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Swing-State Newspapers Distribute 'Terror' Videos

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posted on Sep, 16 2008 @ 05:43 PM
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Originally posted by Hal9000


Originally posted by xmaddness
The Obsession movie may explain that there are radical extremist out to destroy us, but what it doesn't tell you is exactly why have they decided the US is their enemy. In the movie, all they say is that they want to destroy the West so that means us. They don't explain that the reason is because we have been supporting Israel and our CIA has interfered with Middle Eastern countries through covert operations, as they did in the 1953 coup detat in Iran for example. They don't tell you that AIPAC is the most powerful lobbyist in Washington, and is literally dictating our foreign policy for us.
l


History proves you wrong Muslims were attacking the Us long before isreal was involved Its called the Barbery wars are the United States 1st brush with islam.

In 1793, Algerian pirates captured the cargo ship Polly, plundered it and imprisoned the 12-man crew. The Algerian captain informed the American captives they could expect harsh treatment "for your history and superstition in believing in a man who was crucified by the Jews and disregarding the true doctrine of God's last and greatest prophet, Mohammed."

Need more here an envoy was sent from the us to negotiate with tripoli this was there ambassadors response:



Here’s a description from The Atlantic Monthly in 1872:

Disguising their feelings as best they could, they ‘took the liberty to make some inquiries concerning the ground of the pretensions to make war upon nations who had done them no injury.’ The ambassador replied that it was written in their Koran, that all nations which had not acknowledged the Prophet were sinners, whom it was the right and duty of the faithful to plunder and enslave.” He claimed every one of their guys who was “slain in this warfare was sure to go to paradise.


And all this happened without are support for Isreal And this was before the CIA so i guess that sorta invalidates your ideas of why were being attacked by muslim extremists huh.




posted on Sep, 16 2008 @ 08:22 PM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.



Originally posted by xmaddness
We have been supporting Israel, because without our support, the Jewish sector of Israel would have been slaughtered long ago.

I don't know. I thought they held their own pretty well in the 6 day war, without our help.



Allow us to take a short look back into history. What exactly was the cause for the rise of Hitler’s Nazi Germany? It was directly a result of what the United States, France, Great Britain, Italy, and Japan dictated at the Treaty of Versailles.

How in the world do you think that the Treaty of Versailles was the CAUSE of the rise of Nazi Germany? I think it rose on it's own.



So in your way of thinking, you must now clearly mean that the extermination of the Jews in the concentration camps is entirely United States fault. I will jump on the phone for you and start spreading the truth behind the holocaust.

The United States caused the holocaust!

Thank you for putting these most ridiculous words into my mouth. I suppose next you will call me antisemitic? Obviously, you don't understand so let me explain.

I pointed out the factual history of the US interfering with Middle Eastern Countries starting with the coupe detat in Iran 1953. We installed the Shah of Iran who was later over thrown in the Islamic Revolution in 1979, which gave rise to Ayatollah Khomeini, and also lead to the hostage crisis where 52 Americans were held for 444 days for taking in the Shah when he fled the country. If we did not interfere at the very beginning, none of this would have happened and we would not be in the standoff we are in today. Iran was a Western friendly country before the Islamic Revolution and our actions allowed the rise of extremists.

We also interfered in Afghanistan supporting a proxy war against Russia,(whom we tricked into invading) and after they pulled out we left that decimated country for dead. That allowed the Taliban to rise to power and they became a safe haven for al Qaeda and the hatching of the 9/11 attacks. So after 9/11, we invaded Afghanistan and destroyed all the training camps and we are still there. If we did not fight a proxy war or get Russia to invade Afghanistan, none of this, including 9/11, would have happened.

Shall I go on? This is only a fraction of the entire story, mind you.



Past actions should not dictate future obligations,

You are absolutely wrong. We are responsible for our actions of the past because they affect what is going on today.


or be reason to simply give up and allow extremists into your country to do as they will.

I said nothing of giving up, but our past actions are the real reason for the War on Terror and it is not because of Islamic Religious Ideology. It is in retaliation of our interfering with them.

