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Why creation?

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posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 08:27 AM
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I just don't get it.

I don't understand why people defend Creation Theory with the ferocity that they do.

I've heard that to believe otherwise (evolution) is to be atheist and that any theist must hold literalistic views of genesis. But the statistics don't show that at all. After all most evolutionists are Christians and most Christians are evolutionists.

The two biggest denominations of Christianity, the Orthodox Church

Orthodoxy has no problem with evolution as a scientific theory, only with evolution -- as some people may view it -- eliminating the need for God as Creator of All.

and the Catholic Church

Today, the official Church's position remains a focus of controversy and is fairly non-specific, stating only that faith and scientific findings regarding human evolution are not in conflict, though humans are regarded as a "special creation", and that the existence of God is required to explain the spiritual component of human origins. This view falls into the spectrum of viewpoints that are grouped under the concept of theistic evolution.
 


"...new findings lead us toward the recognition of evolution as more than an hypothesis."
— John Paul II, 1996


There is this warped belief that evolution is creation without God and Creationism is God without evolution but evolution never was whether of not there was a God.
On the whole, evolution says nothing on the subject of God and never will. Most people believe there is a God and they all believe that God is in control of the seemingly random events of our lives. This is true of most of the people who accept evolution also, and they believe that god is in control of evolution just like every other system of nature too. They believe it is part of God's design.




So how did this movement come about?

As far as I can tell, the idea that the bible is all truth and completely accurate.


The early pioneers of evolutionary science were all initially Christian, (including Darwin) and many leading proponents of modern evolutionary science are still Christian today. For example, microbiologist Dr. Ken Miller, (who testified against intelligent design creationism in Kitzmiller v. Dover) -is a Catholic.

Another outspoken proponent of evolution, Dr. Robert T. Bakker, (who has PhDs from both Harvard and Yale) is not only one of the leading, and most recognizable paleontologists in the world today, but he also happens to be a Bible-believing Pentecostal preacher; though he interprets Genesis differently than literalists would. In his book, Bones, Bibles and Creation, he says that to treat the Bible as though it were common history is to degrade its eternal meaning.

One of the earliest geneticists, Theodosius Dobzhansky was an Orthodox Christian who many times professed his belief that life was created by God, but that nothing in biology made sense except in light of evolution. All these men agree that even if there really is a god, and even if that god is the Christian god, and even if that god created the universe and everything in it, =which they all believe- evolution would still be at least mostly true, and creationism would still be completely wrong.

Source


Evolution is not your enemy and in no way has it or will it have anything to do with your faith because it, like all science, has no bearing on the supernatural or spiritual.




posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 03:03 AM
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Originally posted by Good Wolf
I just don't get it.

I don't understand why people defend Creation Theory with the ferocity that they do.


on the other hand one might ask, why are you so ferociously defending evolution theory? when looking your profile, you have made quite many threads and posts in short time regarding this matter-- are you perhaps trying to convience yourself to believe into something that you are uncertain of?



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 03:53 AM
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reply to post by Geemor
 


Answering a question witha a question doesn't help us with the information the OP is looking for.

If you are a Creationist, can you answer Good Wolf's question?

Can you explain why Creationists must argue that evolution goes against the idea of a creator?



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 04:25 AM
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Creationists defend the literal view of Genesis for a number of reasons.


  1. The problem of death before sin.
  2. The reality of Adam and Eve as real people.
  3. The basis of the week as 7 days and particularly the sabbath day as God's day of rest after the creation.
  4. The interpretation of Genesis 1-11 as story suggests we should not trust other portions of scipture.
  5. The problem of insisting science is right and therefore we must reinterpret our understanding of Genesis 1-11 in the light of this. Science shows that miracles don't happen, by definition, should we therefore reinterpet all miracles in the Bible? Science shows dead people do not come out from the grave, should we not believe in a resurrection?


This list is of course from a theological viewpoint and is aimed more at those who wish to accept the Bible as the inerrant word of God and evolution. If you don't accept the Bible as God's inerrant word then the discussion ends there for these points. Of course some people just don't accept evolution anyway for a number of scientific reasons which I won't try and list here. If you really want them go and find one of the many, many threads on this subject.



