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About Eternity

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posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 06:13 PM
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I was thinking today about the concept of eternity we have and we kind of pass on to every new generation since the beginning of whatever was that created the concept, I’ve known some people who, as i do, ask themselves how something can be forever, and how it can’t have a beginning?

My theory is that eternity is just a temporal phase in our current reality, by this i mean, eternity can be achieved, but only from our perspective of finite beings, for example, we know we had a beginning with the big bang, at least as far as we think we know, so before that, something else must have been or still is there, so my thoughts are that we are just part of a temporary reality, and there should be beings outside this reality that were before and will be after, from our perspective, those beings should be eternal, because they were before and will be after, but that does not mean they will not have an ending too.

To put is simple, look at flies, they live about 4 weeks or so right? so from they’re perspective, we are eternal, we were before, we will be later, it is just a matter of perspective..

Of course i find some weak points in my theory, for instance, this does not explains how realities can interact and if universes or realities could be nested, still there has to be a beginning reality that started it all, but, what was before that?

I've been thinking a lot about this lately, i would like to improve this ideas as i am sure there can be knowledge in all of us that lead the path to the truth, so we may have to unite forces and minds to find this path.

What do you think?

By the way, this thread is also a post in my blog, which goes unnamed here...

Regards

Kai




posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 06:27 PM
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No, it's not a matter of perspective. You can not take the words and do with them as you'd like to fit your, whatever you call that, idea?

Eternal means to have no beginning and no end, PERIOD. It's not a matter of perspective, it's a definition, it is definitive.

The big bang is a crock anyway. It doesn't even mold to basic physics laws.



posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 06:40 PM
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Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
No, it's not a matter of perspective. You can not take the words and do with them as you'd like to fit your, whatever you call that, idea?

Eternal means to have no beginning and no end, PERIOD. It's not a matter of perspective, it's a definition, it is definitive.

The big bang is a crock anyway. It doesn't even mold to basic physics laws.


Words can mean whatever people decides they should mean, a square is a square only we we call it that, if we decided to call it circle still it will be the same shape, and it will make perfect sense to see what we now call square and identify it as a circle, why do you seem to be so angry?

If we already knew everything there will be no point in living or thinking or doing anything at all, unless somebody can come out with undeniable proof about some idea, it is still a theory, not a proven fact.

So please don't take everything as if it were an insult, it only makes you look as if you were afraid of getting closer to the truth, and i don't think that's the case.

Kai

[edit on 14-9-2008 by Kaifan]



posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 06:59 PM
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You are confusing the concepts of words with the name that carries no meaning.

The word eternity carries with it a concept that entails having no beginning and no end.

No, you can't just take words that are already rooted in our language to convey specific definitions and begin twisting them to mean whatever you want them to. If you wish to do this then do it on your own time through a creative writing session or something.

While we're on the topic of eternity. No, eternity means no beginning and no end, so it's no where remotely close to a fly living 4 days and us living 80 years. We both have beginning and end either way, it's not about relative perspective, it's about having no beginning and no end: that's the concept of eternity!

I have more than a valid reason to be upset. Where do most of these people go to school at? Where do they get their education? Why don't people understand SIMPLE definitions and why can't they understand SIMPLE plain replies?

The words I am talking about is the word you used and the idea you tried to use to convey it. No eternity is not like a fly living 4 days and a human living 80 years. You can't take concepts and attempt to fancy them to your ideas. The concepts of the words are set in stone.

I no longer have any patience for tolerating non-sense, that's why I appear to be so vice.

[edit on 14-9-2008 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]



posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 07:27 PM
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1- This is my own time, nobody forced you to read or post a reply.
2- I don't care if you get upset about something somebody else said, why should i care?
3- I was not talking about the words, i was talking about a theory of how you could explain the concept those words explain, which is a concept, not words, the concept can be wrong, a concept that can be set in stone, as you said, because what is known is as much as the people who thought about it could figure out, and that doesn't mean there's nothing more, close minded thinking is no good news

- You keep talking about words, then concepts, then words again, then what?


The concepts of the words are set in stone.


No it is not, languages change over time, a country can have different meanings for the same word in different states, i am sorry i don't have 200 years of knowledge and that this troubles you, but i will not close my mind just because someone is upset if i dare to think.



I no longer have any patience for tolerating non-sense, that's why I appear to be so vice.


