Why must you insist reality is illusion?

page: 1
11
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join

posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 02:54 AM
link   
Conversely, how can a dimension (whether dream state, matrix-esque or whatever
) be more 'real' than the space me and you occupy right now?

Furthermore, what does the word 'illusion' actually mean?

If you are developing a philosophy that determines and discerns 'illusion' I would love to have this explained to me.

Many thanks


[edit on 2008/9/14 by SteveR]




posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 03:42 AM
link   
Good question. It's high time somebody provided a few answers to this.

From the various manifestations of the so-called 'perennial philosophy' to the visions of all mystics, from the Vedas and Plato all the way up to the gimcrack contrivances of Scientology, people have forever been telling us that the world we live in is an illusion, we're all asleep, dreaming, amnesiac, etc. Some people even invoke science, telling us that the 'real' world is just empty space thinly populated with atomic nuclei and orbiting electrons or a froth of quantum events that is essentially incomprehensible to us.

I say fiddlesticks. As far as we are concerned, the realest of realities is the one we perceive.

If anything, it is we, not the world, that are the illusion.

[edit on 14-9-2008 by Astyanax]



posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 03:48 AM
link   
Good question? Was it a good question? Let us assume that it is a good question. Did that good question come from your finger tips? Does your hand know how to prepose a good question? No? Well was it not your fingertips that punched the keys that typed the question? I assume you used your hands. Did not the question, if my assumption is correct, come from your hands? No? Then where?

Your good question came from your head? Why would you use your head to type the question? Oh, your brain told your fingertips to punch the keys? Were you awake? Are you alive? If you were "dead" would you have been able to type the question from your head with your fingertips?

The consciousness within you "body" is electrical impulse. You are under the illsuion that you are the physical being that you inhabit.



posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 03:51 AM
link   
reality is actually duality. Most people subscribe to the big bang theory. But before this theory was ever formally established, my ancestors passed down knowledge that we were once all connected, and that life flows in a cycle. At one point again we will all be connected again.

Taking this into account along with my own interpretation of entanglement, I can sense that everything is still connected. When the big bang occured, the reality of everything became disconnected, into a duality.

Reality is an illusion because what your mind perceives as a computer, is actually more nothing than it is something. There is more space between the atoms that make up the computer than actual mass.

Everything is made up of electromagnetic energy and it simply vibrates at different frequencies.

a dimension can be more real when you are fully immersed. I find that maintaining a strong root in REALITY is essential for staying sane when you learn to navigate the depths of your own mind. There is a connection between your mind and everything contained in this universe and perhaps others as well.

There are many routes to take to expand your consciousness and fully immerse yourself into any dimension you choose to go to.

Many would argue that psychedelic drugs are detrimental to conscious expansion, however those that take this stance have probably not ever tried them.

In my experience and opinion, natural psychedelics are an efficient and fast route amongst many that allows you to access the universe inside yourself which is similar to a scaled down version of the real thing, if you know what I mean. Psychedelics are a tool like a hammer. You can bash your head in, irresponsibly, or you can build a beautiful house with it. Its all in what kind of person you are and how much self/mind control you have.

This duality is an illusion because it is what we interpret as reality. We see a small fraction of the entire electromagnetic spectrum. We often say that seeing is believing, but what we are seeing is an optical illusion.

We experience the physical reality of a door, yet the atoms that compose the door are simply vibrating at an extremely low frequency barring us entry to the other side.

In the quantum world, there is no door. There are particles and waves of energy and mostly empty space. mostly empty space.

We see a door, but under an electron microscope there is really nothing there. Atoms yes, but the particles that make them up are both particles and waves of energy at the same time.

our reality is simultaneously connected and disconnected at the same time, this illusion allows us to grow and learn as higher beings using a human body as a spaceship. Thats my take

[edit on 9/14/2008 by iiinvision]



posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 04:08 AM
link   
OK...it's 259AM MDT and I have just enough of a buzz to say ...this: I can no better quantify reality vs. illusion than I can Reality vs. Dream, OK?

Quantum mechanics, string theory...none of them can explain how it is that I can awaken from a dream within a dream within a dream (and believe me, it has gone much deeper) and in levels below this "reality" have brought back physical objects from the "dream world" that I was dreaming before I woke up in "this world".

It confounds me.

I wouldn't say that I am insistent upon saying that this reality is an illusion, but I CAN say, without reservation, that I live a very rich "alternate" life in "dreams" that I do not begin to comprehend.

