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Seperation of church and state? Why do presidents swear an oath on the Bible?

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posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 09:25 AM
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We have been bombarded with secular societies who's intention is to go against God.

The removal of the Ten Commandments from courtrooms and public buildings is a prime example of this.

Yet we hear nothing of from the secular societies about having "In God We Trust" on our money, or the swearing in of a president using a bible and speaking the words "so help me God"

Why is there no outrage from the secular society?

Because they know this is a mockery of God. Just as the Freemasons mock the bible and God with their ceremonies, the Freemason borne secular society is mocking God at every possible chance.



The Presidential oath of office is described in Article II, section 1 of the Constitution:

Before he enter on the Execution of his Office, he shall take the following Oath or Affirmation:--"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

Nothing in this section requires that the oath of office be taken on the Bible. Neither do the words "so help me God" appear in the oath. While Presidents often include this phrase in their inauguration ceremonies, the words are customary; they are not required by the Constitution and have no legal significance.

candst.tripod.com...

Yet the bible is very specific about swearing oaths.



God, through the apostle James, clearly states that Christians must not swear by an oath: “But above all things, my brethren, swear not…but let your yes be your yes; and your no, no; lest you fall into condemnation” (Jms. 5:12).

Christ also said, in Matthew 5:34-37, “I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God’s throne; nor by the earth, for it is His footstool: nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair white or black. But let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No,’ ‘No.’ For whatever is more than these is from the evil one” (Revised Authorized Version).

www.thercg.org...

The act of putting ones hand on the bible and swearing an oath is a complete mockery of God, well known to those whose intention it is to move mankind away from God, and into materialistic slavery that can be controlled by the elitists.

Don't let them fool you. In these latter days, the undercurrent of anti-God isms is powerful indeed.

A promise is a promise, but a sworn oath is a soul damning act, a pledge of allegiance to Ba'al, and in these crucial latter days, everything counts.

PS. The new format for ATS is horrible. What are they thinking?


[edit on 14-9-2008 by Manasseh]




posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 09:39 AM
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The United States was founded on Christianity, and has had the oath and pledge in place for over a centery. You act like there has been a sudden change in the system causing a need for alarms to go off, but there is no need.

You wonder why no other group has attacked the way it is done. That's because there not stupid enough to attack america at it's core and risk being destroyed by the public who love there country. The only reason someone complains about this stuff is that there is too much freedoms and not enough to do.



posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 09:41 AM
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Ever since the Puritan's settled in New England, God and Country have been in the same boat. Staunch reformers of the Church of England, they have had a profound effect on American Society since.

They even went so far to banish Roger Williams, known as the first person who called out for separation of Church and State.

I do not think it is a mockery of God but of this:

That when you swear upon yourself for the responsibility of millions, it would be appropriate to say that you are putting faith in someone high than you. It is also customary of the Puritans to do something like that. When our country was formed, religion was a major factor. If you didn't go to church and didn't believe in God, you were shun.

Its a good thing though I think, it has even gone as far as people changing it to swear on the Koran, such as the representive from Minnesota.



posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 09:44 AM
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One word...... WHITEWASH! Blessing evil is a powerful mind control tool. Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. The Catholics attempted to convince the North Koreans that they really needed to allow "freedom of religion". They actually argued that it was a powerful tool in maintaining order. Don't think Kim Jong Il bought their spiel... but hey it was worth a try. Look how effective a little religion is on the USA public. I write this as a "Christian".



posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 10:08 AM
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reply to post by truth_seeker3
 




That when you swear upon yourself for the responsibility of millions, it would be appropriate to say that you are putting faith in someone high than you. It is also customary of the Puritans to do something like that. When our country was formed, religion was a major factor. If you didn't go to church and didn't believe in God, you were shun.


Agreed that if one has responsibility of million, one should have faith in God, not just someone of higher power. God is specific in the bible, that there should be no gods before him. So swearing on the bible, and then believing in paganism is a for sure trip to seperation from God.

