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Going veggie shrinks the brain

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posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 04:38 PM
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Going veggie shrinks the brain


www.news.com.au

SCIENTISTS have discovered that going veggie could be bad for your brain - with those on a meat-free diet six times more likely to suffer brain shrinkage.

Vegans and vegetarians — such as Heather Mills — are the most likely to be deficient because the best sources of the vitamin are meat, particularly liver, milk and fish.

Vitamin B12 deficiency can also cause anaemia and inflammation of the nervous system.

Yeast extracts are one of the few vegetarian foods which provide good levels of the vitamin.

The link was discovered by Oxford University scientists who used memory tests, physical checks and brain scans to examine 107 people between the ages of 61 and 87.
(visit the link for the full news article)


Related News Links:
timesofindia.indiatimes.com
www.thesun.co.uk




posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 04:38 PM
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Wow, very interesting.

Vegetarians and/or Vegans have often condemned omnivores on a moral basis for meat-eating but there seems to be a basic necessity involved in the process, and it is driven by a human (biological) need for it.

I've always played the middle ground with my meals, not eating too much red meat and primarily sticking to fish, chicken, and vegetables but it appears meat should not be ruled out of our diet entirely or there is a price to pay.

Thoughts?

- Lee

www.news.com.au
(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 14-9-2008 by lee anoma]



posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 04:51 PM
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Thoughts? Complete rubbish, in my humble vegan opinion....statistics and "tests" will "prove" anything you want them too, and I'm sure there are enough clever veggies out there to disprove this tinpot theory....


The test group was in the age range where we could reasonably expect memory problems and brain shrinkage anyway, and was conducted on only 107 people, so my guess is that it proves nothing.....when they test 107 thousand people between the ages of 30 and 90, I might take note, but in such a small sample, there is no proof, only supposition and guesswork...biased guesswork at that. There could be many other reasons for the symptoms, and I notice that they don't say how many people in the study were affected. I think it's reasonable to expect that there wouldn't be as many vegetarians in this age group compared to a younger group, simply due to cultural influences, so this shrinks the results even further.


There are many sources of the vitamins involved and they don't always have to come from meat and dairy.


Cait



posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 04:56 PM
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I'm still all for the "fake" meat they're working on, the artificial growth of meat that can be grown on a machine. No brain, no internal organs, just meat.
Basically eating that is no different from eating a plant. You haven't killed an animal, any more than eating a plant is considered killing animals.

What's going on with that anyways?

Anyhow, that would kill all the disputes between meat eaters and non meat eaters, because there simply isn't a moral issue to tackle anymore.

The only basis for the decision would then be based purely on what you find tasty.

[edit on 14-9-2008 by johnsky]



posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 05:05 PM
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They really don't give much info to make any decision. Didn't even show the study that determined this. Much easier to critique a finding when you can review the study...

Can't really say much, but if its a vitamin thing...just take a multivitamin. Otherwise, they've had studies showing vegitarians have a lower risk for heart disease than the general population so maybe its a wash.

The indiatimes link says this,
"Beer does less damage than wine according to a study in Alcohol and Alcoholism.

Researchers found that the hippocampus-the part of the brain that stores memories - was 10% smaller in beer drinkers than those who stuck to wine."

Am I missing something? lol


[edit on 14-9-2008 by ghaleon12]



posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 05:05 PM
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Actually, here's a link to a study which says the complete opposite, with findings collated over 20 years with 8000 test subjects. There is a significant points difference in intelligence with vegetarians having higher IQ scores by 5 points. It also suggests that more intelligent children are more likely to become vegetarian later in life.


www.thisislondon.co.uk...




www.independent.co.uk...



Cait



[edit on 14-9-2008 by caitlinfae]



posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 05:28 PM
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Like with anything else. Moderation is key. I pretty much survive on pasta. But sometimes you have to let the big dog eat.



posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 05:35 PM
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reply to post by jpm1602
 


You don't *have* to let the big dog eat....you choose to. And we are not dogs, we are humans with greater intelligence, and some of us choose not to eat meat at all. Actually, if you overdo the pasta, like I used to, there is a good chance that your body will call time on that too, and you will end up gluten intolerant, which is horrible, trust me. Please be careful...and eat more lentils!


Anyway, apologies for drifting ever so slightly off topic...this is about intelligence, not just about vegetarianism.

Cait



posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 05:51 PM
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Sorry, I had a laugh when I read the headline first....


I think all results depend on the client....Studies for a veggie mag will say...meat makes ya crazy...studies for a butcher mag will say...carrots are dangerous and make you orange....

Keep it moderate and use your brain...permanent reflecting makes a brain...not a steak or a pea.



posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 05:57 PM
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reply to post by caitlinfae
 


I am one to believe that the studies are just that, studies and not fact. I am strictly a meat eater mostly. I rarely eat anything that doesn't have meat, and if I do, its usually like pizza or something with eggs or fish.

I never eat salads, I hate veggies, and I love my milk lol. I do eat fish though, and fish has next to EVERY vitamin your body needs except for about 3-4. I think that it would make sense that being a meat eater plays a role with intelligence. If you are a meat eater, you must be able to hunt. Therefore you need to be smarter than your prey.



posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 05:58 PM
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There seem to be a few "small brainers" defending their vegan habits. I guess their brains are just too small to comprehend the study.

It's sad really. Maybe we can communicate with them if we keep it simple:

STUDY SAY IF NO EAT MEAT, BRAIN BECOME SMALL!

BRAIN SMALL IF NO EAT MEAT.

MEAT FOR HEALTHY BRAIN.