If you do not understand the root of a problem, you will never solve it. The more people we kill and the more countries we invade will only add fuel to the fire. This is what is wrong with the mentality of this country. We think the only solution is to kill the enemy instead of stopping a foreign policy that fosters terrorism instead of stopping it.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Sep, 16 2008 @ 08:32 PM
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reply to post by dragonridr
 


The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


The Barbary Wars were also not religious motivated. It was over economic trade and it was against the Ottoman Empire, which no longer exists. Hardly relevant.


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Sep, 16 2008 @ 08:41 PM
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Obama's CHANGE will counter The Bush Gang lies.

After all, Osama did nothing but to warn us.

What get me is how did Bush got a second term.. yeah
he steam rolled everyone with executive orders and war.

Good enough for a mk untra graduate.



posted on Sep, 16 2008 @ 09:53 PM
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Originally posted by Hal9000
reply to post by dragonridr
 



The Barbary Wars were also not religious motivated. It was over economic trade and it was against the Ottoman Empire, which no longer exists. Hardly relevant.


Really wasn't about religion hmmmm then why did the statement from the ambassador cause Thomas Jefferson to create a standing army and attack them? By the way the US had no standing army until this point. They discussed the threat in congress. And the fact that most historians refer to the reason for the attacks as being religious do to the pirates believing the Quran said it was ok. So how was this not involved with religion. Oh and ottoman empire had nothing to do with it.



posted on Sep, 16 2008 @ 10:21 PM
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How in the world do you think that the Treaty of Versailles was the CAUSE of the rise of Nazi Germany? I think it rose on it's own.


Allow me to go a bit further. I made the assumption you would be able to connect the dots.

The Treaty of Versailles, and in particular the reparations it demanded (in the area of 200 billion Reich marks or £ 11.3 billion) was the cause of the economic downfall of Germany post World War 1. It caused the country to go into a hyperinflation, which was so bad, that people actually burned money, because it was cheaper than wood. The inflation also brought about resentment for the Jewish banking class, by both the people and the government.

Hitler made it his personal cause, along with the help of Josef Goebbels, his minister of propaganda, to convince the people of Germany that they would rebuild and achieve greater heights of wealth than ever before. In February of 1921 Hitler spoke in front of a crowd of almost six thousand in Munich. To advertise for it he sent out supporters wearing swastikas to throw out leaflets. One of the main topics of these speeches was his contempt against the Treaty of Versailles, and the “Jews” that were destroying the economy of Germany.

This is "how in the world" I think that the Treaty of Versailles was the CAUSE of the rise of Nazi Germany.


In your original reply you stated the following:

They don't explain that the reason is because we have been supporting Israel and our CIA has interfered with Middle Eastern countries through covert operations, as they did in the 1953 coup detat in Iran for example.


You say that the US support of Israel and our CIA interference in the Middle East is the reason they are rising up. This is along the same lines that caused the rise of Hitler, and back then, we did nothing until it was too late.

Are we to make the same mistake again?


Once again this area of discussion is I think a bit more off topic than the OP wanted it, so allow me to try and place it back into the area that I believe it was intended to be.

The fact that this is being used as a political bargaining chip is not something I entirely agree with. I do however believe that the message should be told, even if it is not entirely “politically correct”.




[edit on 16-9-2008 by xmaddness]



posted on Sep, 17 2008 @ 05:05 AM
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reply to post by xmaddness
 


You seem to see the effects clearly enough, but are ignoring the real causes. The treaty of Versailles was designed to create a future enemy to fight, just as our interference in the Middle East was. War is the single best devise for economic conquest. It never fails to whip the people up into a self-sacrificing frenzy, and during it’s chaos, all manner of crimes may go unreported. War is big business, the biggest, and getting our emotions all wrapped up in it is the ultimate sales job.



posted on Sep, 17 2008 @ 06:27 AM
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reply to post by xmaddness
 


The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


The Treaty of Versailles was used for the Nazis to gain power, but it was simply a supporting issue that Hitler used. It wasn't the cause of the rise of the Nazi Party.

