Extraordinary Rendition, Torture and Disappearances

I saw this video as a bonus feature on the DVD version of the movie Rendition.

I recommend the movie as well, but thought that this shorter documentary would be well received here on ATS as a topic of discussion. The most important piece of the movie may be the admission that al-Qaeda does not exist.

Google Video Link

reply to post by redled


Nothing like some blatant stereotyping propoganda to get your point across eh?

When did the "War on Terror" suddenly become the war on pedophiles? And when did child molesters suddenly become exclusive to so called al-Qaeda?

*snip*
By this line of thinking, should the 'war on terror' also be waged on the catholic church?

Mod Edit: removed deleted post in quote.

[edit on 14-9-2008 by GAOTU789]

Originally posted by TaZCoN


By this line of thinking, should the 'war on terror' also be waged on the catholic church?

As a lapsed Catholic......

Seriously, they have forced marraiges from age 5. I will rest my case with that. By the way, the West does not allow marraige without the person's consent. Islamic extremists take away no consent, bar a woman's. That is why they are filth, they do this to 'women' aged five. Maybe the propoganda war makes them look like freedom fighters? Not for their women methinks.

Mod Edit. Removed deleted portion of quote.

[edit on 14-9-2008 by GAOTU789]

reply to post by redled

Seriously, they have forced marraiges from age 5.

Arranged marriages and even honor killings are NOT exclusive to Muslims or the Middle East, so get off the propoganda wheel and start thinking for yourself. I happen to have known an Albanian girl from an Atheist family who was murdered by her father and brother for having sex with a boy from school. And that is just one example to illuminate your ignorance.

You remind me of the people who went around beating up the Sikh cabbies here in NY after 9/11 because they had turbans on. :shk:

Now let's start talking about the topic, shall we?

[edit on 9/14/0808 by jackinthebox]

Originally posted by jackinthebox
reply to post by redled

 

Seriously, they have forced marraiges from age 5.

Arranged marriages and even honor killings are NOT exclusive to Muslims or the Middle East, so get off the propoganda wheel and start thinking for yourself.

Did not say exclusive, just they did go that way. Britain does not.

I happen to have known an Albanian girl from an Atheist family who was murdered by her father and brother for having sex with a boy from school.

Tragic. What do we learn from this?

And that is just one example to illuminate your ignorance.

Don't quite get that.

You remind me of the people who went around beating up the Sikh cabbies here in NY after 9/11 because they had turbans on. :shk:

Now let's start talking about the topic, shall we?

Yeah, got sidetracked. We're all in it up to our eyeballs aren't we?

reply to post by redled


Did you even bother to watch the video? Or did you just wake up and decide to be a troll and come in here to stink up the thread? You are still talking about al-Qaeda as if they even exist, which if you bothered to watch the video, you would see that they do not.

So how are you going to prove to me that an army which does not even exist is made up of child-molesters or pedophiles?

And what are your thoughts on rendition?




[edit on 9/14/0808 by jackinthebox]

Originally posted by jackinthebox
reply to post by redled

 

Did you even bother to watch the video? Or did you just wake up and decide to be a troll and come in here to stink up the thread? You are still talking about al-Qaeda as if they even exist, which if you bothered to watch the video, you would see that they do not.

No, they still exist. I did not come in to troll. I will desist.

So how are you going to prove to me that an army which does not even exist is made up of child-molesters or pedophiles?

We assume different things about existence.

And what are your thoughts on rendition?

Totally anti.

I will add to that. Do not assume that because of one video an entire organisation can be media studied out. There are very cruel people in this world and they are driving the nuclear state of Pakistan to the brink. Many of their regions are out of control to extremists 'Bin' style 'Laden' that have honour deaths, women's rights destroyed along with their education and men's football theatres being made theatres of execution, blood style. That was the old Taleban regime, they are now in the hills, but do not believe for a moment that any of them have learned Buddha's compassion since they blew up all those Persian statues of him. Scum and dirt.

reply to post by redled


There's a big difference between saying that there are people who hate our way of life, and that al-Qaeda actually exists. I am not saying that Islamic fundamentalists/extremists don't exist and are not a threat, but I am saying that the threat has been greatly exaggerated by people who are an even greater threat to American values of freedom and liberty.

