irrelevant to existence. This is a physical existence, all things are physical and have physical roots, even your emotions being chemical reactions.

An invisible thing that can never be known is a farce and a lie, completely unsubstantial and manipulatively deceptive.


If you believe we are only physical beings then you will not enjoy my threads.


It's not a belief, I know we are only physical beings. Knowledge defeats speculation.


No one is making you do anything. No one is denying that we are currently inhabiting physical bodies.


I see from this statement that you may be inferring that you believe in individual "souls"?


I already did. It's your limited perspective that refuses to consider it.


I see no where have you provided a definition for our equality. All you've said is that there is an invisible infinite force within us that is beyond the physical that makes us all equal.

Hell, using this logic let me have a shot at it. There is an invisible infinite force within us that makes us all rabbits.


So, what are you trying to say? Please take your time.



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 09:44 AM
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I can't understand how you can make statements like this.

"Objectivity isn't the dissolving of personality. It's the integration of reality without wishful thinking. The hard part I've found with this, is that subjectivity is taught to us as reality. Until these programs from society are examined honestly, such programs are taken as the personality."

Which I couldn't agree with more, it's my thoughts exactly!

Then you go on to reply to me with wishful thinking about your past life and the invisible infinite source within us that makes us all equal without providing any objective or logical discerning evidence.

I won't simply believe just because you say so. To add a quibble: I've already proven why no individual eternal souls can ever exist. I'll send you a link to the thread if you haven't read it yet. You can have a go at it there.



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 10:28 AM
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Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
That means nothing, there is no proof. So how do you suddenly jump to conclude that it's enough for you to know that you as an individual existed before you were born?

It means nothing to you.



My family is the same way! By far none of them are geniuses. I am ten fold more intellectual than anyone in my family. This does not constitute the reincarnation of my being.

I'm not speaking of intelligence. I'm speaking of knowing things that I did not learn nor was taught.



The mere fact that we're having a discussion on things "beyond the physical" is revealing on the matter of your psychological state and connection with reality.

Oh nice. Does that statement make you feel more secure about yourself?



If you mean beyond the current knowledge of the physical, then we can agree on something, but then exactly what?

We could possibly agree on things regarding the physical.



Anything that is not physical is irrelevant to existence. This is a physical existence, all things are physical and have physical roots, even your emotions being chemical reactions.

That is what you say.



An invisible thing that can never be known is a farce and a lie, completely unsubstantial and manipulatively deceptive.

Those that have touched intelligent infinity know.



It's not a belief, I know we are only physical beings. Knowledge defeats speculation.

Where is your proof that nothing exists beyond the physical?



I see from this statement that you may be inferring that you believe in individual "souls"?

Fractalized awareness experiencing itself as individual.



I see no where have you provided a definition for our equality. All you've said is that there is an invisible infinite force within us that is beyond the physical that makes us all equal.

If two things are infinite then how are they different?



Hell, using this logic let me have a shot at it. There is an invisible infinite force within us that makes us all rabbits.

Excellent straw man.



So, what are you trying to say? Please take your time.

I'm not trying to say anything. I said what I said. Take it or leave it.



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 10:42 AM
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Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
I can't understand how you can make statements like this.

"Objectivity isn't the dissolving of personality. It's the integration of reality without wishful thinking. The hard part I've found with this, is that subjectivity is taught to us as reality. Until these programs from society are examined honestly, such programs are taken as the personality."

Which I couldn't agree with more, it's my thoughts exactly!

Then you go on to reply to me with wishful thinking about your past life and the invisible infinite source within us that makes us all equal without providing any objective or logical discerning evidence.

I won't simply believe just because you say so. To add a quibble: I've already proven why no individual eternal souls can ever exist. I'll send you a link to the thread if you haven't read it yet. You can have a go at it there.


It's only wishful thinking from your perspective. You have not experienced the things I have. You have come to your conclusions and everything else is false. It's a good thing scientists don't do that or we wouldn't be beyond the "earth is flat" idea.

I could prove there is more beyond the physical if I had the resources to do so.

I'm not asking you to believe me. I'm not attempting to persuade you. I'm only answering your questions.

I read your thread and you didn't prove anything.

What is your true purpose here? To use our limited physical perspectives to attempt to prove there is nothing beyond the physical? To belittle anyone that doesn't fall in line with your thinking? To show the extent of your conceit? To show your insecurity with your own "knowledge"? To waste other people's time? To waste other people's energy? To cause division and create argument?



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 10:51 AM
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Originally posted by OmniVersal
It means nothing to you.


That's because you're delusional, that's what it means to me. So what were you in your past life? An animal or a Human?



I'm not speaking of intelligence. I'm speaking of knowing things that I did not learn nor was taught.


Such as? What did you know that was not taught to you nor did you learn it?


Oh nice. Does that statement make you feel more secure about yourself?


No, I'm already as secure as it gets. I'm just pointing yourself out to you.


