My first contact with another being

reply to post by mystiq

If you were visited tonight by a very advanced human race, that took you aboard their craft and you had a very conscious, very positive visit. If they told you something similar, but along the same protocol as SM's message. What would you say to them?

I would inform them that purely verbally recounted, unsubstantiated contact, irrespective of any “galactic law” dictating that it remains unsupported by material evidence or visual corroboration by those outside the contact, only creates confusion and division. Humans with previously deep seated convictions will always argue for their own personal beliefs, and aggressively dispute any alternative (just look at this thread as an example). But, I would argue, if irrefutable evidence is supplied to support the contact, then their message has a far better chance of not only swaying those convictions, but of reaching a far greater audience.

In other words; give me something solid to work with.

As to what are you supposed to say as a skeptic, I don't know the answer, except to say I wish this thread was a little more balanced at times with more being said about possibilities.

This thread is balanced, Mystiq, and it’s balanced because of counter argument and disagreement.

If the skeptical contingent weren’t here, this thread would be akin to a bible-class. No alternate viewpoint, just listen, absorb and tow the party line. That isn’t what ATS is about, or life in general. We should all make up our own opinion, not have it handed to us.

Carl Sagan once said:

"The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas."

www.goodreads.com...

Does that not make sense?

After a couple of days away from ATS , I feel that the thread has meandered to far from the real original purpose of the OP to the petty bickering we as people have always suffered from.
Whether or not Smokingman is telling the truth about meeting an ET or is just making it up , only he knows for certain. We have to listen and react accordingly.
We ALL have our own opinions and thats what make us individual and is part or who we are.

None of us , either sceptic, believer or fencer has neither the right nor means to 'force' our opinions onto anyone else. We can only give our take on the issue at hand. The only FACT is that someone is wrong, but we don't know who is it till the actual truth is revealed.
We can only offer 'suggestions' for the rest to absorb or dispute or flatly refuse.

Even though I have both sides of the issue on my friends list, Both Smokingman and Beamish , I respect both of their 'opinions', I even took Riggs off my ignore list because even HE has an opinion that needs to heard, even if I don't like what he has to say sometimes. Sorry Riggs.

Until we all have an encounter with an ET face to face, so we can then write about it we can argue as much as we like, but please stay away from the petty namecalling, the small minded slurs against ones character.

They ARE NOT needed.

Only the truth matters.

And besides even IF Smokingman IS lying then its still a story to either inspire hope that there is more to our existance than just pootling along trying to make ends meet, OR it can give us a change of mind or alter our perspectives towards each other. Maybe the snipits he tells us about makes us aware that we are ( supposedly ) an advanced culture on the verge of changing its way from one of grab to one of share.

Starwars is a story but one that has still changed lives but it contains no real aliens ( that we know of ), but its a story most of us enjoy, this thread should be treated no different until proof is presented in our hands for all to see..

reply to post by smokingman2006

I have no one on my ignore list as I feel that as the OP I should be able to answer all posters but when they become repeat attacks I start to ignore their post.

smokingman2006, the first part of that above quote is a prevarication. You constantly ignore counterpoints to your message that you find awkward.

And whilst I understand to a degree disregarding personal attacks, do your “contacts” advocate discounting the opinions of skeptics? If they do, isn’t that a strange posture for an enlightened species? To brush off questions that, in their basis, exhibit a desire to learn more surely is the mark of an “awakening” mind, isn’t it?

To simply disregard them is, well, almost an authoritarian position.

I have never said I was this new enlightened person I have only ever stated that I am just a regular guy who has had regular contact with other beings for nearly 6 month now.

Ah, but when you are asked questions of your “experience” that demand definitive and informed answers, you are more than willing to oblige. Do you not realise that some will see you as “enlightened” because of that? That some will look on you as a fount of knowledge?

Of course you do, because if you don’t you are a displaying a real lack of worldly experience. And as you’ve told us previously, and in great detail, that is apparently not the case.

true I have held back alot of my experiences from those contacts as seeing how some react to what I have told so far I did not want to give them petrol to put on the fire.