Putting belief in God and going to church in the same sentence is truly a dangerous statement. What church did Jesus attend. Wasn't it the Puritans who burned people at the stake.

Here is what God says about the leaders of the church.



Jeremiah 23:1 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)

Jeremiah 23

1Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the LORD.

www.biblegateway.com...



posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 10:52 AM
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This is off topic but I find it funny that JC said thatwe cant change our hair from black to white, but we now know that you can. It involves the same mental processes that greyness results from stress and/or shock.


But anyway, I was under the impression that America was the first secular nation, insofar as the founding fathers (deists) gave americans the freedom of religion knowing that for freedom of religion, there needed to be freedom from religion.


In God We Trust is the official national motto of the United States and the U.S. state of Florida. The motto first appeared on a United States coin in 1864, but In God We Trust did not become the official U.S. national motto until after the passage of an Act of Congress in 1956

wiki

[edit on 9/14/2008 by Good Wolf]



posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 11:03 AM
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reply to post by Good Wolf
 


I had a dream a couple of nights ago, where I was surrounded by angry church officials, and I concentrated on removing them, and they were put into my mind, literally! I felt them there, and when I felt I they had learned not to mess with me, I could put them back.

It was very bizarre. In the same dream, I touched a woman in a wheelchair and healed her, much to the surprise of the church officials.

So, I asked the bible what this was about.

I take a closed bible with my eyes closed, and ask it my question, open it, and point to the page. My finger landed on this passage.



Jeremiah 23;

28The prophet that hath a dream, let him tell a dream; and he that hath my word, let him speak my word faithfully. What is the chaff to the wheat? saith the LORD.

www.biblegateway.com...

So I am telling you about my dream.



posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 11:41 AM
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And.... That means what to me and id relevant how?



posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 11:42 AM
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And.... That means what to me and is relevant how?







Whoops. I some how double posted. Im not even sure how. Sorry.

[edit on 9/14/2008 by Good Wolf]



posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 11:43 AM
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Hello
because it represents a symbolic "gesture" that they would never lie and protect you, by doing their job properly.

LOL
Peace people
Kirky

[edit on 14-9-2008 by kirky]

PS apart from that it means nothing


[edit on 14-9-2008 by kirky]



posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 11:53 AM
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It's a good thing Bush took it seriously




The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quanties of uranimum from Africa.

www.bushlies.net...



posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 12:06 PM
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Originally posted by Manasseh
reply to post by Good Wolf
 


I had a dream a couple of nights ago, where I was surrounded by angry church officials, and I concentrated on removing them, and they were put into my mind, literally! I felt them there, and when I felt I they had learned not to mess with me, I could put them back.

It was very bizarre. In the same dream, I touched a woman in a wheelchair and healed her, much to the surprise of the church officials.

So, I asked the bible what this was about.

I take a closed bible with my eyes closed, and ask it my question, open it, and point to the page. My finger landed on this passage.



Jeremiah 23;

28The prophet that hath a dream, let him tell a dream; and he that hath my word, let him speak my word faithfully. What is the chaff to the wheat? saith the LORD.

www.biblegateway.com...

So I am telling you about my dream.



That’s funny…weird man.. you mention church officials. I have one like that also, but my twist is…….

Where I’m back in my army soldier days, but these “church officials” or guys that are high up in the ways of the cloth/biblical.. were ordering me about, yea me an me old pals, and they were laughing at me saying common Kirky “its gonna be a walk in the park”, then they are ordering us onto this strange saucer UFO, dark green in colour, the one with bottom spinning fast and the top spinning slowly,with like a spinning strobe light in between, sort of like just built for 10 or 12 guys..then we’re dropped off at this massive 2 moon, at pitch black night planet/target/objective/mission on a cool shoreline, yea..defo sand in your boots thingy..and suddenly I’m filled with horrible fear/dread, like I know am on a death mission…and its toooo l8 to get out of it…..

then I usually wake up..sorry for the ramble but that’s the way it is, been recurring off an on since I got out of army/infantry in 92! Respect your post.