The reason that you believe that religion is the cause of the their hatred is because religion is used by these countries to unite the people and get them to fight. The same way it is being used in this Obsession DVD to scare us into believing it is the real cause for their hatred. Both sides are guilty of this, but it has nothing to do with the real reasons why they consider the US the enemy. It is because we have interfered and forced what we believe is in our national best interest. We use the excuse of spreading democracy in the ME, but we don't consider what the population of these countries want. What right do we have to do this? Would you want some other country telling you to change so it is better for them?

If religion was really to blame for any ME country extremist agenda, then please explain why no ME country has invaded another country to spread their religion in the last 100 years or so?


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.


[edit on 9/17/2008 by Hal9000]

[edit on 9/17/2008 by Hal9000]



posted on Sep, 17 2008 @ 06:53 AM
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Originally posted by Hal9000
reply to post by slicobacon
 



When you compare Muslims to Nazis and Hitler like they do in this movie, I would call that propaganda.


When did they compare Muslims to Nazis? They gave an historical context for Islamic Extremists. Not Muslims. Are you denying that there was collaboration between Islamic extremists and Hitler?

During WWII, the streets of Lebanon were plastered with signs that said, "In death your god is Allah, but in life it is Hitler".


They don't explain that the reason is because we have been supporting Israel and our CIA has interfered with Middle Eastern countries through covert operations, as they did in the 1953 coup detat in Iran for example. They don't tell you that AIPAC is the most powerful lobbyist in Washington, and is literally dictating our foreign policy for us.

Maybe to find the truth, you need to look a little deeper than some propaganda DVD.


No, thats those are excuses given by the terrorists. They have countless amount of excuses and no short supply of "folks" here in the west that give them credibility.

If we were to pull back all of our forces to the US, they would still kill and you would be there to excuse them for some other reason!

You keep calling the video propaganda, but have yet to explain what exactly the propaganda is. Wat is untrue in the video? When I think propaganda, I think of Al Gore's movie. The one that people are FORCED to watch in school across the country.




Shall I go on? This is only a fraction of the entire story, mind you.


A "fraction" is right. No other countries involved and Islamic extremists hands are clean as the wind driven snow? Talk about propaganda....





[edit on 17-9-2008 by Dronetek]



posted on Sep, 17 2008 @ 08:14 AM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.



Originally posted by Dronetek
When did they compare Muslims to Nazis? They gave an historical context for Islamic Extremists. Not Muslims. Are you denying that there was collaboration between Islamic extremists and Hitler?

Now you want to argue semantics between labels? Sorry I don't have time for that and I also never said there wasn't any collaboration between ONE extremist leader and Hitler. You are also putting words into my mouth which I don't have time to argue.



During WWII, the streets of Lebanon were plastered with signs that said, "In death your god is Allah, but in life it is Hitler".

If we were to pull back all of our forces to the US, they would still kill and you would be there to excuse them for some other reason!

The solution is not to simply pull forces out. My mouth is getting tired of all the words you are putting into it. The solution is to change our foreign policy of interfering with other countries. The damage that we have caused is already done and will take decades to fix, and invading countries and killing more people will never solve the problem and only make it worse.



You keep calling the video propaganda, but have yet to explain what exactly the propaganda is. Wat is untrue in the video? When I think propaganda, I think of Al Gore's movie. The one that people are FORCED to watch in school across the country.

Haven't you been reading? I have been saying that religious ideology is not the true cause of terrorism. It is because of our interfering in their affairs. For someone who makes a lot of assumptions on my part, why can't you assume this?

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.


[edit on 9/17/2008 by Hal9000]



posted on Sep, 17 2008 @ 09:11 AM
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reply to post by Hal9000
 



Haven't you been reading? I have been saying that religious ideology is not the true cause of terrorism. It is because of our interfering in their affairs. For someone who makes a lot of assumptions on my part, why can't you assume this?


Are you serious? Are you going to make me start posting quotes and declarations from the various prominent Islamic terrorist groups in the world? All of which specifically site religion as the reason to martyr one's self?

-Why does Nasralla and Ahmadinejad always talking about the return of the 12th imam?

-One of the main reasons the Sunnis started helping us in Iraq, is because of the religious zealotry of AQI. How can you deny thats all about religion?

-What about the Islamic Caliphate Osama and the gang are always talking about?