This is akin to saying: “I have evidence/proof/documents etc…but can’t show you.” Do you know how many times we’ve read that on ATS? And do you know how many times it’s turned out to be false information?

And what could you possibly have that would fuel the fire of disbelief that tops crystal skulls, dragons, MIB, alien crystals and talking to Jesus and Zeus?

But you should also remember that I am selling nothing have no, books ,website and am not trying in any way to make gains from these contact other then trying to get people to look outside the box. So whatever you think of me I have no motive to be doing this unless I believe in it.

What about attention?

You’re getting plenty of that.

And as Amigo said, you have no other outlet for your message yet, but who’s to know about the future (apart from the Pleiadians, that is)?

Originally posted by DataWraith
After a couple of days away from ATS , I feel that the thread has meandered to far from the real original purpose of the OP to the petty bickering we as people have always suffered from.

Exactly which is why I tryed to change its direction but all people did was continue bickering.

In recent days I have started to feel strongly about of all this negativity around aliens and 2012. Yesterday some posts (on ATS not in here) I read were verging on the insane so I felt I wanted to address the balance, its become too negative, too fearful so I did this thread.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I find there is less and less calling me back to this first contact thread, I dont log on for pages and pages of personal claim and counter claim, I log on for actual discussions about what could be happening. I know it may NOT be happening but by discussing it we can at least try to work out what is going on.

reply to post by DataWraith


If this thread has lost focus, then that is not the fault of anyone who has replied to it.

Say for one minute the message was real (as in from the Pleiadians); surely there would have been regular input from them to bring it back on course? And if we follow that line of thinking, then it appears they seem to be trusting smokingman2006 to relay their communications without bothering to check on his progress.

And if that’s the case, then just what is he telling them in return?

Of course, that’s all hypothetical, as the facts point strongly to a different set of circumstances. In my estimation, this thread has meandered because the author does not have the capacity to pull it back on track. When he disappears for any length of time, all we seem to get on his return is; another contact, portals/ufos, a vision of the future which is invariably bleak, how much it affected him.

The thread isn’t progressing, not because of the skeptics, but because the author has run out of ammunition.

Find one thing that made us all sit up and take notice in positive and curious way.

We can only offer 'suggestions' for the rest to absorb or dispute or flatly refuse.

You’re quite right there, DataWraith

I don’t want to force my viewpoint on anyone. And I won’t. If someone wants to listen to an alternate viewpoint to the thread’s author’s and take it on board, maybe even change their position because of it, then so be it.

But I’ll continue to put it across despite having my opinion ignored and being called an idiot/liar/disinfo-agent etc. This is my right as a free thinking individual who has spotted gaping flaws in a story of supposed enlightened and awakened beings. What else am I supposed to do?

Oh yea; go away, apparently.

And besides even IF Smokingman IS lying then its still a story to either inspire hope that there is more to our existance than just pootling along trying to make ends meet, OR it can give us a change of mind or alter our perspectives towards each other. Maybe the snipits he tells us about makes us aware that we are ( supposedly ) an advanced culture on the verge of changing its way from one of grab to one of share.

Starwars is a story but one that has still changed lives but it contains no real aliens ( that we know of ), but its a story most of us enjoy, this thread should be treated no different until proof is presented in our hands for all to see..

We all know there is more to our existence than we know! That’s why we’re all on ATS, to try and find out just what it is!

But what we don’t need is someone trying to elaborate poorly and because of spurious reasons as to just what that concept might entail.

If he’s lying (and if he is, he’ll be found out for sure), then he’ll be banned and remembered accordingly. That’ll be a sorry end for a story that might have given some people hope.