Peace
Kirky

PS. I have a severely handicapped daughter 25, I care for her 24/7-365 that’s my mission, she is my angel. LOL strange the connections we make in it. Peace.


[edit on 14-9-2008 by kirky]



posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 12:17 PM
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reply to post by Manasseh
 


The reason people swear on the Bible is that it means something to THEM. You can swear on a pair of ballet slippers in you want. Or nothing at all. Whatever they swear on does not affect the OATH they are taking to defend the Constitution (or whatever they're swearing to do).

Source



The Constitution doesn't require Presidents or other federal officials to place their hand on the Bible or say the words "so help me God." Quite the contrary, those sections of the Constitution that deal with oaths of office are completely secular in content and, as such, constitute evidence that the framers intended separation.

The Presidential oath of office is described in Article II, section 1 of the Constitution:

Before he enter on the Execution of his Office, he shall take the following Oath or Affirmation:--"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

Nothing in this section requires that the oath of office be taken on the Bible. Neither do the words "so help me God" appear in the oath. While Presidents often include this phrase in their inauguration ceremonies, the words are customary; they are not required by the Constitution and have no legal significance.


I'm totally non-religious and it doesn't bother me one bit. An oath is an oath. It matters not where they put their hands when they take it.



posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 12:44 PM
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reply to post by kirky
 


Thanks for sharing this.

It may not mean anything to others, but it means a lot to me.




posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 04:45 PM
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Okay, this seems mostly resolved, but I want to clarify one fact you mentioned earlier about the Puritan's:


Wasn't it the Puritans who burned people at the stake.


Yes, it was the 'Puritans' as a sense near the end of the 17th century, but it was a documented example of mass hysteria. The Puritan society was formed on the basis,

"For we shall build a city upon a hill"---John Winthrop.

They wanted to be an example for all to see. The reason why the Puritans broke apart from the Church of England was not to create their own sect, but to reform it.

This tradition lives on today in American. Many Americans want to think that they too are setting an example for all to see, or 'a city upon a hill'



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 02:00 PM
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THis country was founded on Judeo-Christian principles which come from the bible. Separating church from state does not mean take the principles this country was founded upon out of the state. We need to keep those principles embedded. What it means is that there is no church sponsored by the government. Like it was with the church of England. So yes no one church should be ran by the state, but the government and president and all leaders should uphold the principle set forth in the Bible. And perhaps that's why they swear an oath on the Bible.


MB



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 02:03 PM
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Originally posted by Spaxz
The United States was founded on Christianity, and has had the oath and pledge in place for over a centery. You act like there has been a sudden change in the system causing a need for alarms to go off, but there is no need.

You wonder why no other group has attacked the way it is done. That's because there not stupid enough to attack america at it's core and risk being destroyed by the public who love there country. The only reason someone complains about this stuff is that there is too much freedoms and not enough to do.


Too much freedom? So you would make slaves of your countrymen?

I think the real question should be, that in a country that supposedly has freedom of religion, why anyone non christian could ever be elected president? we all know that it is true.



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 02:11 PM
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Since it is the a personal oath that the President takes, he is taking it on the book that he considers the representation of his faith.

Viewed in that light I don't think it's problematic.

If we had a president of another faith he would swear in on The Torah, the Koran, the Fountainhead, whatever represents him.



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 02:14 PM
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reply to post by Spaxz
 


No it wasn't. The founding fathers were Deists if anything, certainly not Christians.

Please at least try to get your religious trolling accurate.



posted on Nov, 6 2008 @ 02:16 PM
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reply to post by Manasseh
 


Absolute bollocks of the highest calibre. One's personal beliefs do not, in any way, affect one's ability to perform in public office.

Leave God, or any god, out of public office. He/She/it/they have nothing to do with it. Nothing.



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