Well i am sorry for you, if one of this days you stop being all knowledge maybe you can remember not all of us have traveled the same path and not all of us have the same age and maybe also that not all of us know everything as you do, until then, you can avoid this non-sense very easily, i know i would.

I've seen this before, you don't know who i am or why i do this or anything about myself, the same as i don't know anything about you, so this is very simple, you don't need to be here, if there is nothing here that can be of use to you, keep going, don't look back.

Actually i know something about you, you feel bitter because you have found out things are not what you wanted them to be? seems to be the case, but anyway, the purpose of my thread is not to declare the idea as definitive truth, like i said, just a theory, theories can be proven wrong, or fact, or be forgotten, so..

[edit on 14-9-2008 by Kaifan]



posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 07:33 PM
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The concept of eternity is set in stone.

No beginning and no end.

There is a simple word that describes your "theory" Perhaps you should look it up. It's called finite. Then there's another word called infinite.

Finite means to have beginning and end. I'm sure you know what infinite means, and no they are not relativistic and variable terms. They are terms that contrast against one another, they are definite and absolute.

As for your 1-3, it had no connection to this thread. I never said anything about whose time this is.

I am talking to little children here or what? How old are you?



posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 08:13 PM
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Can we forget about words and meanings? just for once, lets keep focused:


No beginning and no end.


If you would try to explain "no beginning" how would you describe it? with words? thoughts? feelings? lets talk about the concept not the words use to describe it by us please.


Just a thought of how it could be achieved.

No, you are not talking to little children, but also i am not 40.

19

I have seen your threads, i like them, i am starting to read them, what i don't like is that just because i said something, good or bad, right or wrong, you get mad at me, how can i know if it is good or not unless i say something i listen to what other people thinks or knows?

I would like it a lot if you could relax and forget what other people thinks or says and focus on expanding the mind instead, and let everyone else walk the path as slow as they need to.

[edit on 14-9-2008 by Kaifan]



posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 08:20 PM
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reply to post by Kaifan
 


A loop, or perfect circle.

No beginning, no end.

Maybe eternal is all things that we know to begin and end, are actually reoccurring events in an endless/eternal loop.



posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 08:25 PM
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Wrong, a circle has a beginning and end to its radius and diameter.

We're talking absolutely no beginning and no end, in time and in space.

To describe no beginning and no end. Here we go.

To have never begun. To never end. To have no outside. To be immeasurable. Nothingness. Absence.

To describe eternity without the words that define its concept is impossible to do.

Usually, what I do for beginners is ask them to imagine the universe as a bubble or a circle. Then I ask them, "what is outside of it?" And they say nothing, I then reply with, "how can nothing exist?" And they say, "it doesn't." Then I say, "then what is outside of the universe?!"... Nothing, there is no outside.
It has no beginning and no end.

[edit on 14-9-2008 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]



posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 08:28 PM
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Originally posted by The_Alarmist2012
reply to post by Kaifan
 


A loop, or perfect circle.

No beginning, no end.

Maybe eternal is all things that we know to begin and end, are actually reoccurring events in an endless/eternal loop.


Yeah that sounds Ok, but the problem remains about how it all started, lets say it is a circle, it must have started to move at some point right? and then it kept going until it reached the starting point thereby forming the circle, but it had a start.

If it was a circle, then we must be inside the circle, not at the circumference. and we don't travel the entire path, but this also brings the question, it everything was circling around, and we are part of that circle, then we also must be following the same movement as the rest of the things that travel along.



Wrong, a circle has a beginning and end to its radius and diameter.


Yeah, agree with your reply.

[edit on 14-9-2008 by Kaifan]

[edit on 14-9-2008 by Kaifan]



posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 08:34 PM
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Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
To describe eternity without the words that define its concept is impossible to do.


But we could try to find a different approach by starting from a different point of view, maybe we can't find a way to define it with what we have because we always start from the same perspective as everyone else.



Usually, what I do for beginners is ask them to imagine the universe as a bubble or a circle. Then I ask them, "what is outside of it?" And they say nothing, I then reply with, "how can nothing exist?" And they say, "it doesn't." Then I say, "then what is outside of the universe?!"... Nothing.
It has no beginning and no end.


It kind of reminded me of "what's under the turtle holding the earth", another turtle?



posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 08:42 PM
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reply to post by Kaifan
 


When it is said that nothing is outside of the universe it means that there is NO outside, because nothing is... nothing.

Now, if we say that nothing does not exist, we have a cancellation effect through the double negative tautology of that statement.