As a matter of fact, I'm gonna start a thread to see if there are any freaks like me who have experienced a dream "symbol" that I can't find referenced anywhere...

That Thread will be called "Unicycle".



posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 04:14 AM
link   
perhaps what is illusion if reality is not absolute, and since reality is NOT
absolute as of now, is the consistency of illusion absolute?

...as far as dimensionality through psychadelics, is it the psychadelic
that is taking you thrugh that gateway, or is it your self?

like the fingers typing this post, is it the mind, or is the mind the typing finger,
but then is it from consciousness, perhaps even consciousness is the typing finger,
then where, perhaps back to the soul, is the soul actually singular or part of
a singularity?

did love type these words?

think about every time someone has a conversation with you,
perhaps it is only you playing many different roles in this 'reality'
to allow you conscious knowledge in different formats that an
individual may not clearly see without these reflectors.

imagine between your temples, the mind is a vast frequency transmitter
and these frequencies are bouncing off anyone and everyone, and the more
clarity and focus and realization one has within this comprehension, the greater
the message, more precise and productive the reaction. Yet, not only balanced
reaction, imbalanced reaction as well, anything that might trigger your Self into
action, for it is you, you know your Self, why not use all your own tricks, right?

it is you, right?

are you, you?

i is i, am is am, i am.

so what is illusion, is illusion what one does not comprehend but sees,
well what is sight if not just a multidimensional facet of how to perceive, right?

where one may see a ghost or alien, one may have the insight of a ghost
or alien, or one may see into a ghost or alien, or perhaps this ghost or alien
sees you, and this is a separate perception, an extra sensory perception capability,
not an illusion whatsoever unless dismissed as such, and then the belief structures
that go along with your dismissal create the barrier to your own capable
experiential knowledge.

so what is illusion if not only optical?

well what is that angle of perception attempting to teach you,
and if so how far can this tangent take you?

see in to every aspect of existence all your questions have answers,
sometimes at you, sometimes through you, sometimes with you,
sometimes against you, but always knowledge.

multidimensionally, we are being taught,
am i really typing this...



posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 08:23 AM
link   

Originally posted by SteveR
Conversely, how can a dimension (whether dream state, matrix-esque or whatever
) be more 'real' than the space me and you occupy right now?
[edit on 2008/9/14 by SteveR]


You and I don't occupy the same space. That's the answer. Reality is the illusion of common experience. No matter how similar our circumstances they will never be exactly the same because we are not exactly the same.

[edit on 14-9-2008 by TravelerintheDark]



posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 10:01 AM
link   
I think this covers it all pretty well:

Part1:


Part2:


[edit on 14-9-2008 by vasaga]



posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 10:34 AM
link   
reply to post by Incarnated
 


Correction:

electro-CHEMICAL. The term consciousness is just another way of saying self-aware, look it up. Consciousness is not just one "thing", it is actually composed of various system functions of the brain which operate completely through electro-chemical processes. Without the chemical component of the brain, you wouldn't have consciousness, you wouldn't have emotions, you wouldn't have anything.

So, in essence, you ARE the physical being you inhabit, because without those physical processes going on to power the brain and the electrical signals that propagate through it, you would be dead. Religious people are under the ignorant illusion that consciousness is only one thing and that this one thing exists outside the body in some undetectable, unobservable, unexplainable realm of mumbo jumbo.

To the OP, the world isn't an illusion, the only illusion that exist is people's capacity for ignorance. Ignorance doesn't actually exist, only laziness does. The laziness of actually learning something which leads to the illusion of ignorance.



posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 10:41 AM
link   
The world is a series of interpretations.


The world is most certainly NOT an illusion, those who believe that are living in either ignorance, or bathing in a lot of new age propoganda.

Illusion = An erroneous perception of reality.

So if we have no reality to base our comparisons between what is real and the 'altered reality or illusion', then that's like saying a balloon isn't a balloon, it's a trapped pocket of oxygen, gravity and invisible matter.
Of course it's a balloon!

The world is very real my friend, it's just that some of us see it in very different ways.



posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 10:48 AM
link   
reply to post by Incarnated
 



And this shows what believing in illusions rather than reality does to ppl's brain. Remember that annoying overly used commercial.. "this is your brain... this is your brain on drugs"? THis is their brain. This is their brain submitting to illusions."