-What about the religious martyr videos put out before a suicide bombing?

-Why is this extremism preached in Mosques?

-Sharia Law

-70 Virgins

-ect...


There is literally hundreds of other examples I could give. Which leads me to wonder why you would dismiss the religious aspect. Again, how do you explain the rise of Islamic extremism before any of excuses you listed?





[edit on 17-9-2008 by Dronetek]



posted on Sep, 17 2008 @ 11:37 AM
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reply to post by Dronetek
 


The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


Believe what you want, but terrorism is a monster of our own making. Just because they resort to barbaric tactics and use religion to motivate their population does not change the fact that they view us as the enemy because of our actions.

Because of the situation we are in now, there are two ways to resolve it. One is to acknowledge our mistakes and change our foreign policy accordingly and deal with the aftermath, and the other is to be in a constant war for decades until you kill every extremist and beat the remaining population into submission. Take your pick.


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Sep, 17 2008 @ 01:47 PM
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In the interest of balance, do they plan on distributing "The Power of Nightmares: The Rise of the Politics of Fear" as well?

The problem is that in the U.S. you're still about as likely to be killed/injured in a terrorist attack as you are to be killed/injured by a lightning strike. Where's our "War on Thunderstorms"?


The video is just feeding people's irrational fears of the Muslim faith. In the U.S. a person is far more likely to be killed by someone who was raised "Christian" than by someone raised "Muslim", and trying to diminish either group to "just a bunch of bloodthirsty savages" is ridiculous.



posted on Sep, 17 2008 @ 02:33 PM
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You know, maybe the American people need to be scared every now and then. I'm not going to make a comment like "Vote McCain because only a Republican president can keep us safe from the Islamo-fascists" because national security isn't (or at least shouldn't be) a partisan dividing line. I don't think Democrats want us to be attacked, by and large. I do believe that the Democrats want the American people to forget about 9/11 and forget about Islamo-fascist terrorism come election time, because they recognize that it is an issue they're percieved to be extremely weak against. (largely thanks to their own actions or lack thereof, I might add)

To anyone who says they're offended by these DVDs being placed in newspapers and who says it's "fear mongering" to get dirty votes for McCain, I'll swing the table on you. It offends me everytime a person who supports a candidate weak against terror & with a weak national securityu platform attempts to under-emphasize the importance of national security or the gravity of the very REAL threat of terrorism against America. It offends me when they manipulate the happenings of 9/11 to make wild accusations against our own government and misdirect attention away from the external threats to our safety and security all because they know that in a "fair" fight, nose to nose, their candidates cannot build a platform of strong national security and a promise of rapid military response overnight, which is what they would have to do in order to succeed against the Republicans on that front... so, instead of acknowledging it is an area where they need to improve and taking steps towards that improvement, they try to run misdirections or flat out sweep the issue under the rug, screaming "foul!" anytime it is brought up against them.

And you all know damn good & well if this was a DVD about liberally supported programs' successes rebuilding inner cities and helping underprivaledged minorities, you same people who are saying this is so offensive to you would be happy as hogs in slop over that DVD. Honestly, if you find yourself connected to a political party or movement that bristles at the mere mention of national security in the face of global terrorism, and that statement immediately makes you think "GASP! How could they bring out such propaganda?" then maybe you should sit down and educate yourself on the reality of Islamic terror. It's like locking the barn door after the horses have escaped, regardless of what started these terror groups or what previous policies we had that pissed them off, the reality of the situation is they're here, today, and they aren't going anywhere anytime soon. Should you rip the opposing party because they have a greater strength in this area and they dare admit that fact, or should you call on your own party to catch the hell up and strengthen their own position in this realm so it no longer is an issue to be hissed at and swept away, hopefully out of sight & mind?



posted on Sep, 17 2008 @ 04:16 PM
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I have been saying that religious ideology is not the true cause of terrorism. It is because of our interfering in their affairs.


While this may be true, religion ideology is now at the very forefront of what these people are using to spread their radical views. I do not see how you can deny that.



it has nothing to do with the real reasons why they consider the US the enemy. It is because we have interfered and forced what we believe is in our national best interest. We use the excuse of spreading democracy in the ME, but we don't consider what the population of these countries want. What right do we have to do this? Would you want some other country telling you to change so it is better for them?