Nothing does NOT exist interprets to: something definitely exists.

Nothing exists interprets to: Immeasurable presence. Since "nothing" would be immeasurable as it is not something that exists, therefore we can not measure it. However, to state that it does exist, means that it must be an immeasurable presence, also known as eternity.

Both above statements are true. They are not to be used to fight one another, yet to be understood for what they say.

Maybe this is too deep for you?

Just ask yourself, what is outside of the universe? And if you say nothing... then how can nothing exist out there... if it is nothing?



posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 08:51 PM
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Maybe this is too deep for you?

Just ask yourself, what is outside of the universe? And if you say nothing... then how can nothing exist out there... if it is nothing?


I understand perfectly what you mean, is not too deep for me, i do get it, but once again, we are using words made to explain a concept, which was explained as much as the people who first defined the concept could understand, it is now obvious where our minds are closed to understanding, we simply can't understand beyond that, but it doesn't mean there is nothing more, the concept of nothing, as it is understood, can be and it is explained by your words, but, lets push the world a step forward, lets explain how it can be, because saying "there is nothing" and stopping there is like a father saying "because i say so", yeah i know, not exactly the same, but you get the idea.

And just for the record, i really liked your explanation, this is what i wanted at first when i started this thread.

Thanks

Kai



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 05:59 AM
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You're very welcome for the demonstration.

I'm now not sure what you are looking for. A definition that goes beyond the words? That is impossible. Eternity can only be explained as a concept, it can only be recognized as existence, as energy. It can't be explained in a mathematical extrapolation anymore than the singular symbols that represent its concept.



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 06:42 AM
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IMO, eternity is something we cannot know, as you said, from our finite point of view, or perception of the world, the universe would be infinite, yet science have claimed it began, therefore, it must end.

We can speculate and theorize, but we can't know. It's easy to say eternity=1, eternity, is encompassing everything, therefore, it is 1, what isn't easy is to say how this one came to be, was it just there? did it come from somewhere else? another 1 maybe? who knows, some think they do, others accept they don't.

EMM



posted on Jun, 19 2009 @ 11:29 AM
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Pearls before swine.



posted on Jun, 19 2009 @ 11:50 AM
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Words...numbers...rebuses...distance...time...language....

Why is the human species so overly obsessed with measuring his existence??

Eternity...interpretive, personal, ponderable, demanding and worthy of debate in any form. Great thread!!

I look forward to the moment where we can just BE and KNOW..without any of this
hogwash.

Peace...



posted on Jun, 19 2009 @ 01:13 PM
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reply to post by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
 


However, if there is something, then that something exists in relation to, nothing, and for the something of the universe, same thing, and it would seems to be contained within, nothing, but how could nothing contain within itself, something? The great mystical teachings teach that something and nothing are two sides of the same coin, but I just can't wrap my mind around that..!


Thinking about it though is I think a good excercise, since it forces the mind and the ego to attempt to come to terms with something it cannot comprehend, bringing a person to the end of thinking, and the end of the self, recognizing the futility in presuming to know and there, entering into the mystery of the nothing/everything of everything/nothing.

Many say the goal of self realization is the ability to be a nothing, and by being a nothing, you become one with everything.

I'm still happy though, that there is something and not nothing, and it must be better than nothing or there wouldn't be anything to begin with, so life is valuable, and therefore purposeful, which would seem to hint at an intentionality in the creation of creation, or a divine will - therefore I say "thank you God, for being, I appreciate it, and I love you too".


[edit on 19-6-2009 by OmegaPoint]



posted on Jun, 19 2009 @ 07:16 PM
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Originally posted by OmegaPoint
reply to post by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
 


Thinking about it though is I think a good excercise, since it forces the mind and the ego to attempt to come to terms with something it cannot comprehend, bringing a person to the end of thinking, and the end of the self, recognizing the futility in presuming to know and there, entering into the mystery of the nothing/everything of everything/nothing.


"Thinking about it..." Have you noticed how few of your peers actually engage in that activity. It is rare enough here to for anyone to put aside their precondition filters and attempt to come to terms with anything outside their existing paradigm or beyond the local ball game on TV.

We cast out our pearls of insight here on ATS and other places, hoping someone with ears to hear and a mind to understand will respond in kind.

Great ponderables like Eternity, as just such castings...
We always like to know who else is standing on the edge of this abyss and looking into that darkness, or lightness of "nothing" and "knowing".
Sometimes shocked by hearing a cogent response.




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