EDIT to add: There is no al-Qaeda, there are just people who hate America, our leadership in particular. And I for one am beginning to think that they may not be so far off. I'm pretty pissed off at our leadership myself. When the chips are down, I'm not going to allow Sharia law in my neighborhood or stand for terrorist attacks, but I can't say that these people are without validity now.


[edit on 9/14/0808 by jackinthebox]

Originally posted by jackinthebox
reply to post by redled

 

There's a big difference between saying that there are people who hate our way of life, and that al-Qaeda actually exists. I am not saying that Islamic fundamentalists/extremists don't exist and are not a threat, but I am saying that the threat has been greatly exaggerated by people who are an even greater threat to American values of freedom and liberty.

And exaggerated in my country too. Of course it is a threat to our liberties, it is supposed to be, not the threat bit. Just the destruction of them.

There is no al-Qaeda, there are just people who hate America, our leadership in particular. And I for one am beginning to think that they may not be so far off. I'm pretty pissed off at our leadership myself. When the chips are down, I'm not going to allow Sharia law in my neighborhood or stand for terrorist attacks, but I can't say that these people are without validity now.

If your current President had shown any leadership, you would not be in the awful position of knowing that your beautiful country was actually exacerbating the situation through Iraq et al. Renditions earlier. Tell you a British well known secret. Treat your prisoners well, they may trust you. George W has no respect. I pity you on your thoughts about this, you seem nice, too much foreign policy is not. I'll still kebab anyone who forcibly marries a woman in my area tho......

reply to post by redled


I can't say that I am for arranged marriages, but it's really none of my business.

I happen to know several couples who were married by family arrangement. One couple is from India, but are not Muslim (and don't really like Muslims either.) Another couple is white, American born ane English speaking, though they happen to both come from wealthy families.

Arranged marriages has nothing to with the "war on terror" other than being a propganda tool, that seems to be working it appears.

EDIT to add: I also happen to know an un-married Muslim woman, who was born to Christian parents right here in the States, who chooses to wear a veil when she is out in public.

[edit on 9/14/0808 by jackinthebox]

reply to post by jackinthebox


OK. I think we are cross purpose. I have had to walk past a railway platform (Burley Park - in Leeds) the day after a girl had her knecklace lit (ie been wrapped in tyres, doused in petrol and set alight), there are many positive sides in our Muslim community though, and many are extremely nice people, but those extremists......... They blow us up thinking that they are Islam, when in fact they come from very backwards communities that embrace Islam. They think they are Islam and speak for Britain at the same time, some go back home, and often never want to return there. They realise the bond of understanding and acceptance that is Britain. Some do not accept that.

The reason I think we are cross purpose is that Islam is a few percent of our country, not just a vague set of ideals. I am not criticising the Faith, rather tribal application and it still goes on round here, look at any Refuge hostel.

reply to post by jackinthebox


Great Post. I just watched the whole thing and it is almost like an amnesia, how I have forgotten life prior to 9-11, or what I thought was the reality of our constitution. Perhaps I was ignorant, maybe I was naive, but I never would have believed we would have sunk this low, in the name of protecting democracy and so called "rights". When are we all going to start calling a spade a spade?

ColoradoJens

reply to post by redled


It seems to me you are quite racist, and with good reason, yet wisely leave the door open for exceptions to your own hatred. I am not judging you. Britain seems to have a very serious problem with real scumbags coming in from the Middle East.

However, you have made a giant leap in your assumption that al-Qaeda exists as an organization. Just because there are people of like mind who hate the West, does not mean they are organized and taking orders from Osama bin-Laden.