I know it's a shot in the dark, but we have to tell them since they are obviously past the point of comprehension.



posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 06:00 PM
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well for one thing it is a proven fact that no matter the size of your brain, larger or smaller, it does not mean how smart you really are.



posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 06:23 PM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

Consider a few facts:

1. Studies involving diet are notoriously hard to do, because people either under-report what they ate, or mis-report it, or even fail to follow their own stated regimes. No other type of study is as hard to do. Even when they lock people up in isolation wards, and monitor their eating and check guests for food smuggling and use video monitors, patients cheat. Anorexic patients manage to hide food that you think they're eating, despite the staff monitoring their eating.

2. What is a vegetarian diet? For some people it's carte blanche to eat a bunch of junk. Some Vegetarians eat eggs, some drink milk. So one would need to know how they picked people for the study.

3. Other things complicate this kind of study including smoking and drinking alcohol. Did they control for this? How do they know there weren't a few secret alcoholics; enough to bias the results?

4. Some effects of a vegetarian diet might be those who don't get enough protein. Protein is not just derived from meat. Being vegetarian does not relieve you from the need to get adequate protein, in fact, because it's harder, vegetarians have to be more vigilant.

5. The study size is too small and was too short.

Having said that, it's probably a good idea to add additional vitamin sources, such as yeast and additional protein and to cut down on sugar and corn syrup and junk food, and to research about and consider adding protective foods such as oatmeal, bioflavinoids, lycopenes, isothyiocyanates (broccoli and cruciferous vegetables), fish oil with Omegas, and extra virgin olive oil.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 06:29 PM
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People always say they don't like vegetarians because vegetarians are very insistent, always trying to convince other people to give up meat, and having a "holier than thou" attitude.

Well, as a vegetarian who has never bothered other people trying to convince them of anything, i have to say i find this very annoying, just like all the other "attacks" a vegetarian has to put up with daily.

I mean don't get me wrong, it was FUN the first 500 times somebody asked me where i get my vitamins from, but after a while it started to get boring and even annoying. People who ask that question don't even know what that vitamin that they're reffering to is.

And now this, my brain will shrink. I don't understand why the article is reffering both to vegetarians and vegans, since milk products are a good source of b12, which means that only vegans are likely to develop a b12 deficiency.

Last, just as a fun fact (i'm not comparing myself or anybody else to Einstein), Einstein's brain weighed less than the average adult brain

Edit to add: but then again Einstein might have been a vegetarian, which would explain the small brain


[edit on 14-9-2008 by Wallachian]



posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 06:35 PM
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True of false ?
I will continue to eat meat.
I'm a meat lover. As young, I Mom always said "Eat more meat"

I tried, once, to eat no meat at all, I got so sick, and with no energy.
Raw meat taste better BTW, except for chicken



posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 06:35 PM
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Originally posted by caitlinfae
Thoughts? Complete rubbish, in my humble vegan opinion....statistics and "tests" will "prove" anything you want them too, and I'm sure there are enough clever veggies out there to disprove this tinpot theory....


Brain shrinkage doesn't necessarily equate to lack of or the loss of intelligence or the capacity for; it simply poses a threat for brain damage in the future and leaves you more susceptible to a number of complications dealing with the brain and other areas of the body. Smoking cigarettes harms the lungs and leaves one susceptible to various ailments, these effects aren't always immediate.

Being that you're a vegan, its natural for you to dismiss this article as it applies to you. I don't think its reasonable to completely dismiss it simply because it applies to you and there being "enough clever vegans out there to disprove this tinpot theory". This isn't exclusively an issue of intelligence, its about brain health. Quite frankly, this "tinpot theory" makes alot of sense.



The test group was in the age range where we could reasonably expect memory problems and brain shrinkage anyway, and was conducted on only 107 people, so my guess is that it proves nothing.....


I think you have an inaccurate understanding in the concept of study, and this study in particular aswell.

When researchers conduct tests, the findings aren't to be viewed as "Black & White"/Concrete, they simply provide insight and possible answers all the while expanding implications.

Them referencing the study done previously on the elderly acts as means to support the notion that the deficiency in B12 can result in negative outcomes, in the long run. If they were to include elders in the study, it would confound the experiment. Many will interpret it as: "If you're vegan, you're an idiot", when thats not whats being conveyed.

Its basically like this...

In a seperate study, it was found that people with B12 deficiency were more likely to have issues with memory; as they grew older (in the long run). A link is then made with vegetarianism as its practitioners often lack B12 in their diet, thus giving birth to the story.

[edit on 14-9-2008 by ChronMan]



posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 06:36 PM
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Originally posted by nahsik
well for one thing it is a proven fact that no matter the size of your brain, larger or smaller, it does not mean how smart you really are.


That sounds like a lie coming from a small brainer, because there is a correlation between brain size and intelligence.

Perhaps you just didn't comprehend what you were reading. I forgive you, small brainer.




posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 06:46 PM
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reply to post by logician magician
 


While the relation between brain size and intelligence might be controversial, name calling and insults in a otherwise civil debate are clearly not a sign of intelligence.



posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 06:53 PM
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Tell Leonardo DaVinci that vegetarianism makes your brain smaller.

Besides, the article talks about B-12 as a basis for needing animal products. You can get that through drinking soy milk that is fortified (as milk is). The study is ridiculous.



posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 07:06 PM
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Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor
Tell Leonardo DaVinci that vegetarianism makes your brain smaller.


Brain shrin... forget it.


Besides, the article talks about B-12 as a basis for needing animal products. You can get that through drinking soy milk that is fortified (as milk is). The study is ridiculous.


Vegan - a vegetarian who omits all animal products from the diet (www.dictionary.com).

Milk = Animal product.

Therefore, Vegan = B12 deficient.

Its also no secret that vegetarians aswell also have a hard time including or lack B12 in their diets

[edit on 14-9-2008 by ChronMan]



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