I hope he sees the moral dilemma in that.

reply to post by Beamish


Hi Beamish

I agree the messages have run dry so to speak...but what if these encounters only happen say once or twice in a year or possibly lifetime??? What if we dont fully understand the nature of these encounters? Maybe its not possible to keep coming through portals all the time, maybe the energy needed is vast and protocols have to be put in place for it to happen. This question takes on board that you have to actually believe this is happening to SM of course, but say it is isnt this a good reason as to why she cant return all the time maybe?

reply to post by smokingman2006


I would hold it back, too, if these were the types of people I was telling my story to. I just look at it like this, why in the he** are they even here? Because they SO believe you! This is their egos that they can't put in the bags. Just the fact that you were contacted and not them, pisses them off.

That's my take, and I will keep them on ignore. Like tivo-ing out the commercials from a good show! I admire your bravery, still, SM. Deny the ignorants.

reply to post by Mr Green


I’ll answer your points as if we are assuming he is telling the truth (but with skeptical annotations).

His messages are not only running dry, but the ones we are getting are dry in content, too; read back over the past few (and I’m accused of being repetitive).

From these, is it fair to draw a conclusion that the Pleiadian’s agenda is limited in scope and substance, or can we assume that the real author is loosing interest? After all, it’s not going well for him, is it?

Where’s the hours and hours of dialogue Billy Meier produced, not to mention the thousands of pages of written accounts of a contact that smokingman2006 himself has said with conviction were real? Are “Amizarac” and “Orzmel” really becoming reticent? And if they are, why?

smokingman2006 has stated that he’s been contacted several times now; I haven’t bothered to count how many times, but it seems a relatively regular occurrence.

I’m awaiting a new one to reinvigorate the thread, and his believers.

What if we dont fully understand the nature of these encounters?

Without something concrete to measure them against, how can we understand them fully?
Over the short while I’ve been a member of ATS, I have found my opinion changing as to the nature of some “extraterrestrial” encounters and sightings. Now, I find it only right to accept the possibility that some of them may well represent almost preternatural phenomena. We interpret these events using acceptable and familiar points of reference; if we see a light in the sky, it has to be a craft of some description; an alien appears before us, it has to be flesh and blood etc. The supernatural explanation may be an uncomfortable, and as yet unverifiable, point of view, but until we have more than the scant, and often highly controversial, empirical evidence available it is all we can go on.

The prospect of smokingman2006’s “experiences” being anything other than a rerun of 1950’s contactee stories, to me, is dubious. He is not presenting it as a metaphysical narrative, but as real, physical events. He even said he had evidence locked in his safe (but we weren’t allowed to see it; another hoaxer ploy) for goodness sake, when we were clamoring for it! His message is of real and imminent destruction by a real and physical solar body. The urgent concept of “awakening” he is employing is being utilized in total disregard to the initial part of his message. It is there to appease and attract believers. And whilst I am not advocating not expanding our consciousnesses, what matter a hypothetical awakening happening in three years if we’re all doomed anyway? The two just don’t tally.

Maybe its not possible to keep coming through portals all the time, maybe the energy needed is vast and protocols have to be put in place for it to happen.

I, nor you, nor anyone can comment on the efficacy of alien technology/psychical aptitude, unfortunately. It is all delicious supposition suited to theoretical discussions, not a thread that, in my opinion, spuriosly recounts alien contact.

If I were pushed, and at the risk of going off-topic, I would venture an opinion that the Pleiadian’s technology and protocols for transportation would be as unfathomable to us as ours would be to someone from the Medieval era.
But, using the same scenario, given patience on our earlier cousin's part, and a willingness on our part to develope their limited knowledge, we would be able to usher them gently into a new age of expanded understanding.

It's a shame the Pleiadian's and their earthly representative don't adopt the same attitude instead of plying us with old knowledge.

This is not balanced! I would send you a link to what a very good experience thread of over 100 pages looks like on another forum, which toes into ideas, many from other experiencers, even debates as to the nature or the ets, and whether or not they ets are being truthful, not even those on the thread, with many varied people wandering in. This category on ATS should have been like that. There is not a chance I would provide a direct link to that thread. On this other thread, it wouldn't matter if something an et said came true or not since the author is sharing his experiences that many were interested in, and in his own way was a skeptic, examining ets intentions.