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 04:50 AM
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reply to post by Horza
 



Originally posted by Horza
Answering a question witha a question doesn't help us with the information the OP is looking for.


you are right and wrong for it does, because it keeps this thread alive. why don't you mind your own business?


Originally posted by Horza

If you are a Creationist, can you answer Good Wolf's question?



because i am not 'creationist' in the sense of this topic, i cannot answer the question. but i like posing questions; they often reveal the stupidity of the asker and the answerer, and perhaps reveal something about the truth that really exists.

the both sides of this 'quarrel' are same to me; they both seek to convience others to believe in something they do. by doing that they just assure and cry out loud their own insecure.

basically i then answered the question which op posed. this is why every 'preacher' is so zealous, no matter what belief they 'preach'. they are insecure deep within and seek comfortation and comfirmation to their beliefs.

know thyself and you know the gods and the universe. i have no further comments.



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 05:22 AM
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Originally posted by Iggus
The problem of insisting science is right and therefore we must reinterpret our understanding of Genesis 1-11 in the light of this. Science shows that miracles don't happen, by definition, should we therefore reinterpret all miracles in the Bible? Science shows dead people do not come out from the grave, should we not believe in a resurrection?


I might point out that accepting the idea that the supernatural is the cause of anything will never help man advance. That is why science doesn't accept supernatural explanations. Even people B.C. knew that if one wanted to cure disease, the cause of the disease needs to be understood. Now look how far the realm of medicine has come. Now people who get sick don't just die, they can be cured or at least are given the chance to live a long time.

I suppose you could only classify anything as a miracle, it would have to be inexplicable in terms of the laws of nature. So one would have to first understand the laws of nature.

If we did not have science, rain would still be considered a miracle

To deny science because it contradicts ones beliefs is tantamount to living in ignorance. Considering the mission of these boards (that we are reminded of each and every time we're here), I would hope more people would like to deny ignorance instead of defending their proud choice to be ignorant.


This list is of course from a theological viewpoint and is aimed more at those who wish to accept the Bible as the inerrant word of God and evolution. If you don't accept the Bible as God's inerrant word then the discussion ends there for these points.


It can hardly be considered inerrant because it was written by men, supposedly on divine inspiration, but by men all the same. What's more, we're talking about men who believed snakes and donkeys could talk (Genesis 3, Numbers 22: 1-35), that rabbits chew cud (Leviticus 11:6), that if you sprinkle blood over someone that it would cure them of leprosy (Leviticus 14), that bats are birds (Deuteronomy 14:11-18 + Leviticus 11:13-19), that whales are fish (Jonah 1:17 + Mat 12:40) and that Pi is a round number (1 kings 7:23 + 2 chronicles 4:2). These people even believe that if you bear stripes to a pregnant cow it will birth a striped calf (Genesis 30:37-39).

There are loads more exclusively about 'the heavens' and the firmament, but I can't be bothered to write them all up.

My point is, why would anyone based their perception of reality entirely on the writings of these ignorant people from long ago, then try and challenge the informed theories (which have been shown to be demonstrably true and continue to be day after day) and keep a strait face?




[edit on 9/15/2008 by Good Wolf]



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 01:48 PM
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Excellent thread Good Wolf!


In my opinion there is a propensity in non believers, especially atheists, to use evolution as a proof there is no God, they take evolution all the way back to abiogenesis.

The militant atheist prosthelytize this view, squeaky wheel gets the grease, and the naive Christian runs out and says "New discovery problematic for evolution"[did I just say that?]


Thanks Good Wolf, this thread has helped me realise alot.



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 01:59 PM
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reply to post by mhc_70
 


No problem, MHC. I'm honoured to have helped.

If you wanna get are REALLY good grasp on creationism and evolution then there is a video series that you should watch called the Foundational Falsehoods of Creationism by Aron Ra.

The 13 parts total to 2h:12m all up, so set aside some time.


