Sharia courts operating in Britain

Theodore Roosevelt was a wise man. All of us could learn a lesson if open to common sense.

Theodore Roosevelt on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN

Are we "SLOW LEARNERS" or what?

Theodore Roosevelt on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN

"In the first place we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the man's becoming in very fact an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag, which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

January 3, 1919

"Americanization" was a favorite theme of Roosevelt's during his later years, when he railed repeatedly against "hyphenated Americans" and the prospect of a nation "brought to ruins" by a "tangle of squabbling nationalities."

He advocated the compulsory learning of English by every naturalized citizen. "Every immigrant who comes here should be required within five years to learn English or to leave the country," he said in a statement to the Kansas City Star in 1918. "English should be the only language taught or used in the public schools."

He also insisted, on more than one occasion, that America has no room for what he called "fifty-fifty allegiance." In a speech made in 1917 he said, "It is our boast that we admit the immigrant to full fellowship and equality with the native-born. In return we demand that he shall share our undivided allegiance to the one flag which floats over all of us."

From the UK 2001 census:

The population of the UK as of 2001 was 58.8 million

There are 37.3 million people in England and Wales who state their religion as Christian (59%)

In England, 3.1 per cent (1.7 million) of the population state their religion as Muslim (0.7 per cent in Wales), making this the most common religion after Christianity.

For other religions, 1.1 per cent in England and 0.2 per cent in Wales are Hindu, 0.7 per cent in England and 0.1 per cent in Wales are Sikh, 0.5 per cent in England and 0.1 per cent in Wales are Jewish and 0.3 per cent in England and 0.2 per cent in Wales are Buddhist.

In England and Wales 7.7 million people state they have no religion (14.6 per cent in England and 18.5 per cent in Wales).

At the time the Census was carried out, there was an internet campaign that encouraged people to answer the religion question "Jedi Knight". The number of people who stated Jedi was 390,000 (0.7 per cent of the population).

The religion question was voluntary, and 4,011,000 people chose not answer it (7.7 per cent).

Apparently these sharia courts will deal with regular legal issues such as disputes over money, and things such as divorces and child custody. Violent crimes will still be handled by the met and ruled by the courts, our courts.

Having said that, this is the start of the slippery slope.

Everyone should watch the movie Children of men, it's an interesting and I believe accurate assumption about what Britain will be like in the next 20 years or so.

reply to post by Sonya610


You have hit the nail right on the head. So very true.

What does our old friend Aristotle have to say on matters like this?

"Tolerance and Apathy are the last virtues of a dying society"

This comes to show you how long Western civilization in general has if they continue this policy of "cultural diversity."

It seems to me, the problem here is mostly with some Christians not wanting Islam to grow within their society, because everytime I see an article being posted here about Sharia Law, you can guess a member of which faith is doing the posting.

The courts here are only used for Islamic civil procedures, just as other faiths have been using their own courts for marriages, divorce, and family disputes.

What I see is the same people who complain that Muslims aren't integrating into their society are the same ones who are supporting their goverment entering the country of another to force their beliefs on them (e.x. converting Iraq to a "Democracy").

If the issue here was about conformity and integration, then who has a right to complain about what other countries do to their citizens?

Right-wing I am not, read my signature if that needs to be clarified before you read and comment on my comment:

According to the Islamic faith, an infidel is any person (will probably include any sentient entity) whom is not Islamic. An infidel should be treated as a "thing" that is not Muslim. infidels must be converted to Islam else they must be killed.

I kid you not. Do some research. An Infidel has the same status in Islam as does a pig.

It can never be denied that Islam has the intention of being the only way of life for all humans (and sentient entities capable of understanding Islam). It is in the belief system that infidels must be exterminated either by conversion else death. Islam must be the way of life for the rulers of this planet and wider. I ask any Muslim whom truthfully believes the Koran says otherwise to state that otherwise here.

The employment of Sharia law alongside British law is not the same as employing the laws of other faiths alongside British law. Sharia law is not intended to work with others legal systems. It is intent to be the only legal system. It doesn't provide room for any other type of law.

With regard to Islam in our world, one of two results will happen as permitted by Islam:

1, Assuming we do not annihilate ourselves, at some stage, eventually all humans will be Muslim; or

2, Muslims will be the new "Jews"of the world i.e there will be another "Holocaust" caused by protestation against Islamic infiltration of Western Democracy.

I would like to see that we can all live peacefully, alongside each other, without any of us allowing any religious, political, philosophical or other ideology coming between the civility we Humans are supposed to be capable to use to cement us together. But all I do see are a few people doing their best to deprive many the chance to live their lives to natural ends; and all because they don't like others to live differently to themselves. I see this from both the Islamic and non-Islamic worlds.

It will be very sad if we never learn from history that the mixing of religion, politics and law into one tidy, neat package never unites society or brings civility and justice. Never has, never will. Such a unity has always forced tyranny onto populations. Always has, always will.

