Extraordinary Rendition, Torture and Disappearances, page 1

I saw this video as a bonus feature on the DVD version of the movie Rendition.

I recommend the movie as well, but thought that this shorter documentary would be well received here on ATS as a topic of discussion. The most important piece of the movie may be the admission that al-Qaeda does not exist.

Google Video Link

reply to post by redled

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Nothing like some blatant stereotyping propoganda to get your point across eh?

When did the "War on Terror" suddenly become the war on pedophiles? And when did child molesters suddenly become exclusive to so called al-Qaeda?

reply to post by redled

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Seriously, they have forced marraiges from age 5.

Arranged marriages and even honor killings are NOT exclusive to Muslims or the Middle East, so get off the propoganda wheel and start thinking for yourself. I happen to have known an Albanian girl from an Atheist family who was murdered by her father and brother for having sex with a boy from school. And that is just one example to illuminate your ignorance.

You remind me of the people who went around beating up the Sikh cabbies here in NY after 9/11 because they had turbans on.

Now let's start talking about the topic, shall we?

[edit on 9/14/0808 by jackinthebox]

Originally posted by jackinthebox
reply to post by redled

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Seriously, they have forced marraiges from age 5.

Arranged marriages and even honor killings are NOT exclusive to Muslims or the Middle East, so get off the propoganda wheel and start thinking for yourself.

Did not say exclusive, just they did go that way. Britain does not.

I happen to have known an Albanian girl from an Atheist family who was murdered by her father and brother for having sex with a boy from school.

Tragic. What do we learn from this?

And that is just one example to illuminate your ignorance.

Don't quite get that.

You remind me of the people who went around beating up the Sikh cabbies here in NY after 9/11 because they had turbans on.

Now let's start talking about the topic, shall we?

Yeah, got sidetracked. We're all in it up to our eyeballs aren't we?

reply to post by redled

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Did you even bother to watch the video? Or did you just wake up and decide to be a troll and come in here to stink up the thread? You are still talking about al-Qaeda as if they even exist, which if you bothered to watch the video, you would see that they do not.

So how are you going to prove to me that an army which does not even exist is made up of child-molesters or pedophiles?

And what are your thoughts on rendition?




[edit on 9/14/0808 by jackinthebox]

Originally posted by jackinthebox
reply to post by redled

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Did you even bother to watch the video? Or did you just wake up and decide to be a troll and come in here to stink up the thread? You are still talking about al-Qaeda as if they even exist, which if you bothered to watch the video, you would see that they do not.

No, they still exist. I did not come in to troll. I will desist.

So how are you going to prove to me that an army which does not even exist is made up of child-molesters or pedophiles?

We assume different things about existence.

And what are your thoughts on rendition?

Totally anti.

reply to post by redled

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There's a big difference between saying that there are people who hate our way of life, and that al-Qaeda actually exists. I am not saying that Islamic fundamentalists/extremists don't exist and are not a threat, but I am saying that the threat has been greatly exaggerated by people who are an even greater threat to American values of freedom and liberty.

EDIT to add: There is no al-Qaeda, there are just people who hate America, our leadership in particular. And I for one am beginning to think that they may not be so far off. I'm pretty pissed off at our leadership myself. When the chips are down, I'm not going to allow Sharia law in my neighborhood or stand for terrorist attacks, but I can't say that these people are without validity now.


[edit on 9/14/0808 by jackinthebox]

Originally posted by jackinthebox
reply to post by redled

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There's a big difference between saying that there are people who hate our way of life, and that al-Qaeda actually exists. I am not saying that Islamic fundamentalists/extremists don't exist and are not a threat, but I am saying that the threat has been greatly exaggerated by people who are an even greater threat to American values of freedom and liberty.

And exaggerated in my country too. Of course it is a threat to our liberties, it is supposed to be, not the threat bit. Just the destruction of them.

There is no al-Qaeda, there are just people who hate America, our leadership in particular. And I for one am beginning to think that they may not be so far off. I'm pretty pissed off at our leadership myself. When the chips are down, I'm not going to allow Sharia law in my neighborhood or stand for terrorist attacks, but I can't say that these people are without validity now.