They are a great treasure of info that I've drawn on quite a bit on ATS



posted on Sep, 15 2008 @ 06:42 PM
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The reason I believe in Intelligent Design, and will defend it with authority, is that the infallible word of God clearly states that the earth was created in 6 literal days. It also states that man was created, and did not evolve from a lower form of life.

It's as simple as that.



posted on Sep, 16 2008 @ 12:18 AM
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So I see you're seriously not going to interpret Genesis as a fable.


You should go study the history of the bible itself, next time you go to bible study. Pay close attention to the council of nicea and the formulation of books of the bible.

You might learn some disturbing things about the alleged "infallible" word of god.

It was written by man, ignorant man!



posted on Sep, 16 2008 @ 12:26 AM
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Oh man what a bummer, I thought you were going to be different and ask...Now why did God create all this? Start that one and it will get many responses I bet.



posted on Sep, 16 2008 @ 12:33 AM
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First of all, evolution is no longer a theory, but a fact. Enough evidence has been gather to prove it to be true.

As to why people still cling to creationism, Jesse Ventura said it best! "Organized Religion is for the weak minded!"

Creationism is an outdated philosophy created by an ancient people to explain the begining of the world.

On which day did God create the dinosaurs?

I am a very spiritual person, by the way, not an aethiest. One does not have to follow ancient texts to believe in a higher power!



posted on Sep, 16 2008 @ 12:37 AM
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What is there not to get?

Sure some bible thumping weak minded nimrods will believe anything.

Anyone with half a cerebellum that does there homework will know life and the branches of it have been honed by millions of years of evolution.



posted on Sep, 16 2008 @ 12:39 AM
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[edit on 16-9-2008 by JaxonRoberts]



posted on Sep, 16 2008 @ 12:41 AM
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reply to post by TH3ON3
 


I will answer your question with a post I put on another thread


Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
Maybe our definition of "God" is all wrong. I believe that "God", in the begining was a being of pure thought and pure energy. Imagine if you were born with none of your five senses. Just your mind. Then imagine you had the power to create those senses (the big bang). I believe "God" IS the universe itself, and we are merely extentions of this divine being trying to understand itself. We are merely one of those senses, and yes, we have free will so that all things can be experienced. "God" doesn't live outside of science. Quantum String theory actually explains this existance and the higher dimensions where energy vibrates at a higher level. The universe is comprised of energy, it's all connected, including us mere mortal humans!



posted on Sep, 16 2008 @ 12:42 AM
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Originally posted by jpm1602
What is there not to get?

Sure some bible thumping weak minded nimrods will believe anything.


It was more meant as a rhetorical question. This was more for the many creationists on here that just don't get that the theory of evolution is not a threat or an attempt to disprove Dod



posted on Sep, 16 2008 @ 12:48 AM
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Understood good wolf. There is more than enough room for evolution AND God in our current genre.

Nice avatar by the way. You got any sisters? lol

I think it funny how some hang on to a rope from a tree like a well trained fighting pit bull for hours to prove a pointless point.


[edit on 9/16/2008 by jpm1602]



posted on Sep, 16 2008 @ 01:19 AM
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Originally posted by jpm1602
Understood good wolf. There is more than enough room for evolution AND God in our current genre.

Nice avatar by the way. You got any sisters? lol


It's funny you should mention it, because I had the wolf in your avatar as my avatar on another forum.


The other thing I shouldda mentioned is that these same creationists deny evolution purely because they don't understand it. I've seen so many misconceptions on here that I'm stunned. Case in point- the idea that evolution tries to answer the question of where did life come from in the first place.

ERR!



posted on Sep, 16 2008 @ 01:25 AM
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I have learned never to be stunned or amazed at the ridiculousness of man.

Some make it into an art.

Hey! You were wolfin' me without my expressed consent?! You aint gettin' any of the next kill. grrrr, lol.

[edit on 9/16/2008 by jpm1602]



posted on Sep, 16 2008 @ 01:36 AM
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reply to post by jpm1602
 


No, I meant that I went to make a wolf avatar and google image searched and that was a frequent image to come up. I only had a 80x80 pixel size to use.

And anyway, this pup can kill wat he likes!




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