This is a great thread and Jack in the Box, I agree with most of what you say. Al-Q does exist, unfortunately. Obviously not the massive force the majority of Americans associate with, or even the Al-Q most American KNOW was "created" by CIA/ISI...unfortunately, as is often the case, the Frankenstein is out of the box and we have given a mantra to anyone who hates the US or its allies. Many have taken on the name or a variation of, thus, in this sense, a new and ever changing AL-Q does exist. And there are horrible atrocities carried out in their name, by individuals who have nothing to do with the CIA. Another thread here has some interesting points: I also Fell Victim to the Propaganda

ColoradoJens

Al-Quaida exists only because the CIA needed a name to attach to the entity they invented to be our "enemy". AQ was a construct. A fictional character.
Bin Laden was trained by CIA to lead aggression against the Soviets and rally the Muhajadeen "Freedom Fighters".
When the Soviets left and then, not too long after, communism fell in the USSR and the Germanys re-united, the CIA changed directions and gave Bin-Laden and his "crew" and new assignment. Be the "Enemy" in the next push for the Military Industrial Complex, The Middle East.

The Cold War was over. We needed a new plan. We started the whole Middle East problem many, many years before 9-11, it's just the latest battlefield in the quest for money, oil and power. GW Bush just carried on the fight he was heired from Clinton, who heired it from GW's dad, GHW Bush, who carried on from Ronnie, from Carter, from Ford, from Nixon and the list goes on.

Al-Quaida is just a name. "The Base" in it's original translation. Just a character in a long-running play.

Cuhail

Reading the article about the embassy bombing in Yemen today, I found an example to show what I mean when I say that "al-Qaeda does not exist."

Here is a link to the original article to start...

www.msnbc.msn.com...

The U.S. officials could not verify the claims of responsibility by Islamic Jihad of Yemen. A U.S. State Department official told Reuters the attack "bears all the hallmarks" of al-Qaida.

So here we have the Islamic Jihad of Yemen claiming responsibility, and the State Department turning around and saying "No, it was al-Qaeda." Why? Because al-Qaeda is nothing more than a trigger word to stir up the American populace. It's a propoganda tool.

By the way, Islamic Jihad of Yemen has no connection with the Palestinian Islamic Jihad either. But you might just as well go ahead and lump them in together if you are going to believe that "al-Qaeda" is behind this latest bombing. After all, they're all Muslims with guns and bombs, what's the difference? [/sarcasm]

Now as far as al-Qaeda actually being a CIA organization, that's really not accurate either. CIA has a network of agents and contacts among the Muslims I'm sure, but nothing so coherent to be labeled as a singular construct. Especially not anymore. Was OBL on the list of CIA assets? Sure, at one time. With maybe a few thousand fighters even. But to imagine al-Qaeda, even at its closest to actually being a real organization, as a legitimate singular and coherent fighting force would be like labeling all the drug dealers in the South Bronx as one coherent organization of like mind and objectives. All the drug dealers hate cops, want to make money, and get all their drugs from CIA, but that's where the ties end for the most part. They are far more likely to have stronger loyalties to their family ties, neighborhood ties, and to whatever else motivates their own private agendas.

EDIT to add: Which goes all goes right along with what Cuhail said above. Star to you sir.

[edit on 9/17/0808 by jackinthebox]

JintheB, I couldn't agree more. I actually laughed outloud and had to reread the article. Every attack always "bears the hallmarks" of an AL-Q attack. Amazing. I agree with you again the incarnation that has been foisted upon the gullible US public is not what it seems. This Al-Q is used to fear monger. But again, I say unequivicably (sp?) that idiots, zealots whoever have taken the name and performed atrocities under AL-Q. The problem is there are about 1000 ALQ's around. Who knows who is doing what? Again, excellent post and vid.

ColoradoJens