If your current President had shown any leadership, you would not be in the awful position of knowing that your beautiful country was actually exacerbating the situation through Iraq et al. Renditions earlier. Tell you a British well known secret. Treat your prisoners well, they may trust you. George W has no respect. I pity you on your thoughts about this, you seem nice, too much foreign policy is not. I'll still kebab anyone who forcibly marries a woman in my area tho......

reply to post by redled

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I can't say that I am for arranged marriages, but it's really none of my business.

I happen to know several couples who were married by family arrangement. One couple is from India, but are not Muslim (and don't really like Muslims either.) Another couple is white, American born ane English speaking, though they happen to both come from wealthy families.

Arranged marriages has nothing to with the "war on terror" other than being a propganda tool, that seems to be working it appears.

EDIT to add: I also happen to know an un-married Muslim woman, who was born to Christian parents right here in the States, who chooses to wear a veil when she is out in public.

[edit on 9/14/0808 by jackinthebox]

reply to post by jackinthebox

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OK. I think we are cross purpose. I have had to walk past a railway platform (Burley Park - in Leeds) the day after a girl had her knecklace lit (ie been wrapped in tyres, doused in petrol and set alight), there are many positive sides in our Muslim community though, and many are extremely nice people, but those extremists......... They blow us up thinking that they are Islam, when in fact they come from very backwards communities that embrace Islam. They think they are Islam and speak for Britain at the same time, some go back home, and often never want to return there. They realise the bond of understanding and acceptance that is Britain. Some do not accept that.

The reason I think we are cross purpose is that Islam is a few percent of our country, not just a vague set of ideals. I am not criticising the Faith, rather tribal application and it still goes on round here, look at any Refuge hostel.

reply to post by jackinthebox

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Great Post. I just watched the whole thing and it is almost like an amnesia, how I have forgotten life prior to 9-11, or what I thought was the reality of our constitution. Perhaps I was ignorant, maybe I was naive, but I never would have believed we would have sunk this low, in the name of protecting democracy and so called "rights". When are we all going to start calling a spade a spade?

ColoradoJens

reply to post by redled

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It seems to me you are quite racist, and with good reason, yet wisely leave the door open for exceptions to your own hatred. I am not judging you. Britain seems to have a very serious problem with real scumbags coming in from the Middle East.

However, you have made a giant leap in your assumption that al-Qaeda exists as an organization. Just because there are people of like mind who hate the West, does not mean they are organized and taking orders from Osama bin-Laden.

Reading the article about the embassy bombing in Yemen today, I found an example to show what I mean when I say that "al-Qaeda does not exist."

Here is a link to the original article to start...

www.msnbc.msn.com...

The U.S. officials could not verify the claims of responsibility by Islamic Jihad of Yemen. A U.S. State Department official told Reuters the attack "bears all the hallmarks" of al-Qaida.

So here we have the Islamic Jihad of Yemen claiming responsibility, and the State Department turning around and saying "No, it was al-Qaeda." Why? Because al-Qaeda is nothing more than a trigger word to stir up the American populace. It's a propoganda tool.

By the way, Islamic Jihad of Yemen has no connection with the Palestinian Islamic Jihad either. But you might just as well go ahead and lump them in together if you are going to believe that "al-Qaeda" is behind this latest bombing. After all, they're all Muslims with guns and bombs, what's the difference? [/sarcasm]

Now as far as al-Qaeda actually being a CIA organization, that's really not accurate either. CIA has a network of agents and contacts among the Muslims I'm sure, but nothing so coherent to be labeled as a singular construct. Especially not anymore. Was OBL on the list of CIA assets? Sure, at one time. With maybe a few thousand fighters even. But to imagine al-Qaeda, even at its closest to actually being a real organization, as a legitimate singular and coherent fighting force would be like labeling all the drug dealers in the South Bronx as one coherent organization of like mind and objectives. All the drug dealers hate cops, want to make money, and get all their drugs from CIA, but that's where the ties end for the most part. They are far more likely to have stronger loyalties to their family ties, neighborhood ties, and to whatever else motivates their own private agendas.

EDIT to add: Which goes all goes right along with what Cuhail said above. Star to you sir.

[edit on 9/17/0808 by jackinthebox]

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