SM should be able share that he is being visited, and what is said, and discuss not only the information but various feelings about the information. This is a grey area, about experiences. There are people who really want news.



[edit on 26-2-2009 by mystiq]

Hi readers & posters

Reading over the remarks and comments for posters on this thread I notice that one of the biggest problems with this thread is that some feel that there is or should be more to the message that has been posted so far.

I had hope for more awakenings before I delivered the next part of Amizarac message to us but as the timetable for these event has been moved much forward I feel that I have no option but to relay them now.

2012 and whatever may happen is far from being our most meditate problem.

When I stated that once all the events had passed and if we are lucky we would be reduced to 100 odd million has cause a lot of drama on this board what I did not mention is that if we follow the course we are on there will only be about 200 million of us left before this event in 2012.


Amizarac message is distressing to say the least but it is also an early warning that can help us avoid this fate some would like most of us to have.

In 1998 a meeting was held by the highest member of the human ruling class at this meeting it was determined that at the rate in numbers the population was growing and the rate we were consuming this planet would become impossible too control.
food and energy would become a huge problem within 40 years and massive public disorder and border infringement would become part of our daily life.

The ruling class having learn from history and also wanting to maximize the longevity of current natural resource decided on a plan to reduce our numbers by between 80 and 90% .

Amizarac message was that this population reduction process has already started and we , not alien will reduce our numbers by billions if we follow and listen to the solutions of our ruling class in the next coming years.

This financial meltdown we are facing is just the start and if you really understand the numbers that are getting thrown into the mix to fix this problem you would soon realize that it would take the best part of two generations to repay just what is on the table today.

A poor jobless and broken people is much easier to led over the cliff than a well fed contented one.


And yes many deep bunkers have been built to house those still around in 2012 but none reading these board will get an invite.

From very early on I spoke of visions of million of homeless and beaten people wandering around senselessly and that is what future awaits us if we allow the ruling class the blind us with what is really happening today.
Once there are 100 of millions of jobless weak and hungry people it will be easy for the sweepers to come in and
tidy things up.

What happens today will define tomorrow.

The main message is till we human stand on our own two legs and say “enough I don't agree with this” we can not expect outside help.

We have the numbers we have the brains but do we have the will.

The sad part is that for every one that is alert on this planet 10 others are deeply asleep and those will not even see it coming.

For those wanting to flame me some more you have 2 week from today then I am off to try and do my part to avoid this in the real world.
Peace& hope
SM






[edit on 26-2-2009 by smokingman2006]

[edit on 26-2-2009 by smokingman2006]

Of course this about murdering billions of people! The depleted uranium used since Yugoslavia isn't working fast enough for them, for they have already poisoned the planet and us for 4.5 billion years. I have a thread on that subject, as well idust.net has much information, including that megatons of this has already bonded to the global atmosphere and we're all breathing this in, and having millions of nuclear events at a cellular level occur each year in our bodies. On one thread here it says they either have, are, or are planning on bringing in tons of depleted uranium sand.

This is about how we respond. Benjamin Fulford says that it amounts to 50 old men or all of us. We need to turn this around completely. But the visitors also said if we ask for help, they could help us. I really wish more people would join me.

reply to post by mystiq


I wish firstly that we could find these old men that run our lives, and then tell the masses who they are and what they've done, and then sit back and watch justice being dealt. ( my wish ).
Secondly if the visitors have offered help they aren't very good at actually 'giving help'.
There are lots of people who wish and pray and ask for help but no answer is ever given, apart from help comes to those that help themselves.

It seems the visitors ( no offense to Smokingman 'contacts' ) offer to show us the way then disappear in a puff of energy leaving us wondering where to go, with only a couple of cryptic nonsensical words as guidance.
Not much help is it?
no wonder we have to help ourselves first, but the question is where to start?
Seems we have to take one step at a time but it looks like we'll be walking in circles until 2012, then it will be too late..