We could possibly agree on things regarding the physical.


Okay. But that doesn't answer my question. Are you not going to or did you pass it up on purpose?

I'll restate it. When you say beyond the physical, do you mean beyond the current knowledge of the physical, or literally beyond the physical, such as nothingness? Because nothingness is not a something that exists, therefore if you're attempting to make me believe that you have had past lives etc. through trying to deceive me through the semantics of non-existent invisibilities, then you're not going to get anywhere because your basis is non-existent, thus you must find your argument to be magically legitimized through illogical subjectivity.

When it comes to the infinite non-physical source in us we can all be rabbits, and you can't disprove it because it doesn't exist! You have to simply believe me! Take it or leave it! We're all rabbits I tell you! Rabbits!


That is what you say.


And that's the way that it is.


Those that have touched intelligent infinity know.


I'm right here.


Where is your proof that nothing exists beyond the physical?


Anything existing is 3-d, physical and real, not invisible and non-physical.

It's funny that you, claiming that things exist beyond the physical, ask me for proof of nothing existing beyond the physical. I'll go ahead and do this for you because you'll never provide proof of that which does not exist, trust me. It's pretty simple to figure out. You can sit here and attempt to persuade me all day long that the infinite invisible non-physical source is within you making us all equal and your past life is endowing you with knowledge that you were not taught and did not learn.

You do realize that if we all did this we could make up anything that we wanted and we could all be a bunch of deluded whack jobs running around saying whatever we want with no logic or reason, jsut fairy tale and fantasy... oh, wait... religion. It already exists.

Nothing exists beyond the physical because existence, that which is energy and energy that which is physical, is an eternal one. Nothing - an absence of space and time. There is no absence of space existing to separate or come between anyone, because absence is an absence of space! Space is physical! There is no beyond the physical.

Here, read this thread PLEASE! Do not reply if you don't read this thread because I'm not going to repeat the entire thread when you can jsut go read it, it explains everything you are questioning.

Why there are no individual eternal souls: Irrefutable logic.


If two things are infinite then how are they different?


Two things can't be infinite. Only one.


Excellent straw man.


It was YOUR logic.


I'm not trying to say anything. I said what I said. Take it or leave it.


Well, whatever you said, it made no sense. I think I and most others would rather leave it. Your O.P. was better, I find it difficult to believe that you even wrote any of that now, although I'm sure you did. It's like I'm conversing with an absolutely different person. You spoke of the difference between the objective and the subjective so well, then you go and reveal that you have knowledge from past lives. Well, what knowledge?



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 11:01 AM
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Originally posted by OmniVersal
You have come to your conclusions and everything else is false. It's a good thing scientists don't do that or we wouldn't be beyond the "earth is flat" idea.


No, actually that's exactly what scientists do! It's a good thing scientists do that! If it wasn't for brave scientists, sometimes a single scientist standing up against the world and saying, look, screw your fearful, deceitful wishful thinking, you're ALL wrong and I'm right. Then the Earth would still be thought to be flat.

It's a good thing I do that to you! These aren't MY conclusions, they are universal.


I could prove there is more beyond the physical if I had the resources to do so.


Don't you realize how contradictory this is? Anything that you find will be physical. The non-physical is the non-existent, you'll never find it because it doesn't exist, never has!


What is your true purpose here? To use our limited physical perspectives to attempt to prove there is nothing beyond the physical? To belittle anyone that doesn't fall in line with your thinking? To show the extent of your conceit? To show your insecurity with your own "knowledge"? To waste other people's time? To waste other people's energy? To cause division and create argument?


Well good, you read my thread and it didn't prove anything. Would you like to please either explain why it doesn't prove anything in this thread or go to my thread and explain so in it? That would be nice. Because if it didn't prove anything then that surely means that you have refuted the logic that I presented. I for one know for sure that it is impossible to do so.

I'm here to give you the truth. It has very little to do with me and everything to do with the knowledge. Why can't you focus on the knowledge, the facts? Why must you always turn this into a character competition? I don't even see you or recognize your person at this point, all I see are your words and the logic or lack thereof that they behest.

[edit on 15-9-2008 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 06:07 PM
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You win. You are right and everyone else is wrong. There's no point in you continuing to try to explain such deep concepts to me. I'm already lost in my world of delusion and fearful, deceitful wishful thinking. Please do not waste another second on a lost cause such as I. Go spread your truth to more deserving individuals.



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 06:16 PM
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You're also hyper-sensitive and you have a low self-esteem, you're weak and you give up easily. Then you resort to playing the victim and exercising sarcasm filled with innuendos of insult instead of accepting where you are wrong.

Hey, you dug your own hole. I don't feel any remorse.

Good luck creating 2 infinities.

I'm disappointed that you couldn't tell me what knowledge it is that you had from your past life.

Through my experiences it appears that 90% of members on this website have serious social problems.