Do you know where Sharia law has its roots? Look here. I'm sure you will see similarities.

If it doesn't cost the rest of us Brits anything, let them carry on. If these courts are only ruling on personal disputes and monetary matters, then why not.

I agree that this may be just the beginning of a wider integration of cultures which will result in the death of our own, but it is our own fault as a nation. I can only speak for the English, but we celebrate St Patricks day more than our own St George. The government tell us not to erect flags in case we offend anyone. Politically correctness has gotten ridiculous and the people won't stand up.

The problem may be that Great Britain was already comprised of different nations and cultures and has changed so many times over the centuries that our apathy for impositions has grown to a point where now we just don't care.

reply to post by Sendran


What a load of trollop, Its people like you who sit back and say, "Yeah..whatever." and let these changes happen.

Why don't people stand up and say they dislike whats happening in this country? That they are horrified by what it'll become?
I'll tell you why, because the second they do, hordes will heckle them.
"Racist!", "Bigot!", "Nazi!" They'll cry, for the last 60 years. People in Britain have been demonised for caring about 'their own' to a point where a white man working man has no platform to stand on, because if he does. He could loose his job, and then his house. Subject to racial abuse which is okay because hes a Nazi anyway.

I read about a group of teenagers who burn't down a old Church in Lancaster because it had been bought by a Islamic group with the intent to convert it to a Mosque. Of course, headlines rang "RACIST TEENAGERS BURN DOWN MOSQUE!".

If we don't do this diplomaticly.. and soon... Enoch won't be far wrong.

reply to post by Vowles


I am not ambivalent, I vote whenever I can and take an active interest in the mechanics of my country, so it is not "people like me." I made a statement based on the apathy that exists within the UK and the population as a whole.

The rest of my post stated an opinion on why these things were occurring, not my personal standpoint.

Personally I believe that people should respect anyone's beliefs and cultures. When taking residence in a foreign country, one should respect and abide by the laws and culture of the native people, whilst still remaining free to practice any personal ones. I do not welcome these Sharia Courts, but I do not think they imply any permanent change to the British legal system. I think the people who come to our country should respect and integrate with our way of life, and not create sub-communities within our own. There are plenty of countries in the world to go to.

Don't be so quick to judge.

Oh and about the teenagers, be honest, they probably are racist and they still burnt down the church.

[edit on 14/9/2008 by Sendran]

[edit on 14/9/2008 by Sendran]

reply to post by Kurokage


Oh and i suppose we fill forget the period of colinisation, when Europe destoryed essentially the Muslim society. Muslim exports were heavily taxed, European ones were imported cheaply. The Europeans employed the good old divide and conquer. Muslims charaties, schools and basically their whole social structure was torn down and replaced with a European model. Europe destoryed the Muslims world economically, culturally, Western thought was imposed upon Muslims, politically. And yet we whinge when something such as this, that doesnt even effect your life is institued.

reply to post by drevill


Isn't that a little bit racist, I mean if it can operate alongside the Westminsiter system then what is the issue. It is not like Muslims are going to take over the world in the next couple of years. And its not sexist like Chrisitanity

I totally agree with the OP and am alarmed at this news.

I was born a Muslim but am lapsed (probably after my first devon and tomato sauce sandwich in primary school!).

We came to Australia in the 70's for a better life than we would have had in Malaysia and as is right, we embraced the culture of Australia and were absorbed by it.

My father is still a practicing Muslim and I respect him for that. But my sisters and I have long since stopped any religious observance.

What gets me is that you immigrate to another country for a better life. You do what the italians and asians (south east) have done for generations. Keep a bit of your homeland with you but embrace your new country and it's culture.

You don't immigrate for a better life then stay in the new country and whinge and whine about how the women dress and how you will never mix with the locals and isolate yourself in your minority group. Or how local law is wrong and bad for you and try and change it to what your old country was like. If you don't like it, go back home or somewhere else that is more what you're used to.

I often imagine what it would be like if my family would've stayed in Malaysia: my sisters would we wearing head coverings and be in arranged marriages. I would probably be working for a low salary. My mum wouldn't never be seen as being equal to my dad.

As it is, my family now leads full lives in Canberra and Melbourne and I ABSOLUTELY LOVE AUSTRALIA! Freedom of speech, rule by law, freedom of expression.

We thankfully take our lead from the Brits in regards to laws and customs. But sometimes I think immigrants move to Britain with the idea of staunchly holding on to their old lives and seeing life and culture in Britain as inferior. Of course the money isn't inferior, right??

I just don't think it's right to move to another country and not be satisfied with laws that are centuries old and therefore try and change it all to your liking. And I don't think it's right that the government is kowtowing to this.