~ sincerly, justamomma's fingers



posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 10:48 AM
link   
It is one of those things you have to experience to understand. Until you see it, it is faith or imagination. Sort of like describing the color red to a blind person, or an orgasm to one that has never experienced one. All the talking in the world means nothing until it is experienced. But if a lot of great minds have said basically the same thing, an intelligent person would think "hmmmmm" even if they themselves have not yet experienced it.



posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 11:01 AM
link   

Originally posted by mr-lizard
The world is a series of interpretations.


The world is most certainly NOT an illusion, those who believe that are living in either ignorance, or bathing in a lot of new age propoganda.

Illusion = An erroneous perception of reality.

So if we have no reality to base our comparisons between what is real and the 'altered reality or illusion', then that's like saying a balloon isn't a balloon, it's a trapped pocket of oxygen, gravity and invisible matter.
Of course it's a balloon!

The world is very real my friend, it's just that some of us see it in very different ways.






The world, including us, is also 99.9% empty space...



posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 11:28 AM
link   


The world, including us, is also 99.9% empty space...


Prove it.... that statistic seems awfully made up.



posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 12:41 PM
link   
Why is everyone so lazy to do some research themselves? This is something that is commonly known you know?

The "volume" of the atom is determined by the probable locations of the electrons around the nucleus. The volume of an atom or the outer part where the electrons are located (roughly 1 angstrom, or 10^-10 m in diameter) is about 15 orders of magnitude larger than the volume of the nucleus (roughly 1 fm, or 10^-15 m in diameter). Therefore it would be 99.9999999999999% (13 nines after the decimal point) empty space.

But besides that, an atom is not a "marble". Matter is actually based on nothing. Matter itself is also completely intangible or what you might call a wave. It's nothing more than wave of potentials that behave like something solid. You want proof of this too? Fine.. Here it comes:

www.youtube.com...



posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 12:58 PM
link   
reply to post by Sonya610
 


What about absence/petit mal? Its no good looking at the symptoms - to the observer the person having the experience is 'spaced out' or 'day dreaming' thats lasts about 30 secs or so. To the receiver its something else. From my own experience: i cant recall what has happended around me in the real time world - you are in a trance, sometimes deep thought so deep you are disconnected from the world around you. Sometimes you feel s though you have had a revealtation and understand the meaning to life, but then cant recall however much you wish you could. Its someting i would love to know more about. People throughout history have had this ilness and and its still not very well understood even now. It has also been attributed to some famous people 'religious awakenings'



posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 12:58 PM
link   



The world, including us, is also 99.9% empty space...


Empty...?
Surely you mean your human eyes perceive it as empty?
There is no "emptiness" in space.



posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 01:04 PM
link   
reply to post by mr-lizard
 


Heh, it is as much a fact as can be within the scientific community that the space between molecules makes up the greatest part of matter.

www.pa.msu.edu...

Google link

So yeah, you, me, the pc you are sitting in front of and the chair you are sitting at is just .0~1 percent less space than space itself. I don't think they even found matter yet in solid objects.

Oh and while this reality may be an illusion doesn't make a real difference because of that is the case and everybody is just spacing out so to speak we are spacing out together and you are still working with individual shards of consciousness, so somebody getting his feelings hurt is still very real on whatever objective REALLY real reality you look at it.

It would be different if it was a illusion where you are the only real person around but that is not the case at the moment. (i think)



posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 01:10 PM
link   

Originally posted by Harman
It would be different if it was a illusion where you are the only real person around but that is not the case at the moment. (i think)


If you were the only "real" person would you really want to know?

I guess I find it quite useful. It gives me something to do while I'm breathing


[edit on 14-9-2008 by TravelerintheDark]



posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 01:20 PM
link   

Originally posted by AdAstra
Empty...?
Surely you mean your human eyes perceive it as empty?
There is no "emptiness" in space.
Uh.. Our human eyes perceive the world as being solid, except for air ofcourse which we do see as empty. I'm talking at a fundamental level here.

And ofcourse there is "emptiness". But empty is not equal to "nothing". When your glass is empty, it still has air in it, when your atom is empty, it still has intangible energy in it. The concept of "Nothing" can not be explained, since when you try to explain it, you're already making it something. So, when we say something is empty, emptiness is actually something, therefore not nothing... Never mind..





new topics
top topics
 
11
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join