[edit on 15-9-2008 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 06:40 PM
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Why must you always turn this into a character competition?



You're also hyper-sensitive and you have a low self-esteem, you're weak and you give up easily.



On another note, you understood my sarcasm but didn't take the hint. Therefore, I'll say it outright. It would be silly of me to continue to waste my time on your juvenile pettiness. When you can grow up and examine yourself objectively then maybe we can get somewhere. Otherwise, our interaction is over. Please don't attempt to further waste my time.



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 06:47 PM
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You can't handle my intellect.

Go back to your B.s. then cause I don't want to be involved. You're a liar and you're confused, as shown. When it comes down to really getting dirty with the facts and the knowledge, you pull cop-out character fights and subjective opinions against objective analysis to end the conversation so that you can protect your subjective delusion from being taken away. Ignorance is bliss, enjoy yourself.

We can all walk around all day long and go... that's what YOU think. That's just F'n great buddy. It's not going to get you anywhere until you prove what is actually true and not just opinion.

You don't understand the difference between subjective and objective. Go educate yourself.

[edit on 15-9-2008 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 06:56 PM
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Originally posted by OmniVersal
My reason for posting this is because I see gaps in communication due to the utilization of different definitions for one term. It's always my objective to bridge such gaps so that all involved are on the same page when discussing these important issues. By, same page, I don't mean agree with each other. Some may think that self-importance and putting others down to puff the self up are viable assets to the personality. I only mean, that we understand what we each are saying.

What say ye?


You should be a man of your claimed values. When I ask for understanding you have nothing to give me but the infinite invisible source inside of you, when I ask for an understanding you run away and say "na na", that's what YOU think.

I've really hit a nerve, haven't I? You should spend the rest of your life trying to find the non-physical, and when you realize it doesn't exist I hope you laugh and cry at all the people you've been trying to deceive with the invisible infinite thing that backs up your past lives.

Why don't you go take some time to explain what you mean.

What's the point of sharing if you can't accept where you're wrong? You just want anyone that proves you wrong to go away. It's not like I was using semantics and parody and dirty tactics. I was enforcing logic. Tough luck man, go cry to someone else. I don't feel sorry for you. I think I'm going to add you to my ignore list, too. I'm going to start adding a lot more people to my ignore list so that this site actually seems good again. I'm tired of little children minds that don't know how to have conversations and don't understand words and are lost in new age B.S. about telekinesis and past lives and individual eternal souls. You're all getting ignored.

[edit on 15-9-2008 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 07:01 PM
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The ego is the 'conscious will'. Without it we would be unable to either be domineering nor subservient. It is the ego which chooses either way. It has nothing to do with the unconscious, but rather lies fully within the conscious part of our psyche.

It is as if the ego, given birth from the unconscious in an infant, turns its back on that part and, after becoming aware of 'will', never looks back.


Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
What did you know that was not taught to you nor did you learn it?




collective unconscious
In psychology, a shared pool of memories, ideas, modes of thought, and so on, which, according to the Swiss psychiatrist Carl Jung, comes from the life experience of one's ancestors, indeed from the entire human race. It coexists with the personal unconscious, which contains the material of individual experience, and may be regarded as an immense depository of ancient wisdom.

Primal experiences are represented in the collective unconscious by archetypes, symbolic pictures, or personifications that appear in dreams and are the common element in myths, fairy tales, and the literature of the world's religions. Examples include the serpent, the sphinx, the Great Mother, the anima (representing the nature of woman), and the mandala (representing balanced wholeness, human or divine).

encyclopedia.farlex.com...



Knowledge I've had from a (my?) past life;

When I was abour 4 yrs old, I dreamt of being buried beneath a pile of wet naked bodies, of all ages and both sexes. Struggling to get out from beneath the suffocating weight, I managed to extricate myself and subsequently 'died' (awoke).

That was ~1950.

I told my grandfather about the dream the next day and he was VERY troubled by what I'd told him. It was not until many years later that I learned about the Nazi gas chambers.



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 07:06 PM
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Then I guess the evil bunny with long fangs and a drooling, bottom lip leaking of saliva, with red eyes that has chased me on many occasions really exists.

A dream is a dream. We can find meaning in them if we choose, but to state absolutely that you lived a past life simply because you had a dream that resembled an event that happened on Earth, is extremely naive and gullible.

Also, I guess blind people had no past lives, or they were always blind, because they dream predominately in sound and touch. That goes for all of those with sense defects, etc.

[edit on 15-9-2008 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 07:13 PM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
Then I guess the evil bunny with long fangs and a drooling, bottom lip leaking of saliva, with red eyes that has chased me on many occasions really exists.


Tone is everything in communication, isn't it?

I state absolutely that I had the dream. I also state absolutely that I believe it was from a past life.

You dispute it, and that is fair.

What is not fair is the tone with which you attack it.

In a thread dedicated to the ego, I find that to be quite revealing.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.





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