Here you are entirely wrong. Allow me to remind you of this little document called The Qur'an. In this document you have the following translated verse from chapter 4 of the book. (www.usc.edu...)



004.089
YUSUFALI: They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks;-



The reason they have hatred for the US, and EVERY OTHER NON BELIEVING NATION is because it IS mandated in their own "bible"!

How do you not understand this?!?

Why are you still DEFENDING THIS??





@burdman30ott6

I could not have said it better myself. Thank you.

xmad

[edit on 17-9-2008 by xmaddness]



posted on Sep, 17 2008 @ 07:11 PM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


Then riddle me this, Mr. Madness.


Originally posted by Hal9000
If religion was really to blame for any ME country extremist agenda, then please explain why no ME country has invaded another country to spread their religion in the last 100 years or so?


Why have you failed to answer my question? The answer to your question lies in there somewhere.


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Sep, 17 2008 @ 10:33 PM
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If religion was really to blame for any ME country extremist agenda, then please explain why no ME country has invaded another country to spread their religion in the last 100 years or so?


The answer is actually quite simple; they have, but not as a “country”. This is a religion that crosses country borders and does not call one place home more than another, except maybe Mecca in Saudi Arabia. The Islamic and Muslim faith, which 90-95% of which are normal and civil people, have no need for a country or an army in order to spread their word. There is no need for them to “invade” another country in order to spread their faith, their religion, and in the extremist areas, their hatred. There are no political boundaries, or borders that they must cross by force in order to spread their ideology.

With this in mind realize that in order to achieve their goals; they do not need an army of people. They instead use small cells and groups in order to carry out their “mission” or their “jihad”. I sincerely hope that I will not have to list every terrorism event as proof.



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 07:41 AM
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I am not naive enough to think that any President or administration can protect us from such a threat as Islamic Radicals or anyone else.

By this I mean Republican Democrat or any other party. This rubbish is all political rhetoric and campaign stumping. I am not impressed.

I ordered the video and it came yesterday. I watched it last night even though I also watched the U Tube version.
As I stated on page 1 of this thread..my sister has been telling me to watch it for about a year now.

I am well aware that both the Hebrews and Muslims both will use fear and terror tactics in achieving their political ambitions. One can claim what one likes...both of these groups are control freaks. Some of them are just smoother at it than others.

I am also aware that The Hebrews as well as the Muslims have operated both political as well as hit squads in the continental United States. 9/11 cleared this up for most of us. I am also aware that other nations have operated hit squads here in this country.

I am also well aware that the media here in the United States is "not" fair and balanced..no matter what network is claiming so. It is up to us to educate ourselves and develop our own filters to decode what passes for news and information's. The motto of "deny ignorance" is not an idle message.

In my mind there is something going on in Europe for which our media is attempting for political reasons..to keep us very ignorant. It has been going on for years before 9/11. From what I can tell it went on even before the Munich Olympics of 1972 and has been slowly festering...building up steam. The body politics is just parasiting off this trend...for election capital...both parties.

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 12:13 PM
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reply to post by SevenThunders
 


I share and wholeheartly agree with this post. I simply can't believe that under the banner of religous freedom we accepts the muslim belief that infidels must die. Until the Koran removes this idea from its "HOLY SCRIPTURES",. any non muslem is a complete fool to trust any muslim.



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 05:56 PM
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reply to post by AllSeeingI
 


I received mine in the mail toady with my name on it!

Now HOW in the heck did they get my name?

Any ways........

If you have studied history you will note the similarities between this
and NAZI Germany. The Nazi's did the same thing the Jew's were blamed for every thing that went wrong and was going wrong.

This is the same sort of thing FEAR MONGERING!!!!!!!!!

So now every who is is a Muslim is radical!

If you want I know where there are some Radical Christians!
How about 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

Hey George Huston just called they say they are missing their villiage
idiot.

PEOPLE do not give in to these hate mongers, it is a scam.
Next thing you know the authorities will want you to report any and all
suspicious activity's of your neighbors or any one who just does not
belong.

Wing-Nut




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