Oh and to the poster ( forgot your name sorry ) who says we're peed off of Smokingman for having contact and not us being contacted, damn right I am , not at Smokingman though , these visitors have a message but what's the point if you bottle it and throw it into the sea of mystery?
Their the ones I'm peed of at, you have a message for me?
Give it to me as well as lot more people instead of a few individuals.

You want my help to change the world , point the way and I'll head there.

reply to post by blujay


At the risk of being accused of a personal attack, I feel compelled to say the following:

I have to say that I find your attitude offensive. Not that that will bother you.

I just look at it like this, why in the he** are they even here?

Well, why the h*ll are you here?

You’re not contributing to the thread at all!

These little sniping hit and run posts that you’ve made, sure in the knowledge you won’t see the responses to; very balanced and intelligent.

You’re helping the conversation no end.

I’m sure smokingman2006 is really pleased to have you on his side…

This is their egos that they can't put in the bags. Just the fact that you were contacted and not them, pisses them off.

So, let me get this right; I’m not allowed to form an opinion about this thread and back it up with argument and discussion, weathering criticism all the way, but you can form one about skeptics and stay hidden behind your ignore button?

Scratch what I said sarcastically about smokingman2006 not wanting you on his side; I’m real glad you are.

Deny the ignorants.

That should be ignoramuses, by the way.

blujay, you more than likely scream “sheeple” at your monitor from time to time.

What’s the definition of that term? Somebody who blindly follows?

Well, all I can suggest to you then is that you look in the mirror and say the following: Baaaaaah, baaaaahh, baaaaaaah.

Now if someone would kindly pass that along I’ll be very happy.

Edited to remove unneccesary remark


[edit on 26-2-2009 by Beamish]

Please everyone try and stay civil and calm........

Stick to the topic

attacking each other will really gain us no grounds.

Beamish & I have being locking keys since day one and are both able to parry on our own

reply to post by mystiq

This is not balanced!

Oh, but it is a balanced discussion. There are two sides to it, each with their own point of view. You believe smokingman2006, I don’t.

If we deliberately don’t hear both sides of a discussion, then we are not only arrogant, but potentially ignoring the opportunity of acquiring knowledge.

Man always travels along precipices. His truest obligation is to keep his balance.
Author: Pope John Paul II

I would send you a link to what a very good experience thread of over 100 pages looks like on another forum, which toes into ideas, many from other experiencers, even debates as to the nature or the ets, and whether or not they ets are being truthful, not even those on the thread, with many varied people wandering in.

With respect, that sounds like a support system more than a discussion forum.

This category on ATS should have been like that.

The Gray Area is a discussion forum that provides a dedicated area for members to post their confessions, disclosures, and related extraordinary personal experiences. Like the highly speculative Skunk Works forum, The Gray Area will tolerate topics that may be unusually hypothetical or unproven for the purpose of vetting the stories of thread-starters by the ATS membership at large.

Notice the word “vetting”?

vet…to appraise, verify, or check for accuracy, authenticity, validity, etc. To subject to thorough examination or evaluation…

dictionary.reference.com...

Sorry to be so pedantic, but I’m a little sick of skeptics being made to feel like they’re second class intellects.

SM should be able share that he is being visited

He is. The skeptical contingent aren’t stopping him, but offering their opinions.

This is the free world, isn’t it?

I am still allowed to do that, aren’t I?

reply to post by smokingman2006


Ok, read your last post and all I saw was another description of the New World Order. And the target figure they want to reduce our population to is 550,000,000, by the way. Simply changing an established story and crediting it to your “contacts” does not make your message any more believable.

When I stated that once all the events had passed and if we are lucky we would be reduced to 100 odd million has cause a lot of drama on this board what I did not mention is that if we follow the course we are on there will only be about 200 million of us left before this event in 2012.