Sorry about the rambling rant!

reply to post by drevill


You do realise Sharia courts have been operating in the UK for decades, right? Only that now they are officially sanctioned, as in the judges presiding are now officially vetted. These courts are completely optional, and only if the parties involved elect for a Sharia court to hear their dispute. This has NOTHING to do with forcing Sharia on everyone, only allowing those wishing to live under Sharia to do so. It's called TOLERANCE.

Also:

Muslim MPs: Mohammad Sarwar (elected 1997), Shahid Malik (elected 2005)
Muslim Lords: Henry Stanley, 3rd Baron Stanley of Alderley (1869), Nazir Ahmed, Baron Ahmed (introduced 1998), Haleh Afshar, Baroness Afshar (introduced in 2007)

Of course I doubt any of this will stop your Christian knickers getting in a knot, but it's worth a try. Repeat after me: DENY IGNORANCE.

[edit on 15/9/08 by dave420]

Originally posted by dave420
reply to post by drevill

 

You do realise Sharia courts have been operating in the UK for decades, right? Only that now they are officially sanctioned, as in the judges presiding are now officially vetted. These courts are completely optional, and only if the parties involved elect for a Sharia court to hear their dispute. This has NOTHING to do with forcing Sharia on everyone, only allowing those wishing to live under Sharia to do so. It's called TOLERANCE.

Also:

Muslim MPs: Mohammad Sarwar (elected 1997), Shahid Malik (elected 2005)
Muslim Lords: Henry Stanley, 3rd Baron Stanley of Alderley (1869), Nazir Ahmed, Baron Ahmed (introduced 1998), Haleh Afshar, Baroness Afshar (introduced in 2007)

Of course I doubt any of this will stop your Christian knickers getting in a knot, but it's worth a try. Repeat after me: DENY IGNORANCE.

[edit on 15/9/08 by dave420]

Hi Dave

I don't suppose you happen to have a handy list of the number of white Chrisitians working in high positions in the Saudi Arabian government do you?

For comparison purposes, obviously.

Originally posted by C.C.Benjamin

Originally posted by dave420
reply to post by drevill

 

You do realise Sharia courts have been operating in the UK for decades, right? Only that now they are officially sanctioned, as in the judges presiding are now officially vetted. These courts are completely optional, and only if the parties involved elect for a Sharia court to hear their dispute. This has NOTHING to do with forcing Sharia on everyone, only allowing those wishing to live under Sharia to do so. It's called TOLERANCE.

Also:

Muslim MPs: Mohammad Sarwar (elected 1997), Shahid Malik (elected 2005)
Muslim Lords: Henry Stanley, 3rd Baron Stanley of Alderley (1869), Nazir Ahmed, Baron Ahmed (introduced 1998), Haleh Afshar, Baroness Afshar (introduced in 2007)

Of course I doubt any of this will stop your Christian knickers getting in a knot, but it's worth a try. Repeat after me: DENY IGNORANCE.

[edit on 15/9/08 by dave420]

Hi Dave

I don't suppose you happen to have a handy list of the number of white Chrisitians working in high positions in the Saudi Arabian government do you?

For comparison purposes, obviously.

Talk about missing the point big time! We are tolerant they are not...FULL STOP.

This thread shows the paranoid hatred of Muslims doesn't it. Those jumping up and down have absolutely no idea whatsoever about the truth of the situation. A couple of posts here quite calmly told you the truth but no let's go and get all agitated and behave in a totally ignorant manner.

DENY IGNORANCE.

This is obviously not directed at moderate muslims but...

It's hard to respect someone when they come to your country and don't respect you... or your ways. The irony is that they often leave their own countries over the brutality and lack of human rights there - so it's hard to fathom why they would want to then create the exact turmoil in someone else's country.. that is unless they're lying about why they immigrated in the first place.

If we didn't tow the line in their countries.. chances are you'll wind up dead very quickly. Can you imagine the outcry if we conducted ourselves in the same manner here?

If I remember correctly, they wanted to create an Islamic State in Birmingham - They have also tried tried the same crap throughout Russia, Africa and now even China. At least China knows how to deal with them. Kudo's China!

If you come to a country with the intent/agenda to divide it's population and undermine it's laws and morals, then you should be deported or treated as an enemy of the state... SIMPLE!

IRM



[edit on 15/9/08 by InfaRedMan]

reply to post by drevill


Heh.

Wonder what the British government will do when they start putting teenage girls to death for having sex out of wedlock.

Originally posted by malcr
Talk about missing the point big time! We are tolerant they are not...FULL STOP.

No, you're missing the point! Muslims in Britain don't thank their hosts for being among the most tolerant, welcoming, generous nations on Earth, they demand it. We've given them an inch and now they expect a mile!

And yes, it is our leaders who are to blame. Immigrants to Britain are simply opportunists and I can't blame them for bettering their prospects. It's the government I'm angry at for handing out the family silver.