So, let’s get this right: you’re saying that the NWO, or whatever version of that concept you’re offering, is going to wipe out the best part of the human race before 2012.

But even if we defeat these dastardly villains, we’re still going to get nearly wiped out by your “mass”.

So, either way, we’re history?

Thanks for cheering up my day smokingman2006. You really should read MrGreen’s new thread…

2 week from today then I am off to try and do my part to avoid this in the real world.

You’re going public? Or just on vacation?

reply to post by Beamish


Which is not how the grey area should be, that should be the other forums. Beamish, the grey area should be about discussing in detail the messages, not attacking the OP, but examining the messages and sharing ideas.

Edit to add: sorry I didnt' read your second post before I responded Beamish, but then you may find it amazing that there are many who believe that a great effort at depopulating us is beginning ASAP. Since one of my sense of mission involves gathering people and seeking safety this makes sense. Another message directly given me is that help will be coming, I do not know if it is for the world or for the survival groups. I know my soul is nordic, and that was shown me as well. I don't tell you this twisting your arm to believe, because these are things for me to understand as to why I was being woken up. I don't even know if I will survive, but out of body I have a pretty cool light body and a very big report to hand in apparently, so I leave these things in the hands of our helpers, but will take responsible action to help others every step of the way.

We're in serious trouble here, and even before a galactic body can be blamed, our leaders are the ones we need to see clearly for what they are.


[edit on 26-2-2009 by mystiq]

reply to post by mystiq


Actually, the Gray Area does specifically have an important vetting component associated with it. It isn't designed to be "hands off the OP", but it does most assuredly require adherence to the same T&C as any other forum - no personal attacks, civility & decorum, etc etc.

We fully expect the membership to pose questions to thread starters in the Gray Area, like they do in any other forum. As long as they're on-topic, civil, and follow the T&C.

The "point" of the Gray Area is to have a place to have the discussion about personal experiences for which tangible "proof", or even tangible evidence, will not be available. Therefore, repeated calls for PROOFPROOFPROOF will not be looked upon as keeping in the guidelines of the forum. Off-topic, if you will.

For the record, I as a staff person and forum moderator think Beamish has done a yeoman's job in this thread and serves as a very good example on how to disagree without being disagreeable.


Sorry for the sidebar, and carry on...

I believe that many here are from somewhere else, if not everyone, and that many are on mission. We just need to wake up more. From the things others have discussed and what some of my friends share, many have memories of the great disaster, the great deluge, or Atlantis, Lemuria, Mars.
What is alarming to me is that this was a time of war, battles, possibly cosmic disasters and great depopulation. That these are the memories that keep coming up is not comforting to me, its a full circle kind of thing. I think these memories are a wake up call to make changes.


[edit on 26-2-2009 by mystiq]

[edit on 26-2-2009 by mystiq]

Dear SmokingMan,
I am very interested in the message that you have to share. I follow this thread form the beginning. I read only your posts, as I don't even have the time and willingness to read other posts, not to mention the negative posts. I just skip them as I am only interested in the message that you were allegly given.
I personaly don't and can't know if your contact is true, although I personally bealive it is. It is worth investigating and listening to it in my opinion.
Please share more of the contact experience and information given to you before you leave the message board.
Are you leaving for a long time ? Will you be back ?
I recall that you said that the planet X will be visible with the naked eye in april 2009. That event would prove somewhat to us and to yourself that the message you are given is true. Can you elaborate on the visibility of the planet ? What part of the sky will it be visible in? Near the sun? At sun rise? Sundawn? Mayby at night only? I would like to know that as to instantly verify the phisical claim of the visibility of the planet, so as everyone can verify it for oneself.
As for the current human situation let us do the best we can to help this world and everyone that we have contact with. We've got to stick together to make this beautiful place better!
In harmony,
Luke
PS. Don't be discouraged by the disbealivers and know-it-all's. Whoever is interested in your message will at least ignore their rambling. Keep a cool head as you do most of the time.

[edit on 26-2-2009 